Today SAG president Alan Rosenberg hand-delivered this letter to AFTRA's national office in Los Angeles for his counterpart at AFTRA, Roberta Reardon, asking to hold a 2-hour official SAG-AFTRA debate. I'm all for it -- as long as there's a wrestling ring, gooey mud, and blind referees. Unfortunately for me, Reardon turned down the offer:
Dear Roberta,
In light of the fact that SAG and AFTRA members are receiving conflicting information regarding the tentative AFTRA agreement and its impact on SAG’s ongoing negotiations, we believe it would be informative and productive to hold an official SAG/AFTRA debate as soon as possible.
I am specifically requesting that we schedule a joint membership meeting over the next week for members in Los Angeles, at which we discuss and debate the facts. I hope you agree that it would be productive for members to hear directly from both of their unions.
SAG welcomes the opportunity to have a full and frank discussion with our members present. We are proposing a 2-hour event, with you, Matt Kimbrough, David Jolliffe and me. We would agree on a moderator, perhaps someone from the Los Angels County Federation of Labor or the Department of Professional Employees (DPE) would be appropriate.
Please let me know as soon as possible if you agree that a timely debate focused on issues and actors, not personalities or institutions, is worthwhile, and what dates and times work for AFTRA.
In solidarity,
Alan Rosenberg
And Roberta Reardon answered back:
Dear Alan:
I received your letter today inviting AFTRA to participate in a “2-hour event” with the Screen Actors Guild, where we would “debate” the terms and conditions of the tentative AFTRA primetime television agreement. The alleged impetus for this invitation is SAG Hollywood leadership’s belief that our respective members may be receiving “conflicting information” and that the AFTRA agreement is having an “impact on SAG’s ongoing negotiations.”
As you are aware, the AFTRA National Board overwhelmingly approved the tentative agreement we reached with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers and we are currently in the ratification process. AFTRA does not believe there is anything about this process that is distracting either SAG or the industry from good faith negotiations, nor do we believe that it has any impact on the ongoing talks. Further, we feel your request is somewhat disingenuous as a public debate would have no real practical purpose. All it would do is contribute to the destructive and divisive efforts of the last year instigated by the guild’s Hollywood leadership.
What is distracting and confusing for our members – and frankly, many in the entertainment industry – are SAG’s efforts to interfere with AFTRA’s ratification process. SAG’s misguided rhetoric and theatrics – holding rallies, town hall meetings, and the distribution of misinformation about the AFTRA contract – are certainly not serving the best interests of performers.
AFTRA, like the Directors Guild and the Writers Guild before it, has negotiated a solid agreement that delivers substantial improvements in wages and working conditions for all of our members.
We are proud of the deal and those who were directly involved with the negotiations are
educating AFTRA members about the merits of the Exhibit A contract. Given all of this, we decline your invitation.As a fellow labor leader and a dues-paying SAG member, I urge SAG to focus solely on its own negotiations, rather than wasting the time, energy and resources trying to undermine the new AFTRA contract.
In solidarity,
Roberta Reardon
National President
I think there should be a court order banning them from using the words “In Solidarity” because there is no solidarity going on at all.
AFTRA appears to be positioning itself as the last union standing by the virtue of having a contract, any contract. SAG’s is acting like someone who caught their husband in bed with their mortal enemy, and is too busy trying to scold the husband they’re not seeing that their mortal enemy is sneaking up behind them with a garrotte!
It’s supposed to be business, but it’s become a soap-opera.
My solution: THUNDERDOME!
Two unions enter, one union leave.
We could sell tickets, and pay-per-view rights.
Comment by Furious D — June 16, 2008 @ 6:40 pm
I oppose the war against AFTRA because I love SAG.
I speak out against this war, not in anger, but with sorrow in my heart,
and, above all, with a passionate desire to see our beloved Screen Actors Guild stand as a fine example of unionism.
I speak out against this war because I am disappointed with SAG,
and there can be no great disappointment where there is not great love.
I am disappointed with SAG’s failure to deal positively and forthrightly in negotiations with management.
We are presently moving down a dead-end road that can lead to disaster.
SAG has strayed to the far country of negativism and the politics of division,
and this unnatural excursion has brought only confusion and bewilderment to our members.
It has left minds distorted with irrationality.
It is time for all members of conscience to call upon SAG to come back home.
Come home, SAG.
Comment by Tom Ligon — June 16, 2008 @ 6:42 pm
Beggars can’t be choosers or run unions
Comment by blackball gavin — June 16, 2008 @ 6:48 pm
Of course they don’t want to discuss this crappy deal openly with people in the room who actually want to analyze it. They’re behaving like 13 year olds given too much control over something. They know if that contract is brought out into the light it’s gonna shine through it like swiss cheese.
Comment by AFTRA Amateurs — June 16, 2008 @ 6:50 pm
These idiots don’t ever give up. I guess the “anti-AFTRA” rally didnt generate the support he had hoped for, so now a debate??? That would be appropriate if they were running for office. When has a labor ever debated the merits of their contract with an outside? That is just stupid and absurd. He knew that proposal would be declined, I guarantee the next thing he says is the contract sucks and thats why she wont debate me (how predictable). But none of it helps SAG negotiate a deal with the AMPTP. As long as SAG is preoccupied with AFTRA, it will distract from their negotiations with the AMPTP (assuming there are any negotiations going on).
It is really looking like SAG’s whole negotiating strategy was “threaten a strike”. Now that they realize that a strike isn’t a realistic option, instead of seriously negotiating with the AMPTP plan B is harrass AFTRA. Let’s see what kind of deal that gets ya…
(and im not a shill, anybody with half a brain can see this is not going to end well for SAG)
Comment by SAG is doomed — June 16, 2008 @ 7:06 pm
what is the point of a debate? Roberta is right SAG has to tend their contract stop making this all about AFTRA. They have a deal, its time you got one as well
Comment by John — June 16, 2008 @ 7:07 pm
Oh
My
God
This travesty of union leadership that is SAG has just gone from bad to worse. I thought they were supposed to be debating the AMPTP? This smacks of desperation, as if they can’t win the battle with the AMPTP with their own poorly prepared presentation, they can only hope that the AFTRA contract gets voted down. A losers strategy to be sure. I’m hoping this is the bottom for this group, cause then they’ll start to rise again. But somehow I doubt it.
Comment by scott — June 16, 2008 @ 7:11 pm
does this mean that when the features and Television are shot on digital format, AFTRA actors can be used since AFTRA has a deal for all new media?
Comment by betty — June 16, 2008 @ 7:24 pm
Reardon said: nor do we believe that [our contract and ratification] has any impact on the ongoing talks.
What planet is she living on where she thinks her contract covering acting work has no impact on SAG’s contract covering acting work.
I wish I could sit back and laugh at all of this but it seems to me that AFTRA is taking this opportunity to try to grab as much of the acting pie as possible and praying that in the future they can work a better deal on what they get. Meanwhile it’s the actors who are going to be hurting in the short and probably long term.
Comment by Eitan — June 16, 2008 @ 7:29 pm
Wow. People’s lives and careers hang in the balance, and SAG wants to have a debate…how about pistols at 20 paces, for fuck’s sake? are they serious? get da fuck outta here..ran into an aftra board member at an audition..I was urged to vote yes on the proposals..I almost laughed in the board member’s face..reardon runs from the building to avoid briefing SAG..now SAG wants to do a deathmatch, with all of us in attendance..and..oh..there’s the sound of another actor/writer/director/BTL’er etc, losing their homes to foreclosure…fuck, I don’t have july rent myself..and SAG wants to debate..LOL..can we recall these motherfuckers and get someone else in there?..I’ve had enough of both SAG and AFTRA. you both suck.
Comment by VOguy — June 16, 2008 @ 7:45 pm
What in the heck is little Alan up to? Can’t get a strike authorization. Can’t deliver on his campaign promises. Can’t get a rally at 5757 without calling out the paid staff. He wants to get Roberta in the room so his rowdies can yell and scream? And little David, the chair of his negotiating committee hasn’t been on camera since 2000? What ‘cha smokin’ Alan?
Comment by Valedictorian — June 16, 2008 @ 8:44 pm
Why in god’s name are actual actors (or writers or directors) the primary (and apparently only) negotiators for the unions? We’re freaking show people. Our expertise isn’t contracts, labor negotiations, or business dealings. The AMPTP doesn’t send the director of development, they send professional attack dogs whose expertise is in breaking the other side of the table. Whereas we send day players and sitcom writers. Does anyone else think this is insane? No wonder we get our asses kicked every time.
Comment by Josh — June 16, 2008 @ 8:48 pm
This sounds like high school. Membership First shot their wads and now is time to clean up. Prediction come July first the producers will declare a lock out and will sign AFTRA contracts. Remember the air traffic controllers.
Comment by just a thought — June 16, 2008 @ 9:40 pm
Another dumbass publicity stunt by the Allens. Negotiate a bleeping contract already, and let us earn money under the one AFTRA already has done.
The Allens are morons…
Comment by T. Obvious — June 16, 2008 @ 10:03 pm
I hate you AFTRA. I stopped paying my dues and never will work an AFTRA contract again. You all can have your shitty AFTRA shows and shitty AFTRA contracts. Actors that vote yes on this contract should be screened for retardation. You just want to work so badly that you’ll take a deal that will kill your profession in the long run? Way to go, AFTRA actor. How did you even get in AFTRA? Years of being a professional, working actor? No? You just ponied up the initiation fee and threw the words AFTRA on your resume? Cool. You’re cool. I think not only should Alan fight Roberta, but all SAG members should fight all AFTRA members. And joint card holders can just smack themselves around a bit.
Comment by angryman — June 16, 2008 @ 10:08 pm
As a fourth-degree NFL (that’s National Forensic League) in high school, I would enjoy such a debate. Too bad Ms. Reardon turned it down.
Still, a debate of some sort is a possibility. Anyone active on some of the actor forums knows Tom Ligon’s name. Maybe Tom or another of the advocates of the proposed AFTRA deal would like to take on an opponent of the AFTRA deal online. There are free websites where we could host such a discussion like livevideo.com. Anyone who couldn’t log on live could grab the video or audio files later. There are all sorts of free sites for that, too. We would just need to arrange a time and a location with a broadband connection, and agree on a moderator.
Comment by mheister — June 16, 2008 @ 10:10 pm
THUNDERDOME. good idea.
Comment by keven — June 16, 2008 @ 10:17 pm
I’m S-O-O-O-O disappointed not to be able to see those cute, fuzzy little guys in the faux Hells Angels’ jean jackets who do door guard-duty at SAG meetings, lookin’ all mean & humorless, doing kind of a Sonny Barger, “you starin’ at me?!” kind of thing at the members in the room. I’ll so miss the outraged howling and caterwauling that would have erupted from the floor at AFTRA Staff & actor/negotiators for having the audacity to claim that AFTRA’s Primetime Contract brings positive gains to actors: 10.33% gains in scale for day-players; 13% gain for actors in major roles; Solid internet jurisdiction at SAG terms direct from W&W; Held the line on clips for actors = SAG proposal; 5% increase in the number of background roles.
I’ll so miss the chance to strike again just like in 2000, see old friends, get free doughnuts, and shut the town down again, because I can, and what the hell difference does it make anyway? Hey, I’m a licensed Realtor with a Guild card!
I’m so depressed about the fact that we won’t have our own SAG/AFTRA Thunderball, Extreme Cage Fighting, blood-on-the-walls debate that I’m just going to have to vote “Yes” on the AFTRA contract…because I can.
Comment by Ichbinaucheinwerkungactor — June 16, 2008 @ 11:42 pm
Jeez, SAG. Let it go. You have debate and negotiating that needs to be done - with AMPTP, not f*&king AFTRA.
Turning your attention to AMPTP would at least provide an illusion of progress toward your contract goals as opposed to the continuing bitchfest with AFTRA that only confirms that none is being made.
Comment by Harold — June 16, 2008 @ 11:48 pm
The AFTRA ‘contract’ as reported quite obviously leaves its rank and file membership hanging on its own on issue after issue. Yes, Reardon, and her cronies, decided to protect their jobs by selling out her membership. Yes, they used obviously false reasons to back away from SAG. It was part and parcel of a clear strategy to expand AFTRA by undermining SAG’s jurisdiction in television, and without having to do the hard work of actually organizing non union broadcast outlets that are AFTRA’s jurisdiction. But as galling as all that is, this focus on Reardon and AFTRA does SAG West no good. It convinces no one and just lets her pretend to have the high ground without looking like a delusional conwoman.
And while I think that a good case could be made for AFTRA members to overthrow Reardon and her crew, as well as vote down this contract, that isn’t Rosenberg’s job at the moment. He needs to stop picking at that scab and concentrate on moving negotiations along, solidifying his membership, and making a public case for his Union and their goals.
Comment by NY and way below the line — June 17, 2008 @ 2:45 am
I hope if this goes to a strike that we actors will have the guts to picket the big movie theatres in L.A. and shut down the summer movie season. That would really be a kick to the nuts that the studios are not prepared to counter.
AFTRA’s contract is a bag of shit. As a member, I’m deeply insulted at AFTRA leadership’s pretend sincerity: “The deal is great. Of course the deal is great. It’s unanimous! We negotiated long and hard! It’s comparable to the WGA and DGA deals!!!” As if we can’t smell their hysterical FEAR of the studio bosses? As if we can’t read and understand the goddamn thing ourselves? As if it’s not obvious that the WGA and DGA got scared for no good reason and caved in? (Why the fuck did the Oscars need to happen? Total Jedi mind trick there.)
Everybody stock up on cheap food and bicycles and get ready to demonstrate at The Arclight and The Grove. Torpedo the AMPTP. Let it be known that we’ll negotiate with each studio separately. Let’s stop being scared of these bastards! Time to slay some dragons!
Comment by actorjames — June 17, 2008 @ 3:09 am
This just gets better and better. Next up: The Lockout!
Comment by Michael F. Workman — June 17, 2008 @ 5:09 am
SAG, you are in your 30th or so day of negotiations and the contract is up in less than 2 weeks….FOCUS ON YOUR OWN CONTRACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Signed,
Longtime member of SAG and AFTRA
Comment by Cassie — June 17, 2008 @ 6:44 am
Don’t listen to the SHEEP. You deserve a fair deal and the pennies on a dollar you will be happy with and strike over isn’t nearly enough. They have nothing without you.
Comment by fartmanlives — June 17, 2008 @ 7:29 am
Just when you thought it couldn’t get sillier….
Rosenberg needs to do what every actor needs to do…back off, stop talking, and let his agent negotiate the contract.
Comment by a suit — June 17, 2008 @ 7:58 am
Let’s face it. A SAG strike will not benefit all of us. However, it will benefit many of us, especially the young. If you’ve got years of this work ahead of you then a strike will benefit you. If you’re like Tom Ligon and in your golden years then a strike will not benefit you. Look at the people AFTRA marched out to show who is in support of the AFTRA contract and who don’t want another strike. They are all in the twilight of their careers. If you’re a young actor, you would be stupid to accept the AFTRA contract and should vote it down. This will give SAG more leverage in their negotiations and you more money in the long run. This is NOT about SAG versus AFTRA but about the young versus the old.
If you’re like most of the union membership and you only earn a small amount from acting then you really don’t have a dog in this fight. However, you (like the swing vote on Survivor) have a lot of power. The SAG alliance and the AFTRA alliance are working hard for your vote. In the long run you have to decide who is stronger and which alliance will get you further along in the game - the union that covers 95% of the scripted and 100% of the feature film work or the union that undercuts the other union to get more work for its members at lower pay so they can build a union. It’s not about getting what is fair for AFTRA members. It’s about growing their union and gaining power.
Comment by Dual card holder — June 17, 2008 @ 8:09 am
It is really unbelievable to me the idiocy of the “AFTRA Cheerleader” comments here. AFTRA F***ed actors in general when they decided, moments before negotiations, to negotiate without SAG because, “sniffle, sniffle, SAG wasnt’ nice to me, and threw sand in my eyes in the sandbox”…cry me a f***ing river, it isnt about your personal politics, this is about ACTORS livlihoods. Duke it out on your own PRIVATE time ROBERTA AND ALAN, you are screwing with our livlihoods here. And it blows me away that ACTORS are actually joining in this childish debate making their self identity around a union rather than around their individuality as an ACTOR. If the AFTRA board really cared about ACTORS, and not their independant longevity as a union, they would have picked their fight in private, AFTER negotiations. THAT was the initial cardinal sin. I am not siding with SAG on this either - I simply think ROBERTA and her cronies should be hung for picking thier fight LITERALLY MOMENTS BEFORE JOINT NEGOTIATIONS WERE TO BEGIN. PEOPLE - if you are going to pick a loyalty - be loyal to yourself….now someone in this personality war! OF COURSE AFTRA has reached a deal already!!! They bent over and sold ACTORS out, how difficult is THAT??? What kind of accomplishment is that??? What about that is there to be proud of? Where is your independance people - you are so glued to your image as an AFTRA member that you’ve lost your identity as an ACTOR???? Have you forgotten that the union is there to serve YOU, and not the other way around???? This has become like a school playground fight - with two leaders who hate each other, and everyone else standing around witn NO SELF IDENTITY - and so jumping to one side or another so they can say “this is who I am and I am part of a group who hates another group. Have you no independant identity as ACTORS? How many of the “we love AFTRA, we love AFTRA” chanters here have considered SAG’s dealpoint memo addressing AFTRA’s “wonderful” contract??? Honestly - it isn’t about “I am AFTRA” or “I am SAG”, it is about “I AM AN ACTOR, AND I WANT A GREAT CONTRACT, REGARDLESS OF WHO IS PROPOSING IT” How many attended the meetings to learn more about this, about both sides of this debate? How many attended the meetings of BOTH unions??? How can you consider yourselves well informed if you don’t honestly consider both sides? How many idiots go out and vote for president without seeing a debate between candidates so they actually KNOW who is proposing what? How many of you “we love AFTRA” whiners are actually ***DUAL CARD HOLDERS***? I AM. I don’t give a damn about who said what, or whose feelings got hurt, etc, this is about ACTORS - not the petty emotional schoolyard personal bullshit between the personalities on both union boards.
I AM A DUAL CARD HOLDER, and as a dual cardholder - I will be voting this crappy AFTRA contract DOWN. And NOT becuase I am a SAG LOVER and AFTRA HATER. I am not - I don’t love one union over the other - I am LOVER OF ACTING AND ACTORS. I am not a fan AT ALL of the current SAG Board - I’d sooner spend a night in prison than at dinner with them - but thats personal - this is business. Nor am I a fan of the AFTRA boardmembers. I was at the meetings - ALL OF THEM, I’ve done the homework, I have thoughtfully considered BOTH sides viewpoints, and contracts / proposals. I am not a pathetic cheerleader of one of the unions becuase I have no other identity, I am not an ACTOR wannabe - I actually work, under BOTH unions contracts, my identity is not represented by either union’s acronym. I want a contract that protects my rights and secures the future of my livlihood….as….get this….an ACTOR. I DO NOT LIKE EITHER Roberta OR ALAN personally - but that is PERSONAL…this whole contract thing is BUSINESS….learn to separate these two things people.
Personalities aside, SAG does indeed have well reasoned points of contention regarding the AFTRA contract, ******* and AFTRA negotiators would be hung for treason if their actions were a matter of national allegiance. *******
AFTRA’s collective moves, first to split off and negotiate separately JUST BEFORE NEGOTIATIONS WERE TO BEGIN because “wah wah, we don’t like the people over at SAG - they stole our marbles”, and then to sell out with a purely crappy contract, are dispicable.
Trust me, if those of you here touting “we love AFTRA” are actually real AFTRA members, you had better be smart enough to first of all quit basing your allegiance on childish emotions, and actually do your research. This isn’t about taking sides - ACTORS SHOULD ALL BE ON THE SAME SIDE FOR GOD’S SAKE. Screw AFTRA and SAG, lets be ACTORS UNITED. Do you really care about one union over another, or do you care about YOUR CAREER??? Do you have an identity as an ACTOR independant of a union acronym? Becuase if you go down the road of placing your identity with a UNION rather than with ACTORS, and you ratify this AFTRA contract rather than one that is sound - you can go attend all the pro AFTRA or pro SAG pep rallies you can possibly find - especially down the road, becuase you wont have a career - you won’t be making enough money as an ACTOR to sustain yourselves - you’ll have all the time in the world to attend pep rallies in your cheerleaders outfit because you’ll be spending the rest of your spare time filling out applications to work at Walmart or waiting tables. The union members whose identity is more about their union than their profession are just as childish as both of these union boards - you are an ACTOR first, not an AFTRA actor vs a SAG actor. Pull your heads out of your collective asses, and do your due dilligence, research both sides’ points of view, don’t be so bullheaded in an effort to “belong” to a “side”, that you ratify a contract just to snub the “other snot nosed kid”. Your allegiance should be first and foremost to your profession and your fellow actors, not to picking a side in some petty kindergarten union personality fight. Consider the deal memo points from both unions - and decide WHICH you’d rather have as your contract, and what types of deal points and you want to have secured.
Comment by Unbelievable — June 17, 2008 @ 8:32 am
Of course AFTRA shouldn’t debate it’s contract.
There should be a debate, though. But only after SAG has finished it’s deal. Let’s see how they do. Only then can a fair debate be had over who has achieved the better contract. Anything else is speculation, posturing and a waste of time.
–Todd Waring
Comment by Todd Waring — June 17, 2008 @ 10:07 am
Now….I’ve….heard….EVERYTHING! What a debacle.
Comment by Anonymous — June 17, 2008 @ 10:25 am
All this vitriol about AFTRA’s “crappy” contract seems very odd indeed. AFTRA’s goal was apparently to get some gains, get some jurisdiction, and then get back to work during a time when there is less work than ever for professional, card carrying, entertainment union members.
This idea of a “strike for the future” seems awfully odd since every strike seems to give the people who actually write the checks more impetus to find a way to do business without the unions. The future you are striking for may simply be one where union membership is increasingly less relevant.
The anger, the drama of dueling unions, all of it is off the point. The point of a negotiation is to come up with a contract, the more you turn this into some kind of ideological battleground the more likely you are to kill your future, not secure it.
I’m just a suit, you can accuse me of being a shill if you like, but I have almost never seen a contract in any part of this business that anyone “loved” or that expressed a sense of “justice”. How could you? Contracts are nothing but a series of compromises that help everyone get on with the far more interesting activities of making television and movies.
Comment by a suit — June 17, 2008 @ 10:33 am
Im so sick of all this talk about that tonly the actors are at jeporady here. Thats complete BS
What about the production and stage staff who rely on that weekly paycheck and dont get paid anywhere close to what the actors do? How are they gonna survive another strike. People are losing their homes.
SAG Get a contract. Take the deal WGA/DGA and AFTRA did. Its not the best but you never get all what you want. Its called compromise. If it was good enough for the writers etc, its damn good for you
Comment by John — June 17, 2008 @ 10:56 am
Let’s call a spade a spade.
Now it is 5% increase in BG numbers. No, it is 1 extra slot for the whole 3 year contract.
AFTRA has been bragging for years that except for where they had to negotiate alongside SAG they have wall to wall coverage for BG (Not really true) and that the only reason they have a cap on the Exhibit A is the fault of SAG.
So why couldn’t they get more slots now? Why for that matter did they get 66% less slots then they did on the last contract where they were hampered by SAG.
Comment by Yosemite Stokesberry — June 17, 2008 @ 11:36 am
Are you kidding me? Less than two weeks away from the contract expiring and Alan wants to play Red Rover with AFTRA? Two words, Alan: stay focused. It’s already clear that you aren’t going to get the dream contract that SAG members deserve. The best you can do at this point is to minimize how many negatives you’ll have to agree to. It sucks that this is the case, but it is. Deal with it. Requesting a debate on another union’s contract serves only to make you look petty and foolish. Not the best way to present yourself during a negotiation.
Comment by andthentherewassag — June 17, 2008 @ 11:38 am
Josh, you are absolutely correct. The AMPTP will continue to have a decided advantage until that changes. Unfortunately, no one wants to give up their cushy union job, so they continue in the position they know they are not qualified for and blow smoke up membership’s collective asses blaming any and everybody else for their failures.
AMPTP is going to continue to exploit the weak union leadership until the union members have the courage to acknowledge the defiencies in house and address them. (unfortuantely, too many people blindly follow whatever the union says without educating themselves). For comparison, identify some of the strong unions in this country and look at how they are run compared to this mess.
Comment by Time to make changes — June 17, 2008 @ 12:05 pm
Before and during the WGA strike, 98% of this site was pro WGA. Judging by the responses to this post, SAG is running at about 26%. Congratulations SAG leadership, you’ve got less of an approval rating than George Bush. Nicely done.
Comment by Anonymous — June 17, 2008 @ 1:11 pm
holy wall of text Unbelievable TLDR
Comment by RealityBites — June 17, 2008 @ 2:25 pm
If there is a strike/lockout and the TV season is cut short again with further audience erosion the only thing that will be left to negotiate is how big a pay cut. Less audience = less money and even less likely for the corporations to shell out more money.
Comment by Brian — June 17, 2008 @ 3:43 pm
Is this a joke? In the middle of negotiations is the president of my union concerning himself with debating AFTRA instead of getting the membership a contract and avoiding a strike? How in God’s name did this man, Alan Rosenberg, get elected to this position? Is he taking lessons in diplomacy from George Bush? Please, how long is it going to take to undo the havoc this man is about to wreak on SAG. I am beside myself at the way this behavior!
Comment by Mark Pinter — June 17, 2008 @ 4:04 pm
I can’t wait to stiff every waiter/sag member in town. You don’t wan’t qualified voting? Then experience the rath of btl’rs who are sick and tired of non working people screwing around with working peoples livelihoods. If I’m hurting because of your insanity then you will hurt.
Comment by not going to tip — June 17, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
Okay, I’m a dual card holder and like most I’m frustrated. I don’t want this town to shut down again. Is it me but AFTRA is bragging about a ten percent increase in minimums 3.5,3.0, 3.5 over span of the contract yet inflation is currently at 4.08 percent.
How is that not a rollback? The contract didn’t do much to help BG or stand-in’s either, isn’t the union to fight for all members on the food chain? In fact shouldn’t they fight harder for those more marginalized actors? I’m also concerned that many AFTRA members who are news anchors and weathermen will get to vote on our contract–yet we actors are precluded from voting on their contracts, how many of them will look at it from working actor point of view vs.the “looks good to me, I’ll vote yes”. Finally, as much as I’m a fan of James Cromwell and Sally Field as actors, I’d love to know what the last AFTRA contract they worked under. It’s easy to say VOTE YES when you never have to worry about working under that contract.
Comment by Marc — June 17, 2008 @ 4:27 pm
Comment from Marc: “Finally, as much as I’m a fan of James Cromwell and Sally Field as actors, I’d love to know what the last AFTRA contract they worked under. It’s easy to say VOTE YES when you never have to worry about working under that contract.”
AMEN…..THANK YOU!
Comment by AMEN to Marc — June 17, 2008 @ 5:59 pm
I believe James and Sally have worked under an AFTRA contract. Sally does more than just Brothers and Sisters which i know is SAG
Look this whole thing is screwed up now. The best thing to do is compromise. Yes SAG and AFTRA wanted the same things in the beginning and probably still do but the difference that AFTRA stuck out its negoiating and didnt walk away for weeks like SAG did. If SAG had stayed maybe things could have been different probably not though.
Anytime anything is new, producers dont want to give up too much to start so compromise has to come into play. SAG needs to let AFTRA vote their contract and worry about SAG. There are 11.5 days until June 30yj. A deal can still happen,hopefully it does
Oh, Mark Pinter, I totally echo your comments and you are a great actor and I hope to see you on daytime again some day
Comment by John — June 17, 2008 @ 6:15 pm
To all the BTL’ers like “NOT GOING TO TIP” above:
No one put a gun to your head and made you do what you do for a living. Actors and Writers did not negotiate your contracts for you, and without the writers - none of us would have a f***ing job. If your job is so miserable, or the pay isn’t what you want - DO SOMETHING ELSE - its a free country. Dont spit your venom and self hatred onto others who have chosen another profession - it is not their fault you have the contract you do, that you get paid what you get paid - nor is it their fault that you do something you apparently dont thing you get paid enough for. That’s your union’s job - talk to THEM. Writers, Actors, and everyone else for that matter - including BTL - have a RIGHT to ask for whatever they think is fair - they have a right to bargain, and negotiate, just like YOU DO. You cannot POSSIBLY believe that it is ok for you to ask actors to forego their rights to bargain and negotiate just because you are not happy with what you get paid! It’s OUR turn to bargain, STAND DOWN. We weren’t standing over you, breathing down your throat while your contracts were negotiated - threatening you at every turn….you got a problem with your pay rate? Get another job or talk to your union about it. Don’t blame it on another union doing what they have a right to do. Do you have any idea how long it takes to write a feature film script to completion? do you have any idea how many scripts actually get bought? Do you have any idea how many actors work EVERY DAY or EVERY WEEK like most of you do? Writers and Actors are not yelling at you to “quit your bargaining so we can work”. You are overstepping your bounds - BACK OFF.
Comment by RESPONSE TO BTL'ERS — June 17, 2008 @ 7:09 pm
First of all , NOTHING will happen with SAG and the AMPTP until after July the 7th. The day the whole industry finds out if the crappy AFTRA deal will set the tone for the future. You know the future right?
The one where actors can work union free with virtually no protections thanks to the new AFTRA deal.
Until then, why not debate? SAG is just getting dicked around by Nick Counter like the WGA did. If, God willing and common sense prevails, the AFTRA deal gets voted down, then SAG can proceed to try to get a better version of it. To protect us all.
AFTRA WILL NEVER STRIKE !!! A SAG strike will probably not be authorized by a membership full of Iatse members, agents, producers and casting directors. So the ONLY strike dual card holders like myself have is to vote NO on the AFTRA contract. Why wouldn’t you?
Peggy Lane O’Rourke
Comment by Peggy Lane O'Rourke — June 17, 2008 @ 7:36 pm
Peggy,
Nothing will happen until July 7th??? Why do you think that is? SAG has until June 30th before their contract expires to negotiate a deal (and they have had months prior). There is no deal, and I agree there will be no deal. Because SAG doesn;t know how to negotiate. SAG’s strategy the entire time was to wait until the last minute and threaten a strike, but didn’t have the foresight to realize their members would not be so eager to strike on the heels of the writers strike. What is plan B? Any competent negotiator (or leader) has backup plans in place. The best backup plan is to debate AFTRA??? Get the hell out of here. You think Nick Counter is dicking SAG around? Well why not? The jokers are basjing their heads against a wall trying to fight AFTRA, of course Nick Counter and the rest of the AMPTP is gonna dick them around and laugh at them as well. They look like fools!
I just want to understand, you think this is a good strategy? You think they should wait until July 7th? You think they should be debating AFTRA instead of trying to negotiate a deal???
Let me tell what will happen come July 7th…
AFTRA ratifies its contract. The studios are in full-fledge lockdown on SAG productions. Studios will continue to produce AFTRA shows, while SAG actors are out of work (again). I cannot tell you how the crackpots running SAG will react, but I can tell what the AMPTP will do… Let SAG sit on the sidelines until pressure from inside the union (actors who want to work) pressure leadership to accept a deal any deal. At that point, SAG will be lucky to get what AFTRA got. SAG better get smart real quick and NEGOTIATE now while they still some leverage to achieve something.
Comment by Wake up Peggy — June 17, 2008 @ 8:12 pm
@Wake up Peggy
If there is a lock out those sag shows will sign Aftra deals. I see it coming.
Comment by just a thought — June 17, 2008 @ 8:53 pm
Well maybe if SAG got it’s butt in and dealt with the studios first, none of this would be going on now. But no they kept fighting with AFTRA… And now they are pissed off that AFTRA got a deal first, forcing them to look bad. “Get over it, suck it up and move on”
Stop the damn inner fighting and make a damn deal. You strike SAG will be left to blame.
Yes, let’s strike because AFTRA’s deal is so bad you all don’t like it.
Yes, Let’s strike, when the economy is weak and Gas prices are almost $5.00 a gallon.
Yes, let’s strike and not care how this will hurt the industry more than the WGA strike did.
*shakes head*
Comment by Enough — June 17, 2008 @ 8:57 pm
To: “Wake Up Peggy”
You must be an AFTRA Negotiator - you shake, tremble, and sweat just like they do, at the mention of standing up for rights and holding firm. If you are a SAG member, you should be ashamed of your weakness.
Comment by Go To Sleep "Wake up peggy" — June 17, 2008 @ 9:17 pm
I hope AFTRA sucks it! They are assholes that obviously don’t care about their membership but only care about expanding their union.
Well, guess what? Actors don’t join a union thinking that it will make them great actors, they join the union because (they have to) and the intent is that their working rights and conditions will be protected. Well AFTRA isn’t performing any of those basic functions!
As screwed up as this whole debacle is, their contract is garbage - NY and Way Below the Line and Dual card holder: you’re so right on the money.
And for all you BTL’ers, I feel for you, I do. Honestly. But realize this: it’s not all about you right now. Here’s an idea - why don’t you take a page out of an actor’s book and go work as a waiter for a few months during the de-facto or actual strike. Then you can quit crying poverty.
Wait - what? That’s not good enough for you???? Oh, I get it. So if you’re out of work you’ll just sit around collecting unemployment insurance (does such a thing exist in the US?) and blame the actors for not having any “work” meanwhile, the actors will be busting their ass serving drinks, bringing food, walking dogs, fixing computers - and/or doing whatever else they usually will do between jobs.
Comment by Sag Supporter — June 17, 2008 @ 9:46 pm
In support of BTLer’s.
Most BTL’s from my experience enjoy their jobs. It’s hard work, and hard work seems to fit their mind set. Writers, Directors, & Actors depend on BTL’s whether some people choose to believe it, or not. Do the actors own the clothes they have to wear in the movies they are in? No, the wardrobe department does. They’re below the line. With the exception of NRA members, do most actors own the guns they shoot on screen? No, the prop person does. They’re below the line. How about the meals on the set, or snacks in between takes? I haven’t seen too many actors “brown bag it” lately. Catering is below the line. Choose to say that BTL’s whine, and that they should find another job somewhere else, and you’d certainly be asking for trouble. Actors can do small theater in Bigamy, UT. Writers don’t need to write movies, if they are true writers. Yes, BTL’s can find work elsewhere. Everyone else will have to learn how to do things on their own. Haha.
Comment by sam — June 17, 2008 @ 11:11 pm
Sag Supporter
Your a jock strap. The true middle class in this business is the BTL. Don’t you get it. we make 60 to 110 grand a year.True middle class. So you actors who get maybe four parts a year times 1500 =6000 bucks a true middle class in Mexico. This story is such bullshit, live off the residuals the rest of your life. I’ so glad my kid has a real job and is not a server.
Comment by just a thought — June 17, 2008 @ 11:28 pm
Anybody who really believes AFTRA’s contract effects SAG’s ability to negotiate a contract is a moron! MF is using it as an excuse and you are buying it without thinking. As SAG has repeatedly pointed out (when boasting how their union is so much better than AFTRA) they have 100% of motion picture jurisdiction. All the real money is in the motion pictures not television. So no matter what AFTRA does on its piece of TV, it does not affect SAG because movies aren’t going AFTRA. SAG keeps saying how much better of a contract they can get versus AFTRA, well go damn get it and stop talking about it!!!
Comment by Stop Talking and Start Doing — June 18, 2008 @ 6:16 am
hey RESPONSE TO BTL’ERS, I never said i was unhappy with my pay rate or contract. I am unhappy that vanity card holders in sag get to vote. If you don’t make your living-that means your primary living-working under a sag or aftra contract, you should not be able to vote. So why should those whose votes effects everyone in the industry have their cake and eat it too? Why should vanity holders effect those that truly make their living in this business? You think we should take huge income hits while you still go to your REAL job and take no financial hit there at all? I am saying you will take a hit and i am not tipping. Ill just go to restaurant and ask the waiter, “hey are you an actor?, what do you think about the strike?” then ill stiff them. The chance that that waiter will ever be on the call-sheets first 15 names is highly unlikely. In fact the real actors in this town tried to get a qualified voting mandate into action but there were too many vanity holders in protest. If you don’t make at least 25k from acting, and thats pretty much poverty in Los Angeles-then you are not using acting as your primary source of income and should not effect the lives and families of others that are making a true living in the business.
Comment by not going to tip — June 18, 2008 @ 7:38 am
Like I said before - no one put a gun to your head and forced you to be a BTL worker. You proactively chose your career, and YOUR union negotiates YOUR contract. As an actor - yes - I VERY much appreciate your piece of the puzzle, but WE DIDNT NEGOTIATE YOUR CONTRACT. I realize that most of you do love what you do, and I typically have better relationships with the BTL people on every set I am on than I do with the other actors most of the time - but those of you who think that the only negotiations that matter are your own have a serious case of narcissism. We support you in your negotiations, we weren’t breathing down your necks, we wanted you to get everything you wanted, and I think most of you love what you do, but apparently there is a certain faction of you who are ridiculously bitter. This is NOT YOUR NEGOTIATION, and NOT YOUR PLACE TO TELL US HOW TO NEGOTIATE, WHEN, FOR HOW LONG, OR WHAT TACTICS TO USE, OR WHAT TO DO, excuse us if we dont consider YOUR NEEDS when we are in the process of getting OUR CONTRACT taken care of. WTF do YOU have to do with OUR CONTRACT??? If you have nothing NICE to say and you can’t be SUPPORTIVE of another unions negotiations for a fair contract - SHUT UP AND STAND DOWN. Your bitterness tells me you are envious, or that you hate your job or maybe you hate your choices in life, or your life period. Don’t take that out on others who are simply exercising the same right to negotiate for a fair contract as YOU DID YOU SELFISH INCONSIDERATE LITTLE PEOPLE. GHEESH! “Oh…lets just stop our negotiations, who cares what contract we get, because there are a few people out there who don’t like actors and want us to just quicly bend over.” “Oh, in this economy….blah blah blah”. I am so tired of hearing that we should just stop fighting for a fair contract BECAUSE THE ECONOMY IS BAD???? How does that rationale work??? Yea - in this economy, where the media companies are making Billions - LETS GIVE THEM SOME MORE!!! Yea - its the actors fault that GAS IS AT $5 A GALLON??? If you don’t like gas prices - take that to your congressman/woman - don’t tell ACTORS to NOT negotiate for a fair contract because you don’t like gas prices!!! ONE LAST TIME - THIS IS NOT YOUR CONTRACT - UNLESS YOU ARE AN ACTOR - SAG, AFTRA, OR OTHERWISE, WHO’S PAY AND BENEFITS ARE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THIS ACTOR’S CONTRACT - UNLESS YOU W-O-R-K UNDER THIS CONTRACT, YOU HAVE NO SAY IN IT’S NEGOTIATION, SO IF YOU CANT BE SUPPORTIVE, SHUT UP AND STAND DOWN! And to JUST A THOUGHT - you want me to feel sorry for you that you make 100k last year??? You’ve got to be kidding me. Yes people depend on BTL’ers, but the BTL’ers depend on everyone else ALSO jackass. No writers, no actors, no directors - you don’t have a God Damn job either. So get off your woe is me kick.
Comment by to Just A Thought, Sam, etc — June 18, 2008 @ 7:42 am
Oh I see - there are a few other stipulations to contract negotiations that we Actors didn’t know about. So if the economy is good - it is ok to go ahead and negotiate and stand your ground for a good contract - but if it is not - bend over. Oh…and if Gas goes over $4 a gallon - you no longer have a right to a good contract. Gee - I completely forgot about those rules! Silly me! My contract doesnt matter, my pay and benefits are of no consequence, I just want to make sure everyone else has a chance to negotiate for their contracts - but not ours - I don’t care about that!
Comment by THE ECONOMY? GAS? — June 18, 2008 @ 7:48 am
I am the person you posted in response to, and…oddly enough - I actually think we are in complete agreement - at least about the vanity card holders - I completely agree with you. I on the other hand, do make much more than your 25k proposed limit, and I have to support myself, my wife, and my children on my income. I however am not one of those “name” actors that is not affected by the contract rates because I can demand 25k an episode, or 250k an episode. I am truly a middle class actor, and depend solely on my earnings as an actor and a writer. This year - much like you and others - I have taken a huge hit becuase of the labor negotiations, and my wife has had to get a full time job to suppliment my much smaller earnings - yet I believe in our right to do whatever it takes to negotiate a fair contract so that my earnings will not be impacted adversly BEYOND this year. Hopefully one step back (this year) for many steps foward (going forward). So - I don’t think we are that far apart on things - I understand your frustration - but I think you are mis-informed if you think the middle class working actors / dual card holders like me - whose ENTIRE livlihood depends on my job as an actor, and whose FAMILY depends on my livlihood as an actor - want to just bend over to avoid any work stoppage now, and give our futures away. I don’t want a work stoppage any more than you do - but when it comes to negotiating my future, I am not about to put immediate concerns ahead of my entire future. But be it known - as far as your feelings of frustration at the idea of vanity card holders playing with your future - I understand and agree with that - but that is not the whole picture - there are plenty of legitimate actors who are very much against the current AFTRA contract provisions.
Comment by Response to NOT GOING TO TIP — June 18, 2008 @ 11:31 am
AFTRA leadership, not SAG, is responsible for this current phase of the debacle. AFTRA cut off joint bargaining so they could cave in and get a shitty but dependable deal. They did so out of fear, the most disgusting of human emotions. AFTRA leadership is a bunch of bumblefucks and cowards, and I will vote against this regressive contract.
But aside from AFTRA’s failures, they aren’t solely responsible for this unfolding nightmare. Frankly, WGA isn’t getting enough of the blame for starting the ball rolling on the GREAT INDUSTRY CAVE-IN of 2008.
Yes, as one commenter noted, WGA enjoyed more support on these boards than SAG does now. That’s because we were all spoiling for a fight six months ago. Now the mood is different, not because SAG is out of line — they’re asking for very modest and reasonable changes! — but because everybody is demoralized from WGA getting raped and ruining everyone’s livelihoods in the process.
WGA fucked up by not waiting until this summer to strike. Now see what happened? AMPTP outmaneuvered WGA into defeating themselves when they had the entire town behind them (why the fuck did we need to let the Oscars go on?), so now too many cowardly people don’t believe the studios can be beaten (they can be) and AMPTP can pick off the unions with the most spineless leadership (AFTRA, DGA) one by one, circling in to kill off SAG. Divide and conquer.
WGA caved in juuust as some of them were starting to actually suffer. They had no stomach for a real, old-fashioned, dirty labor fight. Over and over, here on this board and in person, you’d hear these old guys moaning, “But people are losing their houses.” Fuck, duh! You want to squeeze a decent human lifestyle out of the amoral corporate monsters who run the studios? It’s going to cost you in the short term! As we move forward, let’s look to the American Revolution: we’re not going to beat the bad guys without risking “our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.”
Comment by actorjames — June 18, 2008 @ 11:34 am
TO ACTORJAMES:
Man - it is so refreshing to have another person with a spine stand up and say something! THANK YOU.
Comment by TO ACTORJAMES — June 18, 2008 @ 11:56 am
to actorjames:
uh…you’re taking this a little too seriously, eh? Someone needs a sandwich, a drink, and an acting job…
Comment by just sayin — June 18, 2008 @ 12:47 pm
actorjames is awfully blithe about a “real, old-fashioned, dirty labor fight.” Do you even know what that entails? Have you read your labor history? And do you fully understand the difference between a union of unskilled labor and a guild of skilled labor? Do you understand how different the negotiations, ideologies, and ultimate goals of each of these organizations are? That a skilled guild where each and every member, by it’s own rules, must be represented by a licensed agent or lawyer is an entirely different ballgame than, let’s say, a union of garment workers for whom collective bargaining is their only recourse?
Now…what was this you were callowly spouting about how the WGA “caved” just as they were beginning to “suffer”? In your opinion, how much suffering is okay? How much suffering should one endure over contract minutia? How much of this minutia should be left to project by project negotiations? How much suffering did you endure? Any?
Comment by just think about it — June 18, 2008 @ 3:30 pm
I see people are misled to believe this is about the future. Anybody who says that is a liar and anybody who believes it is naive at best at worst a mindless moron. The length of the contract is 3 years, so these negotiations are not about the future it is about now! I for one do not believe in 3 years network TV will move entirely to the internet, bt even if you do… fight then, strike then. If you believe the contract is unacceptable as it applies right now, then you have every right to fight for your livelihood, but to say I am willing to give up my job now because I am afraid what will happen in 5 years (when you will be working under a different contract anyway) is STUPID!
So please don’t insult people’s intelligence saying its about the future, IT IS ABOT NOW AND THE NEXT THREE YEARS.
Comment by This Isn't About The Future — June 18, 2008 @ 5:12 pm
To actorjames
Your ignorance is astonishing, but not unexpected. After all, you’re a wannabe actor. The DGA spend 1.5 million dollars studying New Media. They came to the measured conclusion that there was no business model yet. They negotiated a contract. Roll over? The DGA? Talk about repeating a lie until people quote it as fact. You guys have taken a page from Karl Rove in that regard. As Michael Apted said at the national meeting, “The WGA’s stance was about righting historic wrongs”. That should not be the basis for negotiation. How about cooly surveying current and possible conditions, and using facts instead of innuendo and dogma to support your position? Or, you could just blame AFTRA and the DGA, no matter the facts of the case.
Comment by Scott — June 18, 2008 @ 5:54 pm
To: THIS ISNT ABOUT THE FUTURE:
Your statement is really comic! (you were trying to be funny…..right? Cuz that’s pretty good. I know you are trying to be funny, because you can’t honestly believe that if we bend over now and give too much away that we’ll be able to get it all back in 3 years! So that HAD to be a joke, and on that note - I applaud your effort! I see the humor in there….somewhere…..I think…..wait…..I am puzzled……what exactly IS “the future”, if not the next three years? I’m all befuddled now…break it down for those of us that are a little slower and don’t easily get the intelligent form of comedy….
Comment by WHEN DOES THE FUTURE START EXACTLY? — June 18, 2008 @ 6:02 pm
Future? Youtube becomes the number one source of entertainment in the world? Guys tripping over their shoelaces. Girlfriends dissing their boyfriends. Uncle Johnny bungee jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. Future looks bright.
Comment by sam — June 18, 2008 @ 8:08 pm
@Just A Thought, Sam,
Yes I did make that much money last year, and I wasn’t asking for your condolences. I also don’t care how your guild negotiates. When they say that they want better for the acting middle class, who are they really talking about. Could that be the extras. I don’t know, if your lucky to be in a cast your money is well above the middle class. We all know that. So who is it that Alan is talking about.
BTW too many caps and you are way too angry. The reason you get along with the BTL is your in competition with the cast your working with.
Comment by just a thought — June 18, 2008 @ 8:43 pm
Tipping in restaurants is based on the service you received, if you get great service, but refuse to tip because your server is a SAG card holder, who doesn’t share your view…that makes you an asshole. That server is working harder in the restaurant business, than on any acting job.
SAG members have the right to fight for the best contract possible, I think the lack of support comes from all the dirty laundry that’s been hurled from SAG to AFTRA and AFTRA to SAG, the infighting at SAG…etc., the list of screw-ups is long.
One change since the WGA strike is the Studio are being cheaper than cheap…nit-picking every little f**king thing, makes you not care about your job in the same way.
When I first started in this business, money was never an issue, whatever you needed to do your job, it made me a loyal employee (Paramount), now…not so much.
It would be nice if everyone supported and respected what each of us bring to this business…but the studios are creating an atmosphere of “I will f**k you to get mine”.
To end on a bleak note…the word is, if SAG goes out, fuck em…we”ll stop shooting in film, change to digital and become an AFTRA show.
Well, good luck to all of us, cause we’re all being jerked around.
Comment by btl teamster — June 18, 2008 @ 8:44 pm
TO BTL TEAMSTER:
I think I speak for all actors when I say
Thank You, for your supportive comments. We all need to think more like that - and realize who we are really up against - and it shouldn’t be each other. And I think you are right about the other comments you made as well - regarding the infighting “cheapness” of the studios.
Comment by Thank You BTL Teamster — June 18, 2008 @ 11:12 pm
Again I must note that anonymous opinions expressed in comments sections like this one are best taken with a moon-sized grain of salt. IMHO, it is extremely easy to pad these sections with echo-chamber anonymous concurring opinions, giving the false illusion that there are more active posters here with said opinion than actually exist.
Me, I’m easy to find. And I never post anonymously. Just click on my name.
Oh, and one other advantage to making yourself accountable for your words? You get name credit when you get quoted in Daily Variety. June 5. Look it up. Or find the link off my blog. Just click on my name. My REAL name. It’s right there.
Comment by mheister — June 19, 2008 @ 3:43 am
If you look at the last sag strike, the 2000 commercial strike, it was the vanity card holders that voted to strike. Well what happened? All commercials left the country. Thats what started the whole Canada as the new Hollywood deal. That then carried over into TV and Features. The results of that strike was a net zero for sag. As a matter of fact you net less than zero because the work left the country in the form of buyouts.
Lets look at what the writers actually won. In my opinion, the only thing they won was the language, “percentage” in the new media contract. Even though the percentage is capped at 40k, which really isnt a percentage in the current contract. They can in 3 years use that precedence to negotiate a removal of the cap. Thats all they won. Lets look at what they lost. Studios have reduced the amount of staffed writers on a show from around 12 to 4. They lost animation. They lost dvd. They lost every other item they were negotiating for. So for this strike, net gain at zero but with the possibility of a back end deal in the NEXT contract because of the “percentage” language.
The DGA deal. They aren’t at a net zero here folks. They made gains, didn’t give anything up, and didn’t strike. They have more now than before they negotiated. Thats a plain fact. You can argue that they could have gotten more but thats pure conjecture. It didn’t cost them anything, didn’t cost jobs or staffing positions and didn’t set the rest of the industry on a course of lost wages.
When you go on strike you effect more than just your union. You put other people in harms way by causing the loss of THEIR jobs and wages. I went through the 88 strike, 2000, and this one. No one wins with a strike. A strike should never be the goal. You should also consider who you are striking for and at what cost to you and others. Most contracts for those other than extras are negotiated by YOUR AGENT and these deals are above scale and union minimums anyway. In fact, even though I am BTL my contract is negotiated by my agent as well. I am paid well above scale and treated contractually well above union standards. If there is something in your deal that you don’t like then you talk to your agent and have him take it out. If you get a Michael Bay film and you don’t want to hold a Coke can and feel that you are advertising, then talk to Bay or your agent. It’s done all the time. If you are just a 5 and under, and don’t like it talk to your agent. If being a 5 and under isn’t enough pull and you really have a moral conflict then don’t take the part. No one is forcing you to do it. Just like when I read a script and don’t like the story I CHOOSE not to take that project. You don’t want your clip used and your agent has tried but can’t negotiate that part out? THEN DON’T TAKE IT!!! Thats the benefit of being free lance. I mean how desperate are you? So what actors are we really going to strike for? Who is really voting to strike? It’s the vanity card holders who are a MAJORITY in your union. These people have other jobs, not acting. They have nothing to risk by striking. They think they will not lose wages so that is why I will not tip. No waiter/actor is going to cause financial harm without joining in the cause “oh union brother”. What about solidarity? Does that only apply if there is a reward? Doesn’t solidarity mean that everyone should share in the risk? and the rewards?
A note for next time. Please have someone other than actors negotiate your contract. You have an agent, manager, lawyer do your contracts for work but when it comes to your union you decide, “well take it from here MBA’s”. That makes as much sense as having them give you a line reading.
“I Sometimes think we must all be mad and that we shall wake to sanity in straight-waistcoats.”
- excerpt from Bram Stokers’ Dracula.
Comment by not going to tip — June 19, 2008 @ 7:23 am
@ btl teamster
I’ve been saying the same thing for a week now. We will all get cheaper contracts out of this. So much for the middle class in this business.
Comment by just a thought — June 19, 2008 @ 8:53 am
To “just think about it”: I guess you think that because actors have agents to negotiate better than the union contracts, why bother improving the contract at all? Why not keep it where it is and let inflation swamp it? After all, we all have agents! Come on. Everyone knows the collective bargaining contracts greatly influence whatever specific deals we’re able to secure. And, unless you’re a big shot, more often than not the union contract is going to be the contract most actors work under, with a few minor concessions here and there of course.
You ask about my bonafides as to having suffered in the last strike: yep, it hurt to be out of work for several months. But that doesn’t hurt as much as the insulting system where the studios re-play entire scenes of my work on the internet as “promotions” without sending me a dime. And you know what? Suffering for a short stretch never hurts as much as being ground into dirt over a lifetime.
To “just sayin” and “Scott”: You guys are assholes. You both just assume that because I come here not terrified of the studio bosses’ talking points you so solemnly recite that I must be a “wannabe actor” and that I “need” an acting job?! That indicates a dumb worldview, where you hard-working, aging careerists are getting undermined by young unemployed hotshots. I am a working actor and I make a living at that exclusively. But you guys want to trade blind insults, sight unseen? We all know that can be fun! How about: you’re probably both angry Republican silverfoxes who enjoy screaming at people around you, and I’ll outlive you by 30 years! Ha, ha, ha!
Comment by actorjames — June 19, 2008 @ 9:59 am
To: BTL/Bram Stoker;
THANK YOU!! Finally some practical advice & wisdom here. Of course there’s a time to strike and a time to settle, or a time to extend. I’ve walked many a picket line, won a few, lost a few.
But let’s consider the foggy, unclear, unsettled state of the business. There’s no “there” there yet in the internet. We ALL know tv networks are going to become dot-coms, but the bandwidth isn’t there yet to make it happen. So a strike in ‘10 or ‘13 might make sense when we’re really being told to stuff it, in the face of billions ‘o bucks of corporate new media profits. But not this year. It’s not happening yet. And it ain’t the congloms who are telling us that; WE all know it for a fact.
And we also know that DVDs are the 45’s and LP’s of 2010. So to strike over a medium that’s headed for the polyvinyl graveyard and is no longer the fab profit center for studios it once was, is plain short-sighted.
In the short term SAG must take the DGA/WGA/AFTRA deal (AFTRA’s deal secured actors’ clips, internet, and 10.3% raises) and plan for the next contract cycle rather than wasting precious SAG contract stragegy-time on threatening talent agents, then farting at AFTRA.
Keep this town working. Actors: vote “Yes” on the AFTRA contract for AFTRA shows (SAG shows are under SAG jurisdiction and will stay that way) and mail in your ballot before the 4th of July.
Comment by Working SAG/AFTRA Actor — June 19, 2008 @ 1:01 pm
To Wannabe Actor James:
DGA-excellent, well run union of professionals with a fantastic health plan and a pension that’s the envy of Hollywood. SAG-Dysfunctional union run by narcissists who want to debate the other actor’s union instead of their true rivals, the AMPTP. Scoreboard, jackass.
Comment by Anonymous — June 19, 2008 @ 1:12 pm
TO: THE REAL MHEISTER
Congrats. Be careful you don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back. Some of us find it easier to express our true feelings under the protection of anynomity. That doesnt make our comments or feelings or opinions any less valid than yours. Thanks for clearing up for all of us that this is your real name. I don’t think anyone really cares, but thanks none the less. Take a bow now, and leave the stage.
Comment by TO: THE REAL MHEISTER — June 19, 2008 @ 3:07 pm
I know a million people have said this but it probably bears repeating…the more unemployed a union or guild is, the more dysfunctional it will be. General employment helps to give everyone a sense of the stakes and focuses the mind on the real issues involved. Unemployment breeds bitterness and tends to focus the emotions on the resentment involved.
The DGA? largely employed. SAG? largely unemployed.
The DGA? A sharp, smart negotiation with a terrific contract. SAG? Yikes.
’nuff said
Comment by a suit — June 19, 2008 @ 3:29 pm
Is there anything to stop the congloms from simply moving production overseas. Hire two or three American actors and do a show in Australia, New Zealand, Canada or anywhere else it might be cheaper. Even if SAG gets all they want a good businessman will find a way to get the most for his investment. So the productions move and no IASTE, WGA, DGA and limited SAG involvement overseas combined with money breaks that a lot of foreign countries give. So most of the actors in the US are out of work unless they migrate. What would you win. The right to money that you will never see because the Moguls can just relocate the productions somewhere else. A strike even if you win you will lose because the jobs will go away. A background player in Australia looks the same as one here.
Comment by Brian — June 19, 2008 @ 10:06 pm
I know it’s late but I was working a Digital show today. I asked the assistant that picked up the gear at panavision what was it like up there. He tells me that all the digital is either out on shows or is reserved for the beginning of July. A check of the other rental houses the same thing. So Sag be afraid be very afraid.
Comment by just a thought — June 20, 2008 @ 12:28 am