Nikki Finke’s Deadline Hollywood Daily » Why Did Lionsgate Dump Clive Barker Pic Into Dollar And Second Run Theaters?

Why Did Lionsgate Dump Clive Barker Pic Into Dollar And Second Run Theaters?

With Lionsgate expanding and landing a $340 credit line, it's easy for the studio to forget about its fanbase. Or is it? As I reported previously, horror aficionados are furious that Lionsgate's Joe Drake is moving away from this genre of films in favor of more mainstream fare like Tyler Perry. (This month, Lionsgate signed hit factory Perry to a new 3-year first-look deal to distribute at least 3 more Perry films -- after releasing 5 Perry pics since 2005.) Well, this weekend Lionsgate officially dumped Clive Barker's Midnight Meat Train. And not just into a tiny 102 theaters but humiliatingly into the dollar and second run theaters where it made $32,000 ($313 per screen). Now fans are worried Lionsgate will do the same to other films they're hotly anticipating, like Repo! The Genetic Opera and The Burrowers. All are ex-Lionsgate head Peter Block's films, so Drake has a vested interest in making Block's movies look bad at the box office even if he may be doing it for moral reasons. (I've long campaigned that execs should look inward before releasing "Hard R" horror films, especially those that feature torture porn.) As one horror fan asked me, "The question is, why does Lionsgate want the movie to make less money than it would normally in limited theaters? Something seems off." The answer may well be studio politics.

By Nikki Finke on Sun, Aug 3rd, 2008 at 01:50PM | Link | Email | |

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63 Comments »

Maybe “Train” sucks? Have you considered that?

Comment by Terry — August 3, 2008 @ 2:19 pm
You would think - you would THINK - that Lionsgate would be cognizant of the cautionary tale of another mini-major to do pretty much the exact same thing over the last ten years. To NOT fall into the gears of the New Line System of Self-Destruction. But I suppose there’s really no shortage of the dangerous concoction that mixing together ego, arrogance and stupidity creates.

Comment by Stanley — August 3, 2008 @ 2:33 pm
The answer isn’t just politics, but available theaters. Look at how many films are in the marketplace right now, all fighting for screens.

Comment by Anonymous — August 3, 2008 @ 2:49 pm
So if horror fans are in such an uproar about Midnight Meat Train getting dumped, why didn’t they seek it out and pay to see it, even if it was in discount theaters?

Comment by Can't Take it Anymore — August 3, 2008 @ 3:02 pm
Any profit participants in this movie should be filing suit, since it’s obvious Lionsgate is doing its best to make sure it doesn’t make any money. It’s always difficult to prove damages, but they could make some noise.

Comment by Dan Z — August 3, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
Yeah, I can’t imagine why LG would not want a movie with the worst title in history and a Paris Hilton movie on 4,000 screens.

Comment by Come on — August 3, 2008 @ 3:23 pm
@Terry
Maybe “Train” sucks? Have you considered that?

Got to be another reason: if Hollywood studios and distributors were to sideline every bad movie that get made, about six films would get into general release a year.

That said, as Clive Barker’s works have never made a good film (Nightbreed being almost good), this isn’t that surprising.

Comment by Richard Cosgrove — August 3, 2008 @ 5:37 pm
Yeah because Tyler Perry movies are such a big hit.

I swear do these executives smoke crack every day? They sure do a lot of dumb business moves.

Horror flicks can make a lot of money and last longer than non original films.

*sighs*

Comment by Enough — August 3, 2008 @ 6:07 pm
Midnight Meat Train is only available at 102 theatres across the entire nation. I could not find it within a 40 mile search of Washington DC. My friends in Philly, Pittsburgh and New York City couldn’t find it. Where is it playing? Puerto Rico and Alaska only??

Let a movie be seen and live or die on its own. I hate studio politics getting in the way of that.

Comment by Mark — August 3, 2008 @ 6:18 pm
Scott Weinberg from Cinematical got it right on this one in his review of the movie:

The Midnight Meat Train is so absolutely a “horror fans only” experience that I’m not surprised that Lionsgate wants to give it only a cursory theatrical release before dumping it into DVD. I do not mean that as a knock on the film. As a matter of fact, this is certainly one of the most effective horror films of the year — but man, oh man… it would be a really tough sell on 1,200 screens. It’s kind of an unfair catch-22 where certain horror movies are concerned: if you “go dark,” dabble in grimness, and don’t cater to the under-18 crowd, then there’s a good chance your “hardcore” horror movie will debut on DVD (at best) or, like The Mist and The Ruins, arrive in theaters very quietly.

http://www.cinematical.com/2008/07/26/sdcc-review-the-midnight-meat-train/

Comment by Midnight Meat Trainwreck — August 3, 2008 @ 6:20 pm
Where are these theaters playing it? I couldn’t find it here in DC and my friends couldn’t find it in Philly, Pittsburgh or New York City! Is it only playing in Puerto Rico and Alaska??

A movie should be allowed to live or die through reviews and audience turnout. Studio Politics screwing with this only robs us viewers in the end.

Comment by Mark — August 3, 2008 @ 6:21 pm
Couple things.

Let’s not hate on Tyler Perry. He has a strong devoted fan base that drives all of his movies to profitability. So for Lionsgate to lock him down is wise.

2nd. Horror fans couldn’t seek out this film because it was nowhere to be found. There wasn’t even a screening here in New York City. So don’t blame horror fans. Especially when studios use horror films to make a quick buck often.

Joe Drake should also be called out on his producing involvement on “The Strangers” which was released this summer with no horror competition and made money.

Also why not just release the movie straight to DVD? “Wrong Turn 2″ was direct to DVD and it was a success. Why embarass this film as if it just was done to prove a point or piss someone off.

Finally if Lionsgate is in fact neglecting horror, they better hope the “Saw” well doesn’t dry this year. Especially since “Saw 5″ is going up against “HSM3″. Looks like Jigsaw will be defeated by the Disney Wildcats.

And Nikki, Hard R films are not all bad. “The Exorcist” was a Hard R.

Comment by Bruno — August 3, 2008 @ 6:33 pm
Honestly, Nikki. You posted something based solely on fan speculation?

I’m not criticizing your journalism, but fans are not particularly credible. They constantly make big deals about nothing. Exaggeration is the only constant among communication from the various fandoms.

First of all, Lionsgate is not going to be getting much (if any) revenue from this release. Discount theaters keep almost all of the ticket price. The rental fees are very low. Not so for a first run theater where as much as 80% of the box office goes to the distributor during the first week and declines slowly in the exhibitor’s favor each week.

The movie is sh!t. It’s a loser. It’s probably being released only for contractual reasons. Dig a little deeper, Nikki, and I’m fairly certain this is just plain vanilla contract compliance for a film Lionsgate would have preferred not to release at all. This isn’t unusual.

What is the usual is ignorant fans claiming conspiracy or something else equally ignorant when they don’t understand what the hell they’re talking about.

For example, Zyzzyx Road. It was easy for CHUD to publish snarky comments about the “lowest grossing film in history,” but those comments emphasized the ignorance of that website.

“The Midnight Meat Train” is just another case of too many conspiracy theorists and not enough actual conspiracies.

Comment by Harold — August 3, 2008 @ 6:35 pm
I think it’s worth noting that Lionsgate pulled the rug out from under fans in some markets at the last second. The film was supposed to open in the Hampton Roads area of Virginia, but a few days beforehand, it was yanked off our local schedule…and in our case, it did NOT get put into any discount theater. We just didn’t get it released here at ALL.

Comment by Will — August 3, 2008 @ 6:40 pm
Is Midnight Meat Train even playing in LA beyond its midnight show at the Nuart. That’s past my bedtime.

Comment by Daniel — August 3, 2008 @ 6:58 pm
It’s not as if Lionsgate was founded to serve horror fans and is suddenly abandoning its mandate. The distributor formerly known as Cinepix and CFP distributed a variety of specialized and art movies for years before they made what can be considered a fairly recent detour into the horror genre. And they likely did that because those films were suddenly popular with wider audiences again and they represented an opportunity. The ensuing glut of horror films from several studios subsequently made it a tougher marketplace in which they suddenly found themselves overexposed. Now they are attempting to make a correction by diversifying their slate. Seems like good business sense to me. It’s a tough racket.

Comment by DLW — August 3, 2008 @ 7:10 pm
Okay now, I can see being upset about MMT, but Tyler Perry has a record of hits that anyone else in LA would give their eyeteeth for, so don’t knock him.

Comment by Come On — August 3, 2008 @ 7:19 pm
Since, as you admit, you’ve campaigned against hard R horror films, why complain now that Lionsgate is trying to take the company into a classier direction?

Talk about hypocracy…

Comment by Dixon Steele — August 3, 2008 @ 7:32 pm
I think there’s a very simple reason why the movie was buried: the title. I saw the trailer for this back in February, and as soon as the narrator announced the title, the audience started cracking up - which, I have to guess wasn’t the intended effect based on the tone of the rest of the trailer. What studio wants to back a horror movie that sounds like a porn-knock-off? If it wasn’t a good movie anyway, then the new studio head absolutely made the right decision in avoiding the assured embarassment that would have come with the movie and its goofy title… just as the studio was right to get rid of the original studio head who approved such an obvious (meat) train-wreck.

Comment by Alan — August 3, 2008 @ 8:09 pm
there is something more to this story, dig deeper.

Comment by no name — August 3, 2008 @ 8:36 pm
My Main problem with the lack of a wider release are the overlapping fan bases that would have supported the movie. First you have horror movie fans who eagerly anticipate any true horror movie. You also have Clive Barker fans who keep hoping for movie adaptations that actually work, and with Barker and his production company involved this could be the start. Thirdly are fans of asian director Ryuhei Kitamura, who has made many inroads with his body of work from japan, and this is his first american movie. So with a real marketing campaign, and really nothing huge. Hell ComiCon was last week, a perfect place to sell this flick. coulda worked.

Comment by J. — August 3, 2008 @ 9:31 pm
This guy hit it right on the head: http://www.shocktillyoudrop.com/news/topnews.php?id=7190

Comment by Meat Grinder — August 3, 2008 @ 9:38 pm
What the F—! We need more R-Rated horror films damn it! I’m sick of these pussy pg-13’s being shoved down our throats. F the new LIONSGATE. and F Joe Drake trying to kill Horror.

Comment by GORDON DD — August 3, 2008 @ 9:49 pm
Mark, I saw the movie today at the Carmike 10 (a discount house) in Birmingham, Alabama. It is a very well made, intelligent and genuinely suspenseful horror film. It is atypical of the current slate of horror films you see from the genre division (Screen Gems, Fox Atomic, et al) which makes it harder for the marketing people to sell. An unfortunate truth in today’s competitive film business.

Comment by greg6363 — August 3, 2008 @ 10:01 pm
This is a travesty. It’s not playing in Los Angeles. It’s not playing in New York. It’s not playing anywhere in the Northeast. It’s playing two shows a day in the middle of nowhere (trust me– look it up on the map on IMDB). Joe Drake just took a big shit on Lionsgate’s bread-and-butter horror/genre audience. Good luck to him making up that money with dogs-to-be, like, say, THE SPIRIT. And good luck to him not thinking that genre fans aren’t going to remember this.

I’m a horror fan. I’m a Clive Barker fan. I would have loved to have seen this film this weekend. I can’t. Joe Drake must be following the Toby Emmerich “horror doesn’t make any money” playbook. Let’s see how far that gets him. And Lionsgate.

Comment by Jack Burton — August 3, 2008 @ 10:27 pm
I’m sorry, are there people here actually suggesting that the purveyors of such high-brow films as WITLESS PROTECTION, THE EYE, BRATZ, and CAPTIVITY looked at MIDNIGHT MEAT TRAIN and stuck up their dainty noses because it didn’t meet their high standard of quality? Please. There was money to be made here and they purposefully positioned it in theaters where it couldn’t possibly make money, which is very suspicious. This stinks to high heaven.

Comment by westwood13 — August 4, 2008 @ 12:00 am
All the smack talking on Joe Drake is silly.

Joe Drake built Mandate into a power-house production company, developing, producing and distributing titles with all of the big boys.

Drake has the difficult task of cleaning up the aimless slate that Lionsgate has had in the last couple of years (Bratz, Larry The Cable Guy anyone?)- the axing of Midnight Meat Train is a sign of good things to come.

There is no conflict of interest, there is no conspiracy, there is no agenda beyond strengthening the quality of Lionsgate’s slate.

Comment by Midnight Meat Trainwreck — August 4, 2008 @ 12:07 am
This film is playing two L.A.-area engagements, in Norwalk and La Mirada. I went to one of them this weekend. I didn’t see a lot of fans turning out on Clive Barker’s behalf–there were six other people in the audience, and three of them looked like they’d snuck in from the Indian film playing next door. This film is terrible, plain and simple… and I say that as someone who likes the title, et al. Anyone who claims this is a good movie has had his head buried in Fangoria for too many years. Even if you like the buildup, it has a shitty ending that would send people screaming out of the theater with deadly word of mouth. Don’t think they didn’t test this thing before they decided to give it the contractually bare minimum run. And as for the idea that some piece of crap that tests horribly will still draw out gorehounds in reasonably numbers… I think the per-theater gross, even after this has been promised as the second coming on every horror site on the web, is indication of just how large and motivated the Barker fan base is.

Comment by Meaty Beaty Big & Bouncy — August 4, 2008 @ 12:28 am
“Inane” is how I describe the moron who suggested horror fans should “seek this movie out.” So I’m to leave New York City and drive to Philly (at current gas prices), where it MIGHT be playing, because it sure isn’t playing anywhere near NYC. How crap like “In the Valley of Elah” and “Redacted” (Political porn at its worst) can get wide release while something that would actually make a dollar (horror porn) languishes because two tribe members are feuding. God save the artist!

Comment by Marc — August 4, 2008 @ 6:23 am
It’s interesting how people slamming the movie based on title and preview haven’t seen it. I have. I am not some horror fan that runs out and sees every horror movie that comes out — but I do like a GOOD one. This one is the best I’ve seen in a few years. It’s not a horror classic or a great movie by any means, but it gave me a lot of what I look for in a horror movie. First of all, it wasn’t completely predictable. Second, there was actual character development and the whole movie wasn’t exactly what you see on the surface. Third, there was some good over the top gorey horror, but this movie has overall less gore than in movies such as Saw or Final Destination. The gore is just part of the story not THE story. There was a decent crowd at the theater I was at… this movie probably would have at least broken even and made a little money if it had gone out first run. And the title serves its purpose. It tells you it’s going to be an over the top gorey horror movie.

Comment by John E — August 4, 2008 @ 6:42 am
“Since, as you admit, you’ve campaigned against hard R horror films, why complain now that Lionsgate is trying to take the company into a classier direction?

Talk about hypocracy…”

Actually, this would be called good journalism. Even though Nikki doesn’t like hard R rated horror, she’s still covering a story about Lionsgate dumping this much anticipated film. That’s called unbiased journalism.

Comment by Raider — August 4, 2008 @ 7:20 am
I live in Rockford, IL, where it actually opened in my city (but as far as I can tell, not in Chicago which is 1.5 hours away). Yet there has been ZERO marketing for this film. I’m the most in-the-know person I know when it comes to movies, and I had no idea it was opening here until I got a call from a friend who happened to be at our local second-run theater seeing something else and saw it on the marquee.

The point is, for those of you pointing to its performance where it WAS playing, saying how even fans aren’t supporting it, I can tell you that’s because fans had no idea it was out. Further evidence this is nothing but a dump - It wasn’t even promoted in the areas where it played.

I have no problem with a studio expanding its slate, and I’ve always liked Lionsgate. They often picked up and released films that other studios didn’t have the balls to release for PC reasons. But don’t abandon the genre that made your company. Like an earlier poster said, we need more R-rated horror. I’m sick of PG-13 cash-grabs and bad Asian remakes.

Comment by Brian M — August 4, 2008 @ 7:30 am
sounds like there is some lionsgate plants among us!

Comment by LIONSGATE PLANT — August 4, 2008 @ 8:16 am
Hey sweet, two LG execs just technically commented on the record!

Comment by Brian — August 4, 2008 @ 8:42 am
Now could’ve this had been a bad managerial deiscion? It certainly sounds like one. For one thing Clive Barker has a lots of fans and to treat this horror film this way is a slap in thier face.
Question is now this. Why isn’t this film playing in the metromarkets: NYC,Los Angeles,Chicago? Well not to release it in such markets; is Lionsgate afraid of a backlash? Or a boxoffice flop? It certainly sounds like they’re afraid of one.

Comment by chuck — August 4, 2008 @ 9:01 am
Even Variety gives positive review to this movie. So it looks like Lionsgate has made a dumb decision to dump this movie.
http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117937873.html?categoryid=31&cs=1

Comment by pp — August 4, 2008 @ 9:25 am
I was able to find a screen showing MMT in Pittsburgh. It was at the MaxiSaver near Century III. I thought it was a really exceptional horror film. Best dollar I’ve spent on a movie in a long time. It was brutally dark, and yes, the ending wasn’t your typical happy Hollywood ending. That’s one of the things I felt made it exceptional. The ending even served to make a few of the happy coincidences that drove the narrative logical. It was cohesive and thought-out in a way few horror films are. The performances were by-and-large compelling, and by the end I was really engaged. It’s a shame it’ll never reach a wider audience. I see it as a success that 32,000 people went out of their way to find a screening, and set foot in the crummy places it was playing. No joke, the A/C was busted in my theater, and a third of the chairs were either taped off or missing.

Comment by Bill — August 4, 2008 @ 11:54 am
Whoever that Ryan Rotten guy is, he certainly shows his ignorance with his blog weaving all kinds of conspiracy theories when the truth is simple- this movie was only ever going to appeal to a small number of horror fans.

Outside of the black horror t-shirt crowd, you’d probably be hard-pressed to find a moviegoer who wants to see a film where victims are referred to as “meat.” It’s like that “meat” campaign for “Hostel 2.” Mainstream folks aren’t necessarily interested in the kind of humorless, gore-obsessed horror that is represented by Kitamura’s film. “Strangers” is all about suspense and the threat of violence. “Midnight Meat Train” goes out of its way to fetishize the blood and guts with all of the filmmaker’s wacky camera tricks to capture the violence and splatter in unusual ways.

Celebrating gory stunts is fun for a certain audience, which I can appreciate, but that audience isn’t currently large enough to support a 1200 screen release. “Strangers,” which promised audiences scares, but no gore, is what that wider audience seemed to want.

Comment by Will Aaron — August 4, 2008 @ 12:08 pm
The best thing about Rotten’s column is where he talks about the bonuses Lionsgate is trying to avoid if the movie makes money. As that threshold is probably around $35 or $40 million domestic which would then increase if it went past $60 and then $80 million, I don’t really think the studio would’ve minded paying those out if somehow the movie had managed to crawl to those levels.

Comment by chewbackie — August 4, 2008 @ 12:14 pm
Regardless of the anti-horror talk here, this is something that should infuriate movie fans. How would you feel if your awaited sci-fi, fantasy or indie flick gets dumped on dollar-theaters in such a way? As a horror fan (and filmmaker), I’m pissed. This makes me not want to work for LionsGate. This should make any self-respecting filmmaker not work for LionsGate. I know around here all the commenters care for is box-ffice, but just good box office doesn’t a great movie make. (And by the, Tyler Perry is a hack! regardless of what the studio-loving talking heads on this thread may say otherwise). This is a very dire time to be a horror fan. We’re labeled as ignorant movie fans who like violent trash.. we get awful PG-13 made by the studios.. and when a talented team of filmmakers like Kitamura and Barker finally get a movie made that might be worth a damn, it gets dumped like this. Peace out!

Comment by Horror-101 — August 4, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
Christ. Horror fans need to get a life. There’s no conspiracy at play here - it’s business. Films get buried constantly and it’s usually because the studio doesn’t have faith that they will recoup the investment of a theatrical release. LG probably just realized that the losers drooling over this dog will see it on DVD the moment it’s released anyway - so why bother digging a hole at theatrical when Home Video is where a film like this will make THEM money.

Comment by colinsmith — August 4, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
I remember reading in an earlier DHD post that this films trailer tested higher than any other trailer in the history of Lionsgate. Even Variety’s review this morning was complimentary.

So anyone speculating on an article you call speculatory over a movie you haven’t seen - suck it.

Comment by keith — August 4, 2008 @ 2:59 pm
Every time I remember that this is happening to Midnight Meat Train, et al, I grin, and do a little jig. Art and entertainment should elevate, not degrade humankind. This sort of horror is pointless, and I’m glad for its theatrical burial.

Comment by jonathan — August 4, 2008 @ 3:48 pm
Are you talking about the Variety review by Rob Nelson who, upon seeing “JCVD,” declared “Van Damme is back!” So yes, one of Variety’s 12th stringers said nice things about the movie, but he also said some pretty specific things, too like “film’s not scary,” “before flying off the rails in the final curve,” “patently ridiculous final reel,” “Leon’s dark side goes underdeveloped,” “doesn’t track.” If you’re going to read it selectively, you have to look at it both ways.

Having seen the movie, I think the Fangoria.com review - http://www.fangoria.com/ghastly_review.php?id=7035 - is the best as it is incredibly even-handed, listing both the film’s strengths and weaknesses. When a lot of fanboys-turned-critics/filmmakers (as Horror 101 wanted to assure everyone on this board that he is) are all THUMB’S WAY UP or THIS THING SUXXZ about horror films, even for a dusty old print publication, Fangoria always seems to get it right as they’ve been doing this a lot longer than most and aren’t going crazy for every single new thing that splashes blood on the camera lens.

Comment by Variety?! — August 4, 2008 @ 4:16 pm
Keith, if you read a post on here claiming that MMT’s trailers tested well, someone was lying.

Comment by Can't Take it Anymore — August 4, 2008 @ 4:33 pm
interesting to see the comments on the page about this - Harold had this right

anyone who understands how majors or mini-majors release movies will know that this film probably screen tested incredibly poorly and was on a “technical release”, essentially meaning the minimum number of screens that LG had to release on as per its contract with the producers and/or its TV output deals.

given the huge cost of prints, advertising materials etc it would have made zero financial sense for LG to go any wider with the film - no doubt they chose the theatres that have performed best historically for the genre (no doubt LG of all the distrbutors, would have the data to know which sites)

given how the economics work in distribution, i doubt LG would have intentionally sabotaged the film by dumping it into discount theatres if any sizeable audience could have been found for it in the first runs - as some of the posters here have stated, having a weak theatrical release (as opposed to no theatrical release at all) is only likely to harm what is LG’s real source of profit, DVD and TV sales

to summarise, they did the minimum they had to theatrically to qualify for future revenue from DVD and TV sales

Comment by crazyfox — August 4, 2008 @ 5:10 pm
Really, Crazyfox? I call BS on that. Would it have made a fortune? No. Would it have made more than, say, Lionsgate’s SEE NO EVIL? THE CONTENDERS? The loathsome CAPTIVITY? Or other modestly-performing genre product? Maybe. It’s one thing to put a film in limited release the way the Weinsteins dumped DIARY OF THE DEAD or ROGUE. It’s another to deliberately sabotage any sort of release. No Los Angeles venues. No San Francisco venues. No New York or Northeast venues. Not a one. You can say that they did this to cut their losses, but given the interest that genre fans showed in this material — and Barker’s fan-base — this was a deliberate spit in the face by Joe Drake.

Comment by Jack Burton — August 4, 2008 @ 5:55 pm
Wasn’t there a beheading on a greyhound bus last week?

Comment by PD — August 4, 2008 @ 6:31 pm
“Are you talking about the Variety review by Rob Nelson who, upon seeing “JCVD,” declared “Van Damme is back!” ”

LOL, thanks for bringing some rationality to all this fanboy ranting, and providing some perspective on the Variety review they all keep citing. I’m certainly not upset that at least one crappy gore-porn horror isn’t going to make it to a wide release.

Comment by TJ — August 4, 2008 @ 7:05 pm
Actually, of the few reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, this one by Brian Orndorf comes off the smartest:

http://www.brianorndorf.com/2008/08/film-review-the-midnight-meat-train.html

Like clockwork, the dismissal of this Clive Barker-inspired romp sent the gorehounds into a tizzy. However, now that “Train” is available to the masses (well, to the major cities), I wonder why horror buffs would spend so much energy trying to protect a film that’s pretty much similar to every recent genre production.

He’s right. I watched it this weekend and I couldn’t help be feel sorry for all the fanboys who are fighting Lionsgate on this one. What a terrible picture.

Comment by Michael B — August 4, 2008 @ 8:09 pm
“When a lot of fanboys-turned-critics/filmmakers (as Horror 101 wanted to assure everyone on this board that he is) are all THUMB’S WAY UP or THIS THING SUXXZ about horror films”

This comment was to be expected. Typical internet anti-horror anonymous bull. I’m a critic turned filmmaker.. and say it so proudly (Francois Truffaut, Jean Luc Goddard.. do those names ring a bell to you? Critic-turned filmmakers also). If it will mean that someday I might make a movie that will shut up the ignorant fools who have commented on this thread–the studio-loving, box-office, lame-o wannabe mainstream screenwriters/studio execs that dwell on this blog. So be it.

I’ve not seen ‘Midnight Meat Train’ because the studio took the chance away from a legion of fans who could have made up their minds about the film. Sure, the movie might be bad.. but its the general attitude that many of you display here that its truly disgusting–anti-creativity, rule-of-the-majority, mediocre-entertainment and anti-art.

Keep trashing horror. Go ahead. Those who comment against this movie on this thread deserve a horde of movies like ‘Meet Dave’ and ‘Swing Vote’ and the rest of the mediocre trash that Hollywood spoons feed every weekend… and you come back asking for more.

Comment by Horror-101 — August 4, 2008 @ 8:22 pm
First of all, Horror 101, you’re not a “critic turned filmmaker” if you’re still a critic. Truffaut and Godard (if you’re going to cite him, maybe spell his name properly) were indeed critics, as was horror director Mick Garris, as was Rod Lurie, as were many. But they all quit being critics to become filmmakers. You are still running your website Drew McWeeny-style, which is why if you ever do cobble together a film you’ll be taken about as seriously in the mainstream as he is.

Possibly even returning to Nikki Finke’s blog to complain about why Anchor Bay or whoever isn’t giving your “masterpiece” the kind of release you feel it deserves.

Oh, and here’s what you simply won’t understand and that’s okay, maybe one day you will. What you describe as a behavior you feel is “anti-art” and “anti-creativity” is a studio PROTECTING ITS INVESTMENT. When you take money from someone else, like a studio, to make a movie, they are not handing you a check out of the goodness of their heart in belief that you represent a higher power whose art needs to be delivered to the world. This is not about a patronage of the arts - especially when you’re talking about tens of millions of dollars to produce, market and distribute even a movie like “Midnight Meat Train.”

The reason a studio makes a horror film is to make money. If they think your horror film won’t make money, they’ll send it straight-to-video as they can generally re-coup in the ancillary market. You can cry and cry and cry about how “Midnight Meat Train” is high art - and maybe it is, who are we to judge? - but Lionsgate invested in the project in order to make a return on its investment. No other reason. Once you get that through your thick skull, perhaps you’ll understand that conspiracy theories are ridicu…

Oh, nevermind

Comment by Real Horror Fan — August 4, 2008 @ 10:01 pm
Wow, most of you are missing the point. Actually, that’s inaccurate - you flock over at Lionsgate are working overtime today on the Comments. This is a veritable garden of plants right now.

I think the larger point here isn’t that Lionsgate is burying MMT. MMT is one movie. It’s a movie that should have gotten a better shot, but that’s a subjective point. Here’s the crux of the issue: Lionsgate seems to be going OUT OF ITS WAY to separate itself from the genre movies that have been its bread and butter for the last ten years to make homogenized, broad bullshit that’s being made by every other production company everywhere. Does anyone here REALLY think that Tyler Perry has a shelf life of another five years? Really? Really?

Again: look at what happened to New Line. They were making great genre films, everything from NIGHTMARE to BOOGIE nights…and then they tried to turn themselves into a big studio by putting out cliched, mindless product…and they fucked themselves. THAT’S the problem here - that Lionsgate stood by and watched as they collapsed and now they think they’re going to reinvent the wheel by attempting the same thing.

Argue all you want about MMT, but in the macrocosm of the future, this is a horrible, horrible plan.

Comment by Stanley — August 4, 2008 @ 11:42 pm
Well it seems we will never know if the movie would have made the money it could have at the box office so the argument that Lionsgate made a prudent business decision holds as much weight as one that they screwed this up. And defending their decision relative to the supposed quality of the movie is laughable considering what is put out and promoted to a heavier degree on a regular basis.

Comment by Art — August 5, 2008 @ 6:28 am
The link to the DHD story I was referring to was linked to at the bottom of this article:

“…That includes Midnight Meat Train, the adaptation of the Barker short story that’s a fan fave. Supposedly the trailer tested higher than any film in Lionsgate history.”

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/angry-horror-flick-fans-threaten-lionsgate/

And as far as the reviews go, “Unusually literate by contempo slasher standards” is more than enough to put it heads and tails above most of the horror crap out there. Plus the review goes on to say “ample gore,” never mind the “despite.” No one goes to a movie called Midnight Meat Train, Saw IV, or Madea’s Family Reunion looking for academy award winning anything.

Comment by keith — August 5, 2008 @ 9:11 am
Comment by Stanley — August 4, 2008 @ 11:42 pm:

“you flock over at Lionsgate are working overtime today on the Comments. This is a veritable garden of plants right now.”

Typical delusional self-importance. Whether it’s guild strike fanboys or fanboys of anything else, disagreement equals “plant.”

Reality check: The same Lionsgate that you accuse of ignoring you by not releasing a money-losing movie is not going to bother paying attention to you now.

Note to Fans: Make the logic of your various exaggerated wailings consistent and you will be treated more seriously. For example, “Moonlight” fans complained about the Nielsen ratings system, yet attempted to use “7 million fans” which they cited from that system as an argument supporting renewal of a TV show ignored by critics and audiences alike.

Stick to one argument. Lionsgate either ignored you or is weaving a complex conspiracy against you. The former implies Lionsgate does not care enough to also do the latter, so you have to pick one.

Both arguments are, of course, wrong, but at least your histrionics would move you in one direction instead of you negating that movement with conflicting incorrect theories.

Comment by Harold — August 5, 2008 @ 11:38 am
Wow Harold…that’s a whole lot of verbiage for someone who apparently didn’t even take the time to read my post, as I was neither defending nor condemning the move on MMT. Maybe you could try commenting on the actual point I was making rather than just being reactionary and contrarian for the sake of reaction and contrariness?

However, as to my point about the Lionsgate plants…that’s 100% accurate, and that has nothing to do with me being a fan of horror (in fact, I’m not in the slightest). Based on the teeth in some of the pro-Lionsgate posts so far, it’s difficult to imagine that anyone would care enough to be that angry about someone suggesting that the film was being buried that they’re not affiliated with the studio. In fact, you seem a little too bothered by the accusation yourself, Harold. And I wasn’t even talking about your post when I was discussing plants. Hmmmmmmmm. I’ll just assume you’re bitter and unhappy, though.

Look no further that the post by “Midnight Meat Trainwreck” that basically up and fellates Drake. Based on the tone and the fact that every person at every studio reads and comments on this site and sites like it, you know I’m right.

Comment by Stanley — August 5, 2008 @ 1:14 pm
For those of you who are claiming that this is all “conspiracy theories” drummed up by bitter horror fans, I can tell you, THIS IS A TRUE SNUB FROM JOE DRAKE.

I worked on this film (yes, above the line) and have knowledge of the conference room dealings from when the original script was bought, the production of the film under Lakeshore’s guidance, through Peter Block’s departure and most recently during this dust-up over LGF’s decision to deliberately wipe the horror fans noses in their own sh!t.

Here’s some cold hard fact:

1) Drake produced The Strangers and wanted to clear the schedule for counter-programming in May. His hard R horror flick made over $50 million FOR ANOTHER STUDIO THAN THE ONE HE IS RUNNING.

2) Meat Train was put on the back burner and the decision was made to release without advertising support. That is fine. That is LGF’s choice and right. They had a deal requiring at least 100 screens, so that’s what they promised the producers and fans for the Aug 1st release.

3) they refused to release a list of any theaters to ANYONE involved with the film. When I spoke to a rep at LGF they promised the film would be in all the major urban centers at the usual LGF chains, etc. THIS WAS A BOLD FACE LIE TO KEEP THE FANS AWAY FROM THE FILM.

4) There are additional fees due to various parties involved with this film if it were to gross a meager $250 K on opening weekend. This in not profit participation (which started around $20 mil) and would have not been a huge amount of money. Far less than the amount of money the film would have made if released without any ad support in decent theaters with decent ticket prices where fans had prior knowledge and they were located in urban areas were they could find it.

5) Joe Drake has a well known personal vendetta against Peter Block and more recently Clive Barker. His desire was to quietly dump their movie and move on. What he didn’t take into account was the FANS who built LGF (and also pumped up his own resume with films of questionable quality like Boogeyman, The Eye, Strangers, etc…) would feel deserted and betrayed and would take offence to this action. He deserves hte hate mail and heat.

6) LGF could have easily let word of mouth drive Meat Train to a few million bucks if they just chucked it out to normal theaters (I’m not talking the Arclight… just your average Mann or Amc in a city near you). The money that they DIDN’T EARN by taking this vindictive approach is being paid for by the producing partners, the shareholders and the fans. THIS IS BAD BUSINESS and Drake should be held accountable to his board!

7) For those of you who want to hate on the film itself. Go ahead. We’re in the horror business. We’re used to people slamming our product for the crazy titles, gruesome violence and often questionable production value. The thing is, Meat Train, was at the very least a cut above the average horror film and had a strong buzz and want-to-see in the market. The issue here is not the film, but the way it was handled and how personal vendettas got in the way of good business practice and fan loyalty.

And that’s why you should have no qualms about posting this story Nikke, you aren’t supporting this kind of films but simply reporting, with factual evidence, on the state of a very lucrative part of the film business.

As for the rest of you haters, go ahead and cry liar and point your fingers and laugh at the title and look down your noses… but those of us who spent YEARS of our life trying to deliver something that the Clive Barker fans would appreciate can still sleep well at night knowing that our little film wasn’t a flop, it was DUMPED in the most humiliating way by an ego maniac who was caught acting like a angry six year old and in the process pissed off a lot of people.

We also know that the TRUE FANS love the film and feel very gratified that Clive’s work was treated with respect and not watered down into PG-13 pablum with the hope of drawing in a bunch of unwitting teens.

And for those of you who support the film, LONG LIVE THE MEAT!!!!

Comment by calling bullsh*t — August 5, 2008 @ 1:22 pm
Amen brother. This really makes me sad because Block’s LIONSGATE was instrumental in getting R-rated horror back in theatres a few years ago, with (Cabin Fever, Saw, High Tension, The Devil’s Rejects, Hostel, etc.) when we were stuck with pg-13 dogshit or teeny-bopper-WB cast “thrillers” throughout the late 90’s and into the new millenium. I never wanted to hate the LIONSGATE logo. It’s ok though, everytime yuppie-hollywood types try to kill hard Horror, screeaming, “Horror is dead, Horror is dead!” everytime one dissapoints at the box office, it always comes back. Always.

Comment by Gunt — August 5, 2008 @ 5:08 pm
Sorry, but the movie is terrible. Decent, almost promising first half, followed by one of the most horrendous (in the wrong way) endings I’ve ever seen. I don’t know whether it’s a bad thing or a blessing that the filmmakers seem to know they’re stuck with a crap ending (which faithfulness to the Barker story mandates) and thus rush through the climax with as little explanation or attempt to make sense as possible. Suffice it to say that word of mouth would be in the toilet among any but a small subset of genre fans… if anyone saw it.

Hope this doesn’t sound too “planty.”

Comment by Chris Willman — August 5, 2008 @ 5:28 pm
I can’t wait to see Lionsgate go the same way as New Line. I’ll be laughing my ass off. And to the horror haters, if you look down at the genre as if were shit, why do you bother to click on the link to this story? Hmm? Or aren’t we supposed to ask that question, my sweeties?

Comment by Crystal Diane Stevens — August 5, 2008 @ 5:46 pm
Hey Chris Willman -

As you probably already know,

The studio hacked the hell out of the third act during editing. The reason the movie feels rushed and disjointed at the end is because the suits who forced the changes didn’t understand what kind of movie they were making. The filmmakers did the best they could with one hand tied behind their backs. Regardless, the final product is better than 99% of other horror films out there.

ps. tell Drake I said hello.

Comment by kill trolls — August 5, 2008 @ 7:46 pm
Makes no sense, this film was sooo much more entertaining than half of the watered down PG-13, Sarah-Michelle Gellar Japanese remake bullshit you usually see. Good acting, gruesome film, this definitely would have caught a decent horror fan base if it had gone limited then wide. I enjoyed it quite a bit. I hope they release a DC on dvd so I can see it as it was intended.

Comment by Scott — August 7, 2008 @ 10:08 am

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