Nikki Finke’s Deadline Hollywood Daily » WGA Toon Writers To ‘Sit Down, Shut Up!’ Scribes: “We Are All Part Of This Fight”

WGA Toon Writers To 'Sit Down, Shut Up!' Scribes: "We Are All Part Of This Fight"

Posted by Nikki Finke on Tuesday, Jul 1st, 2008 at 07:26PM | Permalink |

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48 Comments »

who gives a s**t about you WGA scum. IATSE has animation. Get over it!!!!!
we do not try to poach your jurisdiction, so why are you walking into an IATSE show and trying to say you have jurisdiction.
remember your president, he took this of the negotiating table. You lose!!

Comment by GREG — July 1, 2008 @ 7:58 pm
Man, I can’t believe how Sony continues to screw with these writers! They already admitted PUBLICLY that they told the writers it would be a WGA show, and then they pulled the rug from under them.

If this show does go forward with SCAB WRITERS, those people should be BLACKBALLED BY WGA MEMBERS forever. They will be taking jobs away from union members who should courage an integrity.

Also, I hope the California Dept. of Labor gets involved. These Sony Assholes are breaking a lot of laws.

Comment by PlayFair — July 1, 2008 @ 8:11 pm
All this would’ve been freakin settled no questions asked if Patric/David hadn’t dumped animation before “negotiations” even started…Yo, Pat-Dave see the shit that could’ve been avoided if you stuck to your guns and kept your word?

Comment by Hank Hollyweird — July 1, 2008 @ 8:17 pm
Dear GREG:

Sony originally pitched the show as a WGA deal. Midway when the show is picked up they changed shop. The writers were lied to and the only recourse is to strike back. How would you feel about that? Though you guys are so reamed by T. Short already that you probably can labor the pain.

Comment by P. Lee — July 1, 2008 @ 9:21 pm
Just curious, PlayFair, which laws are being broken?

Comment by playfair? — July 1, 2008 @ 9:23 pm
How ironic. These writers/showrunners are struggling for equality. Meanwhile, there’s not a woman in the bunch.

Mix it up, boys. Women, where are you?

Comment by golden rule — July 1, 2008 @ 9:45 pm
Hi GREG.

I know you’re just having some fun with your internet friends, but please watch your language, honey.

And please be aware that IATSE covers the writers of many non-primetime animated shows, but the WGA covers all primetime animated shows. So it’s not as straight forward as you’re saying.

Also, if you were keeping up with this story you would know that Sony hired ALL WGA writers, told them all the show would be WGA (they were “working it out”) and then at the last minute told them it would be IATSE… little bit tricky.

Don’t stay up too late playing on the web, sweetie — you need your rest if you’re going to be your best!

Comment by Greg's Mom — July 1, 2008 @ 10:05 pm
Golden Rule–

You wrote, “…there’s not a woman in the bunch…”

Garland Marie Testa is a woman and Glenn Berger is a vegan, so he’s almost a woman. It’s a start.

Comment by WG — July 1, 2008 @ 11:26 pm
Playfair? wrote:
“Just curious, PlayFair, which laws are being broken?”

Okay pal, you asked for it, you got it:

Under California labor law, it is crystal clear that employers cannot withhold wages for work already performed, as Sony did.

California labor code, section 204b states:

Labor performed by a weekly-paid employee during any calendar week
and prior to or on the regular payday shall be paid for not later
than the regular payday of the employer for such weekly-paid employee
falling during the following calendar week.
Labor performed by a weekly-paid employee during any calendar week
and subsequent to the regular payday shall be paid for not later
than seven days after the regular payday of the employer for such
weekly-paid employee falling during the following calendar week.

Employees must be paid within seven days of the end of each work-week. The law is clear. Furthermore, the law specifically states that wages may not be withheld pending the signing of a contract:

California labor code section 206.5: No employer shall require the execution of any release of
any claim or right on account of wages due, or to become due, or made
as an advance on wages to be earned, unless payment of such wages
has been made. Any release required or executed in violation of the
provisions of this section shall be null and void as between the
employer and the employee and the violation of the provisions of this
section shall be a misdemeanor.

In other words, the studios cannot say: You won’t get paid until you sign your contract.

Want more laws that were broken by Sony? Okay, here:

206. (a) In case of a dispute over wages, the employer shall pay,
without condition and within the time set by this article, all wages,
or parts thereof, conceded by him to be due, leaving to the employee
all remedies he might otherwise be entitled to as to any balance
claimed.

Certainly Sony has never disputed that the “Sit Down, Shut Up!” workers performed their duties for a couple of months, and thus were entitled, certainly, to at least minimum wage, currently $8.00 an hour in California. But Sony paid them nothing during those two months. Nada. Zilch. Zip. This is illegal and actionable. In fact, the law even calls for substantial penalties when employers willfully refuse to pay wages they know to be owed.

There you have it. Lots of laws. Important laws. Broken.

Have a good night.

Comment by Legal Eagle — July 2, 2008 @ 12:30 am
Where the hell are Jim Brooks, Matt Groening and PATRIC VERRONE’S names?!

Comment by simon says strike! — July 2, 2008 @ 6:37 am
SAG and WGA seems to back each other up when it comes labor issues. I would like to know how the actors cast for this show feel. A letter with their names on it would mean a lot, especially in light of SAGs troubles right now. Where are the actors?

And more important than that even, where are the directors? Why haven’t they spoken up? I can’t think of any talent more important to these WGA animation shows than the directors, arguably as important as the writers. Where is their support? How do they feel about this?

Comment by badclamz — July 2, 2008 @ 6:39 am
If the WGA covers writers of other prime-time animated shows as Greg’s mom says, why is there a problem with this one?

Comment by dimes — July 2, 2008 @ 7:08 am
Hey thanks LegalEagle!

Can you tell me, us, what action has been taken by the writers whom haven’t been paid?

Are Sony’s writers typically ‘weekly’ employees, or contract- per script?

You are obviously more up on legal issues, what with your name and all, but isn’t there a difference between weekly employees, and contract employees, toss in script fees instead of salaries, and the whole thing is a mess!

At least it was when I went to the WGA’s wage and hours seminar they did back when they were trying to organize reality shows.

Comment by playfair? — July 2, 2008 @ 7:18 am
It’s nice to see the Simpsons and the Family Guy writers coming together on the letter. Now if only their fans could stop sniping one another…

Comment by Rich D — July 2, 2008 @ 7:26 am
Same old story. Why is it that, time and time again, creative people get suckered into thinking that the same big media rules that they are sick of in their current creative medium suddenly, magically, MIRACULOUSLY! don’t apply in other creative mediums. In fact, the animation market is historically thousands of times WORSE than live action when it comes to getting something different and new on the air.

Hurwitz wants to make cartoons but is talking to all the wrong people. The Sit Down Shut Up project was likely cobbled together by agents and managers looking for big Family Guy paydays and lining up all their ducks in a neat and safe little row just like every other Fox franchise. Sony corporate throws in a wrench that doesn’t follow the game plan and all hell breaks loose. Its pathetic watching these hangers-on stumbling over each other to reach for the Matt Groening Fox Cartoon Franchise Promised Land. The project deal-making stinks of safe. Sony Adelaide is not the place to do anything different. Fox is heading that way, too, as far as animation is concerned.

This mess is a blessing in disguise. Diving head first into the primetime animation market is asking for trouble. Believe it or not, there is an alternative animation and cartoon market! No shit! God forbid any of these studio execs ever turn to those people to create animation for them. No, that would make way too much sense! At the very least, Jim Brooks actually turned to a cartoonist to get the ball rolling. Imagine that! How revolutionary!

Very talented writers spun Simpsons into a sit-com. But the genius was Brooks, Simon and Matts relationship and their shared vision. It was daring and new. And on top of that, the first Simpsons directors were blow-your-mind talents, many of whom have gone on to do incredible things since. And these were experienced cartoon animation people from interesting animation backgrounds who were itching to finally stretch their chops on television. I remember the Tracy Ullman shorts first and foremost when I think of the Simpsons. Funny, original, and revolutionary television. All the kernels were there, directly from Matts head, through the directors warped brains, and out of Murdochs shiny brand new FOX TV butt.)

Unfortunately, this fiasco is making IATSE artists and writers, many of them stellar talent, look like bad guys and that is so unfair, and typical WGA posturing. It is a really good thing that this show is not going forward. These jobs are not worth fighting for, WGA or IATSE. Sony just needs to pull the plug and thank their lucky stars that they are not going to be the next plug-and-chug primetime animation Frankenstein and join the body count of Mission Hill, Oblongs, Fish Police, God Devil Bob, and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on….

Comment by Anonymous — July 2, 2008 @ 7:53 am
Dear Patric,

Why did you promise to get animation covered and take it off the table almost immediately into the process? Why did you ask the 839 animation writers to help with the strike (picketing, loading trucks, handing out leaflets on the weekends) and then not even invite them to the post-strike party? Why did you promise, immediately following the strike’s conclusion, that in 2 weeks you were going to start the process to get animation covered by the WGA, and then do absolutely nothing?

The one thing you have going for you is that your members seem to believe your rhetoric rather than the facts (everything in the preceding paragraph is a fact). Had you kept any of your promises regarding animation, this would never have been an issue.

… but don’t blame Patric (even a little) - after all, he’s done so well for the industry so far!

Comment by PatricHasNothingHere — July 2, 2008 @ 8:06 am
I would like to clarify WG’s comment. I am no longer a vegan. I am still, however, very much a woman.

Comment by Glenn — July 2, 2008 @ 9:32 am
PatricHasNothingHere and others –

During the strike, the WGA leadership was forced to take animation and reality/game show jurisdiction off the table because the AMPTP successfully made them wedge issues with the membership. Blame the AMPTP (or if you want, the WGA membership), not Patric Verrone.

And if you want the jurisdiction situation to change, GET INVOLVED. The Guild has several efforts in the offing, I’m sure they’d love to have your help.

Comment by Ashley Gable — July 2, 2008 @ 10:41 am
Hey PlayFair? –

Sony is ALSO in violation of California Penal Code 203.
These are the facts. I would gladly like to hear your thought out rebuttal, and what FACTS are on your side. Not just just open ended questions and innuendo.

203. If an employer willfully fails to pay, without abatement or
reduction, in accordance with Sections 201, 201.5, 202, and 205.5,
any wages of an employee who is discharged or who quits, the wages of
the employee shall continue as a penalty from the due date thereof
at the same rate until paid or until an action therefor is commenced;
but the wages shall not continue for more than 30 days. An employee
who secretes or absents himself or herself to avoid payment to him
or her, or who refuses to receive the payment when fully tendered to
him or her, including any penalty then accrued under this section, is
not entitled to any benefit under this section for the time during
which he or she so avoids payment.
Suit may be filed for these penalties at any time before the
expiration of the statute of limitations on an action for the wages
from which the penalties arise.

Comment by PlayFair — July 2, 2008 @ 10:48 am
SONY’S COMEDIES:

“Til Death” - AFTRA scab show
“Rules For Engagement” - AFTRA scab show
“Sit Down Shut Up” - IATSE scab show

This company has clear pattern of anti-labor practices. All talented individuals with any choice should avoid it.

Comment by UnionMade — July 2, 2008 @ 10:51 am
One thing that must be said on behalf of all WGA writers is that the writers on “Sit Down, Shut Up!” are heroes for doing this.

Because of them, now all the studios know that if they try to do a primetime show that’s not WGA, production will be shut down and the show will go away.

From now on it will be clear from the get-go that all primetime shows are WGA, as they should be. So thanks, guys.

Comment by WGA all the way — July 2, 2008 @ 2:18 pm
UnionMade -

Wow - you’re calling the entire IATSE labor force scab. You must not want to work in this town. Next time try putting your name to what you post. See how well that works out for ya.

Comment by talented individual — July 2, 2008 @ 2:54 pm
talented individual,

Yeah, UnionMade’s characterization is too harsh. But I understand the point to be that Sony has a pattern of using those unions specifically to block the jurisdictions of SAG and WGA. While AFTRA and IATSE are fine unions in their own right, they are chosen by Sony because they have a weaker set of standards for actors and writers on those shows. The “star” players (showrunners, stars) still get the same money and/or benefits, but the other writers and actors get lower minimums and weaker benefits. It also hurts them if, say, they have most of their pension and health through the other union (SAG, WGA), and now they interrupt that or don;t contribute to that because they are working these “alternate” union-covered jobs.

It is a lame game, but they pit unions against each other to do their dirty work. Even in this case, Sony repeatedly claims they can do nothing to make it WGA because they are afraid of what 839 will do, but Steve Hulett has said on his blog that he doesn;t care if this show is WGA and that Sony is just using them as an excuse.

So even though it is unfair to say they’re “scab” shows, the sad truth is Sony is on some level using one union to “scab” another…

Comment by Greg's Mom — July 2, 2008 @ 3:56 pm
Greg’s Mom -

I agree that Sony is not the greatest place to work, but they are getting what they want when union people start calling each other scabs. In animation especially this kind of talk is a complete slap. The writers by all accounts made a clear and decisive move, and that is very respectable. Sony can make their move accordingly, but this beating up of IATSE, especially on Nikki’s site (you definitely fed this fire with your original reporting, Nikki) is wrong. Now, if you really want to talk labor in animation, here’s some perspective

-Sony of course, rakes in the the lions share.
-14 or so Writer/Producers, about 5% of total staff, earn, or have potential to earn in the six figures, often well above, and 6-10 SAG actors as well.
-5-10 Directors and AD’s are happy if they make it to six figures
-25-75 artists stateside in various positions pay the bills.
-anywhere from 300-700 artists in Korea, pulling 90% of the weight, bunk in their ‘cubes’ overnight and get fed.

Looks a lot like our current global economy, doesn’t it? (the one that is currently imploding for the states.) A nice, big, long, happy conga line circling the globe and back, with a giant suction raking the ad dollars right from clueless 18-34 yr-old johhny’s pocket and directly into those of the LA elite. Now, I’m not saying IATSE people’s hands are clean in all of this either. But I would bet that more animation directors than WGA producers have made trips to the far east to see it all first hand, for better or worse.

Everyone is taking it hard now. People on the bottom the worst, of course. The ones below are, I assure you all, NOT SCABS.

BTW, thanks for the milk and cookies.

Comment by talented individual — July 2, 2008 @ 5:02 pm
It’s great to see Jonathon Aibel’s and Glenn Berger’s names on the letter posted above, since they are the credited writers on the NON-W.G.A. animated Dreamworks movie, Kung Fu Panda. It would, however, be more courageous of them to fight for W.G.A. coverage for those of us who write for feature animation — or are they afraid of biting Jeffrey’s hand that feeds them?

Comment by Ted — July 2, 2008 @ 5:08 pm
So righteous that the grunts who ARE weekly worker ants who execute what they write will have no money to pay rent. I have no sympathy for anyone who’s griping about not getting extra money later on after the work has been done for months and years. So many writers so moral and ethical that only when their interests are endangered do they speak up. The buck is the bottom line. Admit it, or at least some of you would realize the laws that the lawmakers break are a little more important than that backend dollar. Greed breeds greed.

Comment by A. Grunt — July 2, 2008 @ 5:15 pm
Sony shuns SAG and WGA to their detriment. Talented showrunners no longer bring their pilots to Sony. Instead they wind up with bubble shows like the unwatchable Til Death and Rules of Engagement.

Anything and anyone of any merit will go elsewhere, even moreso after SDSU stunt.

Comment by Anonymous — July 2, 2008 @ 5:27 pm
Talented Individual,

I guess I’m missing the ethical nuance that lets you post anonymously while trashing someone else for posting anonymously.

And I assume you chose the pseudonym “Talented Individual” because that way anyone you’ve ever worked with would never suspect it was you.

Comment by Not my real name — July 2, 2008 @ 5:40 pm
talented individual,

I agree with you that this is not about IATSE bashing. I certainly never meant to gave that impression — I think the studios are just using these unions against each other.

I support all the artists and production workers on these shows — they should all be paid more fairly and have a greater share in the success of these shows. I really believe that.

The real sign that something is awry here is that this show hired 14 writers, ALL of whom are affiliated with the WGA, then tried to trick and/or force (depending on your interpretation) all of them to work under IATSE contracts. Sony has every right to make a show that is covered by IATSE. Why didn’t they hire any IATSE writers? Then they would have had no problem at all! Even if they had hired a FEW IATSE writers it might be less transparent. But it is hard to look at this situation and not see that there is something “off” about the fact that they hired 14 WGA writers and then said “not WGA.”

It would be the same thing if a group of IATSE members were hired on a show and then told it was going to be covered by the “Drawing People Union.” Sorry, guys, but the minimums are lower and also you will get a different health plan and by the way we will contribute to the Drawer’s Union Pension but it will take you 9 years to vest. It sort of begins to obviate the point of being in a union at all.

Now if only my son would start looking for some gainful employment…

Comment by Greg's Mom — July 2, 2008 @ 9:02 pm
A. Grunt,

It is clear on many levels that you are not a writer.

Comment by greg's mom — July 2, 2008 @ 9:03 pm
Talented Individual -

While IATSE is a true union when it comes to representing many below the line workers, it is NOT a real union when it comes to repping writers. They have ZERO support for writers, NEVER involve themselves in issues such as separated rights, script registration, script arbitration, residuals etc. Even the president of the IATSE Animation Guild publicly expresses his ambivalence for repping writers. To suggest that IA is a “real” union for writers is a cynical joke. On these message boards, I’ve NEVER seen a post by an IA writer sticking up for his union. NOT ONE. Have you?

In case you don’t know this history of this industry, IATSE has often been used by the studios as a battering ram to hurt other unions. You might want to check out this history lesson on an IATSE LOCAL’S OWN SITE:

http://www.iatse728.org/home/strike.htm

Comment by StopTheBullCrap — July 2, 2008 @ 10:35 pm
Re: “Comment by Ted — July 2, 2008 @ 5:08 pm”

Is that Ted Elliott?

Comment by Anon — July 2, 2008 @ 11:18 pm
StopTheBullCrap wrote Even the president of the IATSE Animation Guild publicly expresses his ambivalence for repping writers.

Since I’m the president of the Animation Guild I’d be curious to know where I’ve revealed my supposed ambivalence for TAG representing writers. Perhaps you can enlighten us.

The reality is that the Animation Guild has repped animation writers for almost six decades, and we work as hard for writers as we do for all the other animation job classifications. Our business agent is a former animation writer, and three of our executive board members are working writers. Like all unions, we don’t get everything we want, but the charge that TAG doesn’t care about writers and doesn’t fight for them is nonsense.

You also wrote On these message boards, I’ve NEVER seen a post by an IA writer sticking up for his union. NOT ONE. Have you?

I’ve attempted to leave a comment here at Deadlinehollywooddialy three different times, usually to correct misinformation in either an original post or in the comments sections. Unlike most here, I use my real name and link back to the Animation Guild blog. None of those comments have ever been allowed through. You can decide why that is, but don’t take the fact that no comments defending the Animation Guild are published to mean that no such comments are ever written.

Comment by Kevin — July 3, 2008 @ 8:35 am
Perhaps I overstated your position. But you’ve definitely expressed your ambivalence about the SDSU situation, saying it was a dispute between the writers and you guys wanted nothing to do with it. Also, on your blog, you and your blogmate Steve seem to readily admit that writers are better served by the WGA than the 839, because you balance their needs with the needs everyone else in IA. Do I get this wrong? (I’m referring to your defense of the practice that IA writers get no residuals.)

Comment by StopTheBullCrap! — July 3, 2008 @ 4:47 pm
Actually, STBC, you completely misstated my position. There is a difference, though I thank you for your partial acknowledgement.

You’re correct that Steve has written that the SDSU situation is the result of miscommunication and misrepresentation between that group of writers and management at Sony, and didn’t involve the Animation Guild or the IATSE riding in to do a back room deal. The TAG contract with Sony Adelaide has been in existence for at least a dozen years, and that deal includes writers. As has been pointed out, Sony management could have made arrangements to put the SDSU writers in a separate production company, one that could have been organized by the WGA, but Sony would have needed to do that from the start. There are legal issues in starting a production under one union’s representation and then switching midstream. If any of the writers or writer’s agents had bothered to call the TAG office to clarify the situation when they were initially informed that it was an IA/TAG show (which the writers have acknowledged they were told), a lot of grief could have been avoided. I’ve been told that someone high up on the management side subsequently made a promise they couldn’t keep, but it still would have only taken a phone call to clarify things out before they reached the breaking point.

The shame of it is that it now appears that the entire show might well be scuttled. That sucks for the 14 writers, and it sucks for the scores of artists and animation professionals who were counting on that show for salary and benefits.

As a side note, and contrary to what gets spread around, there is no war between TAG and the WGA. The WGA frequently makes statements that misrepresent the situation in animation and that misrepresent what TAG actually offers, but frankly it’s just so much hot air. TAG has represented writers and story artists in animation for close to 60 years, and I’m convinced that if TAG didn’t exist then a large portion of those people wouldn’t be covered by ANY union. Yes, the WGA has done a good job over the last 8-10 years of covering most prime-time animation writers. And we don’t begrudge them that in the slightest. We love it when creative people, be they artists or writers, get good deals. In the past Steve and I have met with WGA organizers to discuss joint efforts at organizing some of the animation studios that aren’t covered by any union.

But if you look at the WGA’s lack of success in animation outside of prime-time TV, and if you look at the concessionary contracts they’ve signed in the few cases where they have succeeded outside of prime time (i.e., NO residuals), then you’ll start to understand what I’m getting at.

If you cut through the hyperbole and hysteria, TAG provides excellent benefits and decent wages for those in animation, despite animation’s status as the red haired step child of Hollywood. Sure, it’s unfair, but ‘fair’ never carried a bit of weight in this town.

By the way, residuals are collected for those working under the Animation Guild contracts (writers, animators, and everyone else we cover). Those residuals go into the benefits plan, which is why our health coverage (and the ease with which a writer can qualify for that coverage) is superior to that of the WGA. Last year over $350 million dollars in residuals went the Motion Picture Pension and Health Plan coffers, to provide for the benefits of those in the Animation Guild (and other west coast local). Yeah, it’s not mailbox money, but residuals are. collected and do benefit the creatives (writers AND artists) on those shows.

Comment by Kevin — July 3, 2008 @ 8:46 pm
After reading all of this, I wonder if anyone can explain to me what it meant when the WGA listed as one of its bargaining chips that it should have jurisdiction over animation. What does this mean?

As I understand labor, aren’t employees generally organized first, thereby leveraging management to capitulate? As in what the WGA did for Simpsons at Fox? If the WGA states it wants animation, are they saying they want to cover everyone creating for animation? Or do they grandfather out current productions and accept all future animation? Writers already organized in animation and writers not organized in animation? Artists who also write in animation? It is unclear what that demand was about. Although it is obvious it has created a lot of animosity.

Comment by animation observer — July 4, 2008 @ 9:53 am
The writers on Til Death are WGA. It’s a Sony show, on Fox, prime time, so why can’t the writers on SDSU be WGA? I know the set is AFTRA. That stinks and Brad Garrett, the cast and staff should protest that. I’ve never met an AFTRA actor who didn’t want to join SAG instead.

What if, in solidarity, every Sony actor, writer, director, worker, on every prime time show walked off for a day in protest? We should get to be in the union of our choice, NOT OF SONY’S CHOICE.

Better yet, why doesn’t SAG and AFTRA merge? And the WGA and IATSE merge? Both our unions would be bigger. We wouldn’t bicker back and forth. We could use the best benefits each union had to offer to rebuild the new combined union. I’m sure no studio wants to see this happen, but bottom feeders like Sony wouldn’t have a choice if there were only one actors union and one writers union.

We creatives need to stick together. Let’s JOIN together. Until then, those who have the power; the show runners, the big name actors, respected writers - should demand that the shows they work on will only be SAG and WGA.

Good for the writers of SDSU for taking a stand! All of the animation writers who want to join the WGA should walk off the job next week, too. Everyone sticks together, they can’t replace us all. They’ll have to deal with our demands.

Comment by STICK TOGETHER — July 4, 2008 @ 8:10 pm
Hi Kevin.

I am a “dual” card holder. I have worked quite a bit in both unions, and unfortunately it does cause some inconsistencies and issues in health insurance and retirement planning, but that’s life. I do appreciate your thoughtful response.

I also want to add that I believe TAG is an excellent union, and I am aware of the great health coverage and the different residual structure. I am also aware (from some experience on the management side) that TAG fights fiercely to protect its members, their working conditions, etc.

And while I have never met you, I have met Steve H. several times, so I know and trust the union leadership. Steve is hard-working, passionate, cares about the members, and he’s also has a great no-nonsense ability to cut through the B.S. I suspect that STBC conflated you and Steve in mis-stating TAG’s position.

This paragraph you wrote struck me:

“The shame of it is that it now appears that the entire show might well be scuttled. That sucks for the 14 writers, and it sucks for the scores of artists and animation professionals who were counting on that show for salary and benefits.”

It seems to me that TAG and WGA should both have motivation to find a way for this to work, and NOT have the show scuttled. Many members from both unions will lose jobs if a solution is not reached.

This seems like a wonderful opportunity for TAG and the WGA to do something together that will protect all their members in these shows… hammer out a compromise on this one, bring it to Sony, make it happen — since Sony’s official rejection of the writers’ request is based on claiming that their hands are tied by their obligations to your union and to IATSE, a compromise that was brought as a joint proposal of BOTH unions to save ALL the jobs might work.

Sony would get its show, and they would get to do the “right” thing in fulfilling their obligations to both unions.

And all these people would get to work.

What do you think? Is there a reason why this isn’t a desirable solution to pursue?

Thanks for your attention… hope I’m not being too naive about this, but my sense is that at least within TAG and WGA there are good intentions all around, and it would be great if you could work together.

Comment by TAG and WGA member — July 5, 2008 @ 11:44 am
Thanks, TAG/WGA member, for the good words. It warms my heart to see some of what you wrote in print (we hear this stuff privately, but public acknowledgement is sadly rare). You wrote “It seems to me that TAG and WGA should both have motivation to find a way for this to work, and NOT have the show scuttled. Many members from both unions will lose jobs if a solution is not reached.”

If it were an easy thing to break one union’s contract to replace it with another’s, studios would find ways to do it all the time. First and foremost, every party involved (Sony, TAG, the IATSE, and the WGA) would all have to cooperate. Cooperation between TAG and the WGA would not be sufficient. But even then there’s a problem. Here’s a very brief summary from Craig Mazin at artfulwriter.com summarizing why this compromise is impossible: And IA couldn’t just “let the writers go” if they wanted to. Doesn’t work that way. There has to be a deauthorization vote, everyone in the unit votes including non-writing members who don’t have another union to even go to, yadda yadda, long story short…ain’t happening.

Later you wrote: “. . .my sense is that at least within TAG and WGA there are good intentions all around . . .”

I wish I could agree with you that the WGA has had good intentions all around, or that TAG’s intentions were taken into consideration for even a moment in this whole mess.

The first anyone at TAG heard about his was when it was already in the press, with the WGA trumpeting that this was proof that the studios intended to undercut the WGA [”And then IATSE’s Local 839 — the so-called Animation Guild Local (formerly Motion Picture Screen Cartoonists) — arrived to everyone’s shock and dismay.“]. We also read statements from WGA mouthpieces that were less than accurate about TAG (something that’s been going on a long time, and has actually made things worse for working writers). Not exactly the basis for compromise and working together.

To date, no one from the SDSU writers, the writer’s agents, or the WGA has contacted anyone at TAG in an official capacity to try to work anything out. Steve Hulett did bump into one of the involved writers, and got a little background information, but that’s been it for direct contact. You can’t work together by yourself.

Here’s the summary: Someone at the WGA should have explained to the writers months ago that they had two options. One, use their leverage to bargain for a WGA-like deal under TAG (it’s been done before, and my word is that Sony was willing to do it here). Two, screw the show, and let the entire crew get flushed when the show is dumped. There really hasn’t been a third option from the start.

Comment by Kevin — July 6, 2008 @ 8:39 am
WE THE ARTIST should get to choose our union. Period. Not Sony. Sony needs to legally undo their connection to these cheap-money-saving unions or risk not doing business with pro WGA and SAG members. Come on Brad Garrett, David Spade, Hudson — all the rest of you Sony stars, take a stand!

At the very least the WGA and IASTSE should sumo wrestle to win reign supreme on Sony’s projects. Sell tickets and proceeds go to the strike relief fund.

Comment by Ain't Gonna Happen' — July 6, 2008 @ 11:04 am
Kevin,

You seemed like you were having a reasonable, professional discussion about this until you said: “Two, screw the show, and let the entire crew get flushed when the show is dumped.”

Now I see you’re just another corporate tool lackey like your boss. How’d you like it if someone said that about your members — that if they wanted a show to be under their regular union they were really just screwing the rest of the people who worked on the show.

That’s management propaganda, pal. I’m not surprised to hear that coming from IATSE, but don’t act like your above it and out for the working writer and then drop all this crap on us. What a jerk.

Seriously, EVERY primetime animated show is WGA. Every single one. Couple that with the fact that — AS YOU YOURSELF SAY — a “high-ranking” Sony exec told the writers it would be WGA, and who are the ones getting screwed here? Seems like it’s the WGA writers, not the other members of the crew. Sure if the show goes away they’ll lose their jobs, and nobody wants that to happen, but did you forget that you run a union? For workers? How’d you like it if IATSE struck and it meant the shutdown of a project and everyone said, “IATSE doesn’t care about anyone else” or “IATSE should take a bad deal so others can stay employed.” You are just another IATSE management mouthpiece.

What a damn shame and an outrage for you to act like you’re a real union or a real union man. You’re an embarrassment.

Comment by WGA writer — July 8, 2008 @ 12:41 am
WGA writer, I decided long ago that ad hominem attacks by anonymous trolls weren’t worth my time, so I’ll let the shrill and sadly predictable portions of your response roll off my back.

I acknowledge that I used some inflammatory phrases in detailing the ’second option,’ but it’s still accurate. The writers and their agents were originally informed that SDSU was a TAG 839 show. That is not in dispute. Despite what any high-ranking Sony exec might have said subsequently, if the writer’s agents had investigated (i.e., made a single phone call), or if someone at the WGA had bothered to explain to them how labor law works, they would have realized they had only the two options I described.

Let me put the last paragraph in less pejorative terms:

Someone at the WGA should have explained to the writers months ago that they had two options. One, use their leverage to bargain for a WGA-like deal under TAG (it’s been done before, and my information is that Sony was willing to do it here). Two, continue to work on the show so other writers wouldn’t be hired, then refuse to continue working at the point when entire crew was hired and ready to put the show into full production, thereby making it extremely likely that everyone would be let go and the show canceled. There really hasn’t been a third option from the start.

You should also know that, while all four Fox prime-time animated shows have writers covered by the WGA, there HAVE been plenty of prime-time shows written under TAG 839, including the recent Father of the Pride. In fact, the Father of the Pride brouhaha, which was pretty much parallel the SDSU debacle, should have alerted writers and agents everywhere that in fact the WGA does not and has never had some kind of automatic coverage of prime-time animation.

What’s happened on SDSU has been a disaster for both the writers and animators involved. Unfortunately, the animators have been along for the ride, and have had no say as the bus had been driven over a cliff. Sorry if that offends, but it’s the truth. Yes, there are Sony execs who have dirty hands in this deal. I don’t dispute that for a moment. But this has also been a PR bonanza for the WGA, which loses nothing if the show is canceled, and in fact can point to the show being canceled as a triumph of standing up to the corporate masters. It’s ironic, but not surprising, that you see no shame or outrage in that.

Comment by Kevin — July 9, 2008 @ 12:58 pm
Hi Kevin, are you really the leader of this union? You don’t sound very professional, or statesmanlike, or capable of leadership. Well, that’s not fair. You did in your first few posts here, which were well thought out and measured. But then in those last two posts the wheels came off. Did you let your emotions get the best of you, or are you simply a hothead? Either way, if I were a member of your union, do you think I’d want my leader going on record using words like “troll” and acting juvenile? I doubt it.

As for your last post, I guess you’re being sarcastic when you say, “Let me put that last paragraph in less pejorative terms” because what follows is as nasty and disingenuous as possible.

Do you really think that the writers on this show only had one option (since your second option given is just a facetious bit of nastiness). You say their only option was to bargain for “a WGA-like deal under TAG.” First of all, Kevin, I’ve been a WGA writer for many, many years. I never even heard of TAG until this current dispute. You seem to think you head a union along the lines of SAG, DGA or WGA but I’m sorry to say no one has really heard of you. I suppose you really exist but you certainly can’t really believe that a bunch of high-profile WGA writers would take a job — on a primetime show — thinking that it was going to involve working under the umbrella of some third-tier union they never heard of.

I mean, Sony obviously went after a bunch of WGA writers. Established, real writers like Hurwitz, Oakley, and Weinstein. And they went after these writers for a primetime scripted network show, every other one of which is a WGA show. And as you yourself admit above, a HIGH-RANKING Sony exec was telling them IT WOULD BE a WGA show. Why would these writers have done it otherwise? Why would they want their union contributions to go to some wannabe union that no one ever heard of and that apparently exists to represent writers working on the umpteenth version of Scooby Doo or something.

Seriously, Kevin, are you delusional? If there is some legal reason why Sony was unable to ever make this a WGA show — which I highly doubt — then isn’t your beef with Sony, not the WGA or its writers? If, as you say, you had information that Sony “was willing to do” a “WGA-like deal under TAG” then obviously your “information” ain’t worth crap, because again, as you yourself said, a HIGH-RANKING Sony exec was telling the writers that it would be WGA.

And I haven’t even gotten to the truly shocking — and stupid — part of your last post, which is when you say: the SDSU writers only other choice “was to continue to work so that other writers wouldn’t be hired” then “refuse to work once the rest of the cast was hired and the show was about to go into full production.” Don’t you think it much more likely that these writers — who were being told by a HIGH-RANKING Sony exec that it would be WGA — were thinking this exec was going to make it happen, and that these writers were led on for weeks, into months, and then when the show was finally about to begin “full production” these writers finally said “okay, enough, this is ridiculous, we can’t keep showing up if they’re not going to come through on what a HIGH-RANKING exec has been telling us.” I think that’s much more likely what happened, Kevin, and you know what — that IS what happened.

It’s truly incendiary of you to say the writers timed this intentionally to screw the rest of the cast. And it shows what a management-friendly tool you are that you point the finger at 14 lied-to writers instead of at the company that lied to them. What is the matter with you, Kevin? What kind of unhappy childhood must you have had to become such a sad little man, a man who claims to the public to represent writers, yet who repeatedly attacks writers every chance he gets. The writers “drove this bus over a cliff”? No, Kevin — this bus went over the cliff because Sony removed the bridge.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Comment by Another anonymous troll — July 9, 2008 @ 10:39 pm
Mitch Hurwtiz’s partner, Tannenbaum, was promising the writers that SDSU would be WGA. Now Mitch is calling half the writers trying to get them to come back, perhaps to cause a rift?! What the heck did we strike for MITCH??? It’s show runners like you that keeps the little guy down. Thanks for nothing!

Comment by Smarten Up Mitch! — July 10, 2008 @ 4:56 pm
Mitch Hurwitz is not a friend of the writer. Ask any writer who worked 7 days a week non-stop on Arrested Development. Also, ask Mitch how many days he picketed during the WGA strike. He bragged about it being less than a handful because he had to supervise building his new multimillion dollar mansion in the Palisades. How’d you like to be that contractor, by the way? Mitch is a good writer and can be a nice guy, but ultimately he’s out for himself. He has enough money that he should do the right thing here and stay strong behind the writers until the show is WGA. You haven’t been the bad guy in this so far, Mitch, don’t start now!

Comment by suffered under mitch — July 10, 2008 @ 6:47 pm
Kevin,

Sounds like you could have done something to keep those animators from being driven off a cliff, but you stood by and complained “no one was contacting you.” You should be fighting for our jobs.

This is Sony’s fault, but you are complicit in letting those jobs go away without a fight. Even if you had ultimately failed you could have done SOMETHING to fight for our members.

Comment by 839 Member — July 13, 2008 @ 7:41 am
Kevin, you said:

“The writers and their agents were originally informed that SDSU was a TAG 839 show. That is not in dispute.”

This is wrong actually. The first writers hired were not told.

A few can prove they were told more than a week after they had started working.

Later writers hired were told, then immediately assured it was going to be “fixed.”

The statement you made may be Sony’s party line at this point, but it’s not true. But should that be surprising?

Comment by SDSU writer — July 13, 2008 @ 8:52 am
Despite my skepticism that “839 Member” is really a member of TAG, I’ll respond. You say it sounds like I could have done something. I’d love to know what I or Steve Hulett or anyone at TAG could have done about a situation that we had absolutely zero knowledge about until it was a fait accompli. We got wind of what was happening when it broke here at Deadline Hollywood Daily. That was a few months after the whole situation began, and well after there was any room to maneuver.

Sony could have chosen to put the writers into a shell production company, and allowed that production company to be organized. But they needed to do that at the very beginning. They chose not to, even when the writers complained. From that point on, the die was cast. No one at 839 has the power or ability to unilaterally disavow jurisdiction.

As for us fighting for those jobs, it’s up to Sony whether the show gets made. No union, TAG, WGA, SAG, DGA, and the Teamsters included, can greenlight a show. Sony took this production down the path it’s followed; that’s been something TAG has no control over.

You can be sure that we’ve spoken to the IATSE, to Sony reps, and even to WGA reps about the situation. I’d love it if this were in TAG’s control. But it ain’t.

Now, maybe when you write “you could have done SOMETHING to fight for our members” I’d love to hear what you specifically have in mind? Was there some trick we missed, some card we could have played? If so, I’ll be the first to admit it, and try to rectify the situation. But empty rhetoric isn’t action.

To SDSU writer, I believe you. What I wrote was based on what Steve Hulett was told by one of the SDSU writers, by what Sony labor relations has told us, and by what we’ve heard from some other well-placed sources I won’t identify, but who were in a position to know. Nikki has also written that the writers were initially told it was an IA show. But I realize that there are 14 writers involved, and that they weren’t all hired at the same time nor necessarily told the same thing.

I think the consistency here is that at least some of the writers and their agents knew early on in the process that the show was slated to be a TAG show, and when they balked, a prominent Sony exec quickly gave assurances (assurances that he wasn’t authorized to give). And Sony do not follow through on those assurances, the show remained a TAG show, months later it all blew up in the press, and here we are.

I think it’s clear that writers were misled, and that sucks. But the problem remains that once the boat left the dock, once production got started under the TAG contract, switching the writers to a new production company so they could be organized under the WGA was no longer really an option. Labor law just doesn’t work that way. (I should also note that, to my knowledge, Sony has never contacted TAG about even exploring such an option, so it’s not like we’ve even been given the chance to try to find a solution.)

Comment by Kevin — July 14, 2008 @ 2:23 pm

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