EXCLUSIVE (keep refreshing for latest news): This is a virtual repeat of how the group representing the Big Media companies acted during bargaining with the WGA, including how the AMPTP and moguls pitted the directors guild against the writers guild. 
Only this time the AMPTP is manipulating actors versus actors. I'm told that today the representatives for the clique of Hollywood CEOs announced it was going to meet with AFTRA starting tomorrow and therefore was walking away from the table during negotiations with SAG -- even though the leadership of the big actors union made clear it wanted to continue talking. I'm told that SAG asked for a third extension of the talks, but the AMPTP refused, instead offering to resume talks only as late as May 28, only a month before SAG's contract expires the end of June. 
"They are doing what we all thought they would do, walking away from table," a SAG board member just told me this afternoon. "They said, 'We have to honor this obligation that was made to AFTRA.' So they've walked out on us without ever getting back to us after we have made major concessions to a number of things they came in asking for. What's worse is they have not come up with one counter-proposal to our proposals."
6:30 PM UPDATE: The AMPTP and SAG issued separate and, as expected, wildly conflicting, statements as to the cause of the breakdown of the talks. (See both statements below.) But SAG confirmed my reporting: that "the AMPTP suspended negotiations with SAG today over the objections of SAG's negotiating committee. The committee had urged that the AMPTP continue discussion and had offered to negotiate around the clock if necessary in order to secure an agreement." The AMPTP blamed SAG's "unreasonable demands" but did not provide even one example of a compromise or concession made by the media moguls side..
4:30 PM UPDATE: I'd heard throughout these negotiations that AMPTP president Nick Counter has been virtually daring SAG to strike. Now I've learned that he did actually dare SAG to strike. According to my sources, during the starting day of the AMPTP-SAG official negotiations, "The first thing that came out of Nick Counter's mouth was, 'These proposals are unreasonable. Well, I guess you'd better prepare for a strike.' "
I've also learned that the AMPTP is trying to push through a contract provision strenuously objected to by the SAG leadership that would give the media moguls free and unlimited use of short clips of actors' work in TV and movies. Specifically, the studios and networks want to do away with what they see as the tedious and expensive process wherevy they have to obtain consent and then pay for using a SAG member's clip. So the AMPTP is demanding to be able to use roughly a 5-minute clip of an actor appearing on TV, and a roughly 10-minute clip of an actor appearing on film, without having to ask for consent or to pay. "They also want to use it as much they want," a SAG insider tells me. "So actors leave themselves open to the absolute overexposure of their images which also can be associated with god-knows-what. And the studios and networks can make a special of the clips and never pay an actor extra. It's not only unacceptable, it's outrageous. There is not a member in this union who would agree to that. We don't work for free."
Another demand made by the AMPTP concerns so-called "French hours": I'm told the moguls want to do away with an actor's break for lunch. "I don't know why it's called French hours since the French spend two hours for lunch," a SAG source explains to me., "If the AMPTP has its way, then actors would be working while holding a plate of food."
I've learned that SAG President Alan Rosenberg, and chief negotiator/national executive director Doug Allen, sat in today's meeting feeling a breakthrough in the negotiations was as far away as it's ever been. "These three weeks have just been a colossal waste of the union's time. Doug and Alan are really disappointed in these people who make up the AMPTP because they're not willing to make a deal and they're so completely predictable. And there's not even one person in that room for them authorized to agree to anything." (For background, see my previous: Media Moguls Nix SAG Demands and First News About SAG-AMPTP Talks.)
That's certainly true: the only way that the DGA and WGA obtained deals was by negotiating directly via backchannels with moguls Peter Chernin and Bob Iger, and by cutting out the pro forma nonsense with Nick Counter, the studio and network labor lawyers, and everyone else at the AMPTP altogether.
During the writers strike, WGA board member Tom Schulman issued what he called The Playbook Of The AMPTP. I can attest to the fact that, based on what I've heard went on during these AMPTP-SAG negotiations, nothing has changed. It doesn't matter how much the big actors union leadrship hopes a deal will be done sooner rather than later. Because the AMPTP is slowing down the process when, if anything, it should be speeded up on account of the de facto strike that exists right now in greenlighting Hollywood movies.
A favorite negotiating tactic of Nick Counter's is to repeatedly offer nothing new until each guild is forced to negotiate against itself by continually reducing its demands. This is exactly what was done here. Already, just in three weeks' time, SAG has softened its proposals: for instance, it's agreed not to double residuals from DVD sales, instead asking for what would effectively be a 15% hike in DVD pay, as well as scaled back its 50% pay increase for guest stars on TV shows.
But, after much hemming and hawing in the form of so-called caucuses, the AMPTP failed to come back with a single response to any of these revised SAG positions. "They have not tried to negotiate at all," a SAG insider said about the AMPTP. "These extensions on the talks were merely a ploy to situate themselves so they could be able to say, 'We tried so hard with SAG'. When just the opposite is true. They did nothing. When we spoke to them about this, they insisted they'd 'not had time to review it'. So, obviously, their only job description is, 'Don't make a deal.'
"We walked in to make a deal. But they walked in to not make a deal."
One of the reasons that the SAG positions have not been made clearer is because the union leadership, rightly or wrongly, refused to go public while negotiating with the AMPTP. While the moguls side, as before with the WGA, used the mainstrean media and the trades as its mouthpieces. "Alan and Doug have remained mature and sober through this process by not trying to duke it out in press," a talks insider tells me.
Of course, the AMPTP is trying to pressure SAG to accept the DGA deal as is, just like it tried to pressure the WGA deal to do that, too. (The Screen Actors Guild has 120,000 members, while AFTRA represents about 70,000 people. The two unions share 44,000 dual members.) And, just as before, the AMPTP will try to use a fast pact with AFTRA (and it will be a lousy pact, trust me, because that union's always are) to induce SAG to accept less and not more.
For instance, I'm told that AFTRA has already agreed to the AMPTP's demands to remove consent for clip use in the Network Code Contract its leadership recently negotiated. "It was in the fine print so, when it went out to members for ratification, they probably didn't notice this," a source tells me.
Regarding New Media, SAG is seeking that the Hollywood CEOs mandate exclusive guild coverage for original low-budget, made-for-Internet-only shows. The moguls agreed in previous deals that union contracts were optional for writers or directors for productions that cost less than $15,000 a minute. Now the AMPTP is refusing to consider any change.
On New Media just like DVD residuals, which SAG leaders Rosenberg and Allen have pledged to both better, I'm told that the AMPTP keeps using that old saw of, "We really need three years to look at this." But SAG isn't falling for that line anymore. "Nobody on the planet believes it will be revisited. The AMPTP goes on and on about how we're 'partners'. And we say back, 'But there's nothing about what you've done over the last three years that suggests you want to be our partners."
Also the AMPTP keeps talking about how business practices are really changing and therefore challenging. SAG had a retort in the negotiations. "We said, 'Don't you think its confusing that you're telling the world you're making a lot of money, and you walk into this room and cry 'We're poor boys'. One of the times they made a comparison between what an actor made in 1997 compared to 2007. Are they now going to announce how much their corporations made in 1997 versus what they made in 2007? When they're clearly making incredible amounts of money especially in digital distribution." (See my news today, Disney Latest Big Media Behemoth To Profit During Recession & Writers Strike.)
Earlier in the day, Disney CEO Bob Iger said in a conference call with financial analysts that the moguls had made their position clear to SAG. "The fact that we did deals with the writers and the directors should certainly signal our position on the critical issues. I think SAG is well aware of that."
Causing further consternation is the fact that the AMPTP isn't honoring even the existing contract with SAG: the actors union has filed arbitrations for the millions of dollars in force majeure payments that remain unpaid and still due.
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Here is the Screen Actors Guild statement issued tonight:
Los Angeles, May 6, 2008 -- The AMPTP suspended negotiations with the Screen Actors Guild today over the objections of SAG's negotiating committee.The committee had urged that the AMPTP continue discussion and had offered to negotiate around the clock if necessary in order to secure an agreement.
The AMPTP declined to continue negotiations with SAG claiming that it was necessary to turn their attention to negotiating with American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA).
Screen Actors Guild National President Alan Rosenberg said, "It is unfortunate and deeply troubling that the AMPTP would suspend our negotiations at this critical juncture. We have modified our proposals over the last three weeks in effort to bargain a fair contract for our members. We are committed to preserving rights that have been in place for decades and not giving the studios the right to use excerpts of our work in new media without our consent and negotiation. Our negotiating team is prepared to work around the clock for as long as it takes to get a fair deal. We want to keep the town working."
Over the last four weeks Screen Actors Guild negotiated in good faith and modified many of its proposals to the AMPTP. To date, the AMPTP has offered only a few modifications to its new media proposal which was submitted to SAG in three documents containing 36 provisions that differed from the deals agreed to with the WGA and DGA.
SAG's National Executive Director and Chief Negotiator Doug Allen stated, "We were hopeful that we could continue negotiations with the AMPTP and reach a tentative agreement. We modified our proposals in effort to narrow the gap between us and now we need the AMPTP do the same. SAG's objective is to keep the town working and get a fair contract, so we are gravely disappointed that we will now have to delay to a process that we started over three weeks ago. We are willing to work for as long as it takes to negotiate a good agreement for our members."
The AMPTP put forward a proposal that differed substantially from the deals signed with the DGA and WGA. Management's clip demand would gut existing provisions regarding actors' consent to use of their clips and would allow studios and networks to use or sell clips - going forward and from their libraries - in any way they choose and without consent.
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Here is the AMPTP's official statement tonight:
May 6, 2008: On Friday, May 2nd, the AMPTP agreed to extend our talks with SAG on a day-to-day basis through today, as long as the parties were making progress. We therefore regret to report that insufficient progress has been made to extend negotiations for a third time. Indeed, the negotiations were thrust into reverse by SAG's persistent refusal to acknowledge that the three deals already struck with the writers, directors and AFTRA reflect the economic realities faced by everyone in our industry, including actors.
In particular, significant differences remain on DVD residuals, streaming, made for new media, and new media use of clips and library material. Under these circumstances, with SAG's continued adherence to unreasonable demands in both new and traditional media, continuing negotiations at this time does not make sense.
We will begin scheduled negotiations with AFTRA on Wednesday, May 7th and have offered to resume negotiations with SAG at a future date.
Over the course of 18 days of negotiations, both parties made compromises and concessions. Unfortunately, SAG's negotiators continued to insist on some of the Guild's most unreasonable demands in both traditional and new media areas. As a result, it was not possible to reach the same kind of agreement that the Producers have already reached with the WGA, the DGA and the AFTRA Network Code.
Even though this round of negotiations has ended without an agreement, we hope that these three weeks of work have helped lay the groundwork for an agreement that can eventually be reached prior to the June 30, 2008 expiration of the current SAG-AMPTP contract.
Of course, in the aftermath of such an intense negotiating period, statements of disappointment are to be expected. As you consider these statements, it is worth keeping in mind the following key points:
· Our industry was not starting from scratch with this round of SAG negotiations. On the contrary, over the last three months three separate labor agreements have been reached with our industry's writers and directors, and in the AFTRA Network Code negotiations. During these negotiations, AMPTP made many compromises from our initial demands to reach these three new labor agreements.
· SAG actively participated in the WGA strike, witnessing first hand the difficulties all parties had in reaching a deal on complex new media issues. In addition to observing the WGA talks, SAG also had observers in the AFTRA Network Code negotiations.
· Despite the existence of these recent three agreements, and despite SAG's direct experience with the WGA strike and the AFTRA Network Code negotiations, SAG negotiators came to this newest round of negotiations with more than 36 major new proposals - and more than a few of those were deal-breakers.
· The AMPTP negotiators took the opposite approach, introducing a modest package of just eight narrowly-tailored proposals.
· From the very start of these negotiations, then, SAG refused to respect the sound basis for the writer, director and AFTRA Network Code labor agreements, while the AMPTP consistently urged SAG to recognize and build upon the framework of those agreements.
· In the end, this round of SAG negotiations ended without an agreement because SAG simply refused to recognize the fundamental business and labor principles that have already been accepted by directors, writers and producers.
If this happens, SAG must withdraw its concessions. We must not allow the AMPTP to weaken our position by abstaining from negotiating. If the other side walks away from our contract negotiations, then EVERYTHING is subject to being put back on the table.
Comment by Jerry Jackson — May 6, 2008 @ 4:53 pm
How soon do we have to wait for Variety to start reporting that SAG walked out?
AMPTP is doing the same exact playbook, let’s see if Variety does too.
Comment by George Glass — May 6, 2008 @ 5:01 pm
I know that there will be lots of angry posts with this news. I know there will be lots of verbiage about striking, etc. etc.
Please note, however, that on this same day, the big media showed profits, even during the last strike. So decide carefully, SAG, what you’ve got to fight with. A strike? Big Media has planned for it for years, and would not be that affected by it all that much. Hell, even the vast majority of SAG wouldn’t be affected by a strike, since 95% of the membership have jobs other than acting. Once again, (and I’m old enough to remember the 1980 SAG strike, all those months of it), the only people that will be destroyed by a strike will be the below-the-line folks. But what scares me about a SAG strike coming after the WGA strike, is that there are a whole lot of desperate people out there. And, based on what I’ve heard said on various crews, some are not far away from doing desperate things. I hope, truly hope, that SAG doesn’t strike, because I think bad things will happen this time.
Comment by Julius Fort — May 6, 2008 @ 5:16 pm
“…So they’ve walked out on us without ever getting back to us after we have made major concessions to a number of things they came in asking for. What’s worse is they have not come up with one counter-proposal to our proposals.”
That sentence could have come out of John Bowman’s mouth in December 2007.
It’s really a shame AFTRA has decided to play the DGA role in the production of Crush Labor II: This Time It’s Just Plain Fun.
We’re all going to be paying for this round of contracts for the next 20 years.
Comment by Ashley Gable — May 6, 2008 @ 5:20 pm
French hours do not meal walking meals, they do not mean actors who are eating may be called back in the middle of a bite.
French hours are no set lunch break, a hot meal/caterer is available during the entire shoot day, which must NOT run past a certain number of hour.
If actor “a” on french hours takes his meal from 3-4 at 3:15 the director may not decide to bring actor “a” back, he must respect the meal time.
Go look it up, however if SAG is french hours then, I believe, all must be french hours.
As it stands now all crew must agree to do this rather than a set meal w/penalties if invaded. I don’t know the SAG rule.
Comment by enough — May 6, 2008 @ 5:26 pm
CALM DOWN folks! Nikki–don’t rattle the cage quite yet.
Remember, SAG was part of the WGA negotiating process every step of the way– they were in the room with them, in fact, almost every day.
Here’s an interesting question though: the WGA struck for 3 months and ultimately was happy with the deal they got…. Why does SAG have the expectation they can do better??
Sounds like progress was made during the past few days. Frankly, the actors I speak to daily don’t want a strike. Let’s just all be calm and get back to the table once this AFTRA nonsense is done.
Hopefully, cool heads will prevail
Comment by saveHollywood07 — May 6, 2008 @ 5:32 pm
Funny how pro-AMPTP commenters that haven’t appeared on this site since the last strike are suddenly “resurfacing” again.
Guess the AMPTP troll machine is revving up again.
Lovin’ the return of the same script, i.e. ominous threats of crews doing “bad, desperate things” to strikers
Comment by ha ha, welcome back AMPTP trolls — May 6, 2008 @ 5:37 pm
Now that the AMPTP have walked away will Hanks, Clooney, Streep and DeNiro take out a full page ad urging the AMPTP to get back to the table? AFTRA could gain lots of respect by refusing to negotiate with the AMPTP until a SAG deal is done, but I fear they will just low-ball a contract that will hurt us all.
Comment by Frustrated SAG/AFTRA member — May 6, 2008 @ 5:49 pm
I’m shocked, shocked I say, to hear that this is the AMPTP tactic.
Comment by writer — May 6, 2008 @ 5:58 pm
SAG failed its members and the rest of the industry. Now they will plead for solidarity - not from this Teamster or anyone I’ve talked to lately. Thanks for nothing SAG.
Comment by Bill — May 6, 2008 @ 6:15 pm
Hope SAG members pressure their greedy, overpaid, self-important “A-list” colleagues to stand behind their union and remember the organization that got them where they are - hello, Tom Hanks, George Clooney [not really A-list anymore], etc - you hardly had meteoric rises, and slogged away under the protection of SAG for some time
Comment by business minded — May 6, 2008 @ 6:21 pm
Julius Fort hits it right on the head. All one has to do is remember what happened to Bruce Willis on the set of Peter Pan. It was ugly.
Responding to the post I believe the two point that she reports are non starters anyway. Actors can have their likeness copyrighted, that gets around no pay for usage. The studios understand copyright. Copyright your likeness.
French hours what a joke. What context is that in. French hours are disasters. I’ve worked shows with French hours and I can tell you it’s mostly unworkable. Tell me how a producer is going to tell the cast of Grey’s or Housewives that they eat on the run. This all smoke by the AMPTP.
Come June if there’s no agreement, AFTRA will get the lion share of prime-time scripted. Shows will start on cable and migrate to Networks. We already see it happening.
So in all your thoughts think about waht you are doing and is worth the cost.
Comment by just a thought — May 6, 2008 @ 6:22 pm
French Hours must be voted on by the entire crew in a secret ballot. The entire work day can be no longer than 10 hours when doing French Hours.
Comment by ian1stad — May 6, 2008 @ 6:22 pm
A lot of people wonder why Nick Counter is ‘negotiating’ the SAG deal when he was the one who caused the WGA strike, the strike ultimately brought to an end by direct talks between Iger, Chernin and the Guild. The playbook then and now is to make Counter the fall guy, the ‘bad cop’ who talent direct their frustrations towards, so that this anger is not directed at the moguls. The moguls pay Counter to take the heat since they don’t personally want to tick off a powerful writer-producer or an A-list actor. Moreover, the moguls can play the role of ‘good cop’ when they step in during a strike and then quickly end it. Counter, for all his arrogance and obstinance, is doing what he’s being paid well to do.
Comment by Tom — May 6, 2008 @ 6:22 pm
The AMPTP knows that its playbook is out there so they will likely try to keep the AFTRA at the table and do a deadline deal. If the AMPTP is trying to dare SAG to strike, there will not be any deals between now and June 29th.
You don’t do a deal by making it with one union quickly if you tend to destroy the other union in the process which is AMPTP’s goal vs SAG and AFTRA. What needs to happen in order to achieve this sick goal is to pit SAG vs AFTRA, let the trades report the “uncivil war,” and, in the end, divide and conquer where the working actor gets a small morsel, and the A-listers get screwed.
Comment by Jessy S. — May 6, 2008 @ 6:26 pm
Of course AFTRA will sign a low ball deal. They hope to gain jurisdiction, the AMPTP is using them as a wedge to weaken SAG, it’s all so predictable. And Julius Fort is issuing (barely) vagued threats of violence. Well, Julius, what’s the violence going to be? Are a bunch of Teamsters going to break into Fox and tear shit up because the AMPTP walked away from the talks? Are they going to break Nick Counter’s pale and fragile little kneecaps? Why exactly is SAG to blame for this? They have a right to negotiate, the AMPTP left in an arrogant, premeditated, scripted “huff,” because they wanted to “negotiate” with the “more reasonable” ankle grabbers at AFTRA. After the WGA affair, none of this is surprising, but it’s just an enraging. But Julius, in case “something does happen,” you should be more careful what you post. Your identity is not as secret as you think. Besides, there’s no need for threats. The AMPTP never intended on negotiating with SAG, just as I wrote a week ago. It’s all a funny charade and now AFTRA’s going to waltz in, agree to the same pathetic deal the WGA got and in 20 years we’re all going to bemoan the short-sighted and weak-kneed guilds of the early 21st century.
Comment by Venice — May 6, 2008 @ 6:43 pm
All this does is reinforce my belief at what a lousy deal the WGA got and makes we wish that we (those of that believed that we should’ve stayed out on strike) should have voiced louder our views. Maybe had we screamed louder and longer, the leadership might have awakened from the spell of those who whispered, “Take the deal, take the deal.” and realized just how wrong headed those dirty thirty (or hundred as the case may be) were to insist that our deal was the best we could get.
It was bad then and it any better now.
Comment by J.J. — May 6, 2008 @ 6:46 pm
While I was critical of WGA leadership during the last strike, (a strike in which like many others, I suffered), SAG has so far acted very professional and open-minded.
I know Many can’t afford another strike (or are still smarting from the last) — thus, it seems imperative, for the sake of all the innocents out there, that the AMPTP act like “men” and not play games, and negotiate in good faith, meeting the SAG half-way and not leave an enclosed, guarded room until a contract is settled as “quick as possible.”
obsessive bottom-lining is amoral when so many livelihoods are on the line… everyone just needs to be decent, especially in times of economic uncertainity
Comment by buzz — May 6, 2008 @ 6:47 pm
I have a theory about the AMPTP.
Most people like to compare moguls and their minions to sharks. I think that’s an inaccurate analogy.
I think they’re more like cats. An ill tempered Siamese I encountered as a kid to be exact.
They’re pampered, preened, and while thoroughly domesticated and isolated from struggle and hardship for generations they still think they’re the mighty predator ruling the wild.
They are loyal only to their own convenience and comfort, and care not a whit for feelings of anyone that isn’t feeding them at that second.
They are also lazy.
Incredibly lazy.
Where a certain Siamese cat enjoyed 23 hours of sleep, the average mogul takes the easy path of remakes, comic book adaptations, and sticking to the same tired “A-List” names even though their value as attractions are dwindling.
So when they think it is convenient for them to do nothing, they will do exactly that: nothing.
All they have to do is sit on their liposuctioned behinds and wait for starvation to set in, because actors don’t make the sort of profits the companies make on reruns, and don’t have large parent companies to carry them because they’re not tax shelters.
SAG made some terrible tactical errors letting things like the AFTRA split and qualified voting make them seem weak, disorganized, and disunited, when they should have been doing some long term preparations for what can only be described as a economic war.
As things stand now, AMPTP has no reason to be reasonable, when they can take the easy route and walk away.
I wish SAG luck, because this could cost them.
Comment by Furious D — May 6, 2008 @ 6:50 pm
Bob Zemeckis said something to be very prophetic about ten years ago. He said eventually the studios are going to try to get out of the movie business. They don’t make enough money, they don’t like the hassle, they just don’t care. The future is the internet and video games. Feature films are a dying dinosaur — at least at the studio level. I think Bob was right. The studios are becoming more and more irrelevant. Unless you’re dying to see the new Marvel Super Hero movie. Heck, I say read the comic book and let’s focus on quality independent filmmaking. Focus on the interim agreements and f*ck the studios. They don’t care anyway. Why should we?
Comment by Hickenlooper — May 6, 2008 @ 6:51 pm
No offense to SAG, but I am sorry if they think that the public will be swayed with them like they were the WGA.
Right now with the rising gas and food prices, American’s have more to worry about than a SAG strike. Most of the public see Actors over paid anyhow, so they won’t get the same sympathy as the WGA.
If AFTRA strikes a deal this will make SAG to look bad and money hungry. It’s better if SAG takes the deal now and works with it in the next couple of years.
Just think about how this will hurt Hollywood even more. Think about others in this situation…
Comment by TV Fan — May 6, 2008 @ 6:56 pm
It didn’t take long, did it? As I said, I have been listening to people talk, and I noted to this blog what I heard. I personally don’t have the stupidity to do anything “dangerous”. But I do work with opinionated, desperate people. I do fervently hope there isn’t another strike, that’s all.
Comment by Julius Fort — May 6, 2008 @ 7:14 pm
TV Fan–
Your comment is ridiculous. It is movie STARS who are “over paid” {sic}, not actors. The average actor makes less than $5000 a year.
It’s easy. When you don’t know something, look it up.
Comment by writer — May 6, 2008 @ 7:35 pm
RE: comments made by Hickenlooper: “I think Bob was right. The studios are becoming more and more irrelevant. Unless you’re dying to see the new Marvel Super Hero movie. Heck, I say read the comic book and let’s focus on quality independent filmmaking. Focus on the interim agreements and f*ck the studios. They don’t care anyway. Why should we?
Amen, Amen, Amen Brother, or Sister, whichever ye be. People don’t long for “GOOD” films anymore - because it has been so long since that was the norm - that they have forgotten what a good film was. The meaningless, dry, weak, senseless crap that the studios churn out these days - it’s like the TV Dinners my mother used to feed us EVERY night - after eating that bland food-form long enough, I forgot what really good food was like. Everything is cyclical though, EVERYTHING. The cycle has peaked for the studios and their old, wrinkly, weathered and worn practices, and bland, sleep inducing films. It is time for a resurgence of the real true art form, a return to meaningful storytelling….a new cycle is due - one for the indie world.
In every bleak situation is a world of opportunity. Let the industry die and be reborn, we’d all be better for it. Sure, there’d be some suffering, but anything worth having is worth suffering for. Death is uncomfortable in any sense, and if we are clinging onto what is now, at all costs, things might look pretty bleak. But death paves the way for new growth, and I for one would like to see a “wild fire” come through and sweep the current studio system to the ground, and be a part of the emergence of the new. I mean - am I the only one who is tired of these arrogant media monopolies and their bland, tired products?
Comment by NewCycleTime — May 6, 2008 @ 7:45 pm
Good Lord, here we go again…
Comment by Dave — May 6, 2008 @ 7:50 pm
This whole situation was entirely predictable. The studio guys listened to the SAG guys rhetoric during the WGA strike and believed that they wanted to strike. The basic SAG problem is supply and demand. You have 120,000 actors and what say 3000 active jobs available if that. All a strike will do is reduce the number of available jobs as the networks move to reality/gameshow formats with a celebrity host and general public participants. I don’t watch them but apparently a lot of people do and thats either more than the previous scripted show or at least 75% of the audience they were getting with the more expensive shows. I believe that last strike decimated the made for TV movies that were done in the US and moved them to Canada. I used to enjoy the movie of the week on ABC that made a lot of good TV movies but they don’t make them anymore. Same for NBC that had a lot of police based movies that were very well done. CBS is the only one left and they do what two Hallmark ones and maybe a couple of the Tom Selleck movies each year. Just look at the cable channels that produce numerous ones like Lifetime and Hallmark. They are all made in Canada now. If SAG strikes then I bet there will be a bigger northern migration and mayne even a southern one as well. If the studios can make movies in Australia then why not a couple of TV series.
Comment by Brian — May 6, 2008 @ 8:13 pm
Writer- My comment was not ridiculous, if you asked the average person on the street they wouldn’t know how much the average actor made, and would think they were over paid. Because all we see is the “movie stars” that’s who we associate with SAG. Not just your everyday actor. *does that make sense*
Comment by TV Fan — May 6, 2008 @ 8:19 pm
The Producers were the clear victors by the time the WGA Strike came to its end; why should they deviate from their playbook?
Comment by Anonymous — May 6, 2008 @ 8:19 pm
I feel like I just tripped, hit my head, and woke up 6 months ago. It’s all the same, except the acronyms involved are different.
The AMPTP said:
Kinda like the AMPTP consistently “urged” the WGA to take a crappy deal or else face the wrath of the rest of the industry while taking the older, crappier one?
I think the only “sound” involved here is the sound of a giant corporate vacuum slowly sucking (even as greedy iron fists are squeezing) whatever gasps of life are left in each of its so-called “partners”.
Comment by Captain Obvious — May 6, 2008 @ 9:05 pm
I’m a WGA member, ashamed by my guild’s characteristic weakness during our own strike, and I say to my SAG brothers and sisters: Stay strong, stay out, stay together! And remember, you have a real president, we had Verrone.
Comment by StickingWithMyUnion — May 6, 2008 @ 9:10 pm
TV Fan–
Yes, it makes sense, if by “sense” you mean insisting you are still right when you are faced with facts that indicate you are wrong.
If you can use your computer to post uninformed opinions, perhaps you could also use it to Google “average actor income.” Your very first hit will be a United States Department of Labor site. Then, assuming you can read, scroll down about 3/4 of the page, and you will find this paragraph:
>Some well-known actors—stars—earn well above the minimum; their salaries are many times the figures cited, creating the false impression that all actors are highly paid. For example, of the nearly 100,000 SAG members, only about 50 might be considered stars. The average income that SAG members earn from acting, less than $5,000 a year.
Comment by writer — May 6, 2008 @ 9:11 pm
>>Your comment is ridiculous. It is movie STARS who are “over paid” {sic}, not actors. The average actor makes less than $5000 a year.
You said it all right there - 120,000 union members, the majority of which make less than $5000 yearly.
Those numbers reflect a social club, not a labor union. SAG went off the rail years ago. Counter doesn’t even have to pick up the phone - BECAUSE THERE’S NO ONE ON THE OTHER END.
Comment by Ben — May 6, 2008 @ 9:22 pm
Yeah, it’d be nice if going to the movies was about more than the latest craptacular crap.
Comment by Anonymous — May 6, 2008 @ 9:27 pm
Gee, what would we do if the United States of America had a Justice Department that knew what the Sherman Anti-Trust Act was?
Comment by Santayana — May 6, 2008 @ 9:46 pm
“Bob Zemeckis said something to be very prophetic about ten years ago. He said eventually the studios are going to try to get out of the movie business. They don’t make enough money, they don’t like the hassle, they just don’t care.”
Sorry, but movies make billions of dollars and will continue to do so. Yes, the studios of yore did disappear - about twenty years before Zemeckis said they would disappear - I guess no one told him. (Zemeckis is the last guy I would quote about the movie business, but okay. He’s the guy letting the computers act for his films, right? Yes, that’s the future, Bob. Go for it!)
The real geniuses of Hollywood don’t live in LA but reside on Wall Street, the people who re-created and now control these endless global revenue streams of American entertainment - just like the securities packaged from your crappy adjustable rate mortgages. They invented the new engine and that’s where all the money flows. Save for a quick pit-stop to a few lucky stars in LA who are allowed a little peek at how it all works. But it’s just a peek. Just enough to sell tabloids.
The words ‘Hollywood Studios’ don’t describe traditional companies as much as they describe global revenue streams. Pointing away from this town, with a bullet.
Comment by Fredman — May 6, 2008 @ 9:53 pm
Looks like another strike. By that time, gas will be $4.50 per gallon. Bicycle anyone?
Comment by sam — May 6, 2008 @ 10:11 pm
I would like to encourage my union, SAG, to stick to its guns and continue to take the high road through this process.
I would like to encourage my fellow union members to not be dissuaded by anything the AMPTP throws at us - lies, trolls, or even AFTRA’s carcass. Let us not be distracted by “French Hours”; it’s a canard, just like residuals against the WGA. Let us not be disheartened or distracted by their using time and/or timing as a negotiating tactic.
The game-changer is New Media. Nothing SAG negotiates rooted in the world of Old Media will remain relevant if it doesn’t carry over to online distribution, web-based content, cellular, IPTV, satellite or broadband distribution of theatrical features and other content to theaters, so on. SAG has jurisdiction over New Media. That is established, and over the next few months should be strongly reinforced.
New Media makes this a once-in-a-generation negotiation for SAG. Given the fundamental changes represented by New Media, it is no exaggeration to say that the relevance of SAG as a union is on the line this year. The solidarity of the membership - from the biggest A-lister to the middle-class actor to the specialists and the background - is vital to the success of these negotiations. If we want to have a union we can turn to when we’re screwed on the set, or screwed on the Internet, or screwed on the check, then we have to show our solidarity through one of the most fundamental of union responsibilities - contract negotiations.
Nobody wants a strike. However, if, in the judgement of Mr. Rosenberg and Mr. Allen, a strike is required, we must stand ready to answer their call.
Comment by mheister — May 6, 2008 @ 10:31 pm
I believe that’s Minnie Driver in one of the photos holding a UNION sign.
Which I find quite ironic as about 10 years ago I was supposed to work on a movie that she and her sister were producing and her production company fought tooth and nail to prevent IATSE getting involved and the crew turning union. But I guess that’s different though, isn’t it?
Comment by simon — May 6, 2008 @ 10:35 pm
Buzz,
You have to be certifiable if you think “morality” is a word in the AMPTP lexicon. To appeal to their sense of right and wrong is just about the stupidest, most naive thing I’ve read on here, with all due respect. I feel that you don’t understand the species. It’s all about money, power, leverage, and ends justifying the means. It’s about the Art of War and manipulation. It’s about winning at all costs. It’s about taking every last cent you can and then grabbing a couple more when no ones looking. Or a few billion with some tricky accounting. Sorry to say we’re not dealing with people that care. Nick Counter’s world is not that touchy feely.
Julius,
Would you mind being more specific about what you’ve been hearing? You don’t have to name names of course, but just for the sake of everyone’s safety (that you seem so concerned with), maybe you could let us in on what’s being discussed.
Comment by Venice — May 6, 2008 @ 11:00 pm
Allens=losers.
Stick with the MeFirst nonsense, and this is what you get.
Let’s hope AFTRA nails down a contract worth working under, and then, see ya SAG!
Comment by T. Obvious — May 6, 2008 @ 11:23 pm
Okay did anyone see the HR quote by some Entertainment Attorney Jack off. Amazing.
Comment by summer — May 6, 2008 @ 11:27 pm
Hey, “writer”: nice to see you’re up to your same ol’ tricks, e.g. attacking anyone who would suggest that striking could (gasp!) do a lot of very real and substantive damage moreso than any theoretical gains to be made.
The AMPTP is a joke; you’ll get no argument from me on that front. But TV Fan’s point is very valid. The average American will feel no sympathy for SAG b/c the face of SAG currently is the A-List Multimilliionaire Club who grace the tabloid rags and websites. (Not to mention that if SAG DOES strike, who do you think will be the primary voices leading the charge/evening news coverage? It ain’t going to be “Jogger 2″ from Juno.)
Regardless of how right your numbers are, the general public will have little patience or sympathy w/ the current political and financial climate being so desolate.
So lay off TV Fan, cut the “any dissenting voice is a shill” act, and realize that strikes can do more damage than good in some situations. (And on the heels of a previous work stoppage? The damage is exponentially increased.)
The AMPTP is garbage for walking away. But SAG isn’t w/o fault; and as a paid member, it’s my right to say so.
Comment by Thomas Paine — May 6, 2008 @ 11:41 pm
Being forced into a summer strike, when networks will make easy ad revenue during the Olympics, NBA Playoffs and World Series, with the strike ending for fall premiere just delayed by a month. AND with their 2009 film slate already in the can.
Shame how it all works out in their favor. Sigh
Comment by 40yearoldstitzer — May 7, 2008 @ 1:55 am
Hey Writer -
Once again, your posts prove narrow minded and short-sighted.
What TVFan was saying is, he (being a FAN of TV, and relating more to the general public than anyone even remotely connected to our field) does not think of the baristas and waitstaffs working double-shifts whilst hoping to land their next audition. He thinks about the Clooneys and the Pitts and the Damons.
Lemme put it like this, since you obviously lack perception in thinking outside of your little brain: When you heard ‘Oh, boo hoo, some poor struggling artistic writers are striking,’ did you give a good goddamn about the tens of thousands of genuine blue-collar below-the-liners that were being put out of work? No, you didn’t, and neither did middle America, because everybody loves a little romance. Struggling nebbish writers taking on the man? That’s feasible. The actors, though? Not so much.
And for all of those posting ‘Welcome back to the shills!’ and ‘Watch out for the trolls!,’ it’s sweet you’re thinking of us, but we’ve been here all along. We’ve just been busy trying to work instead of basking in self-importance and assuring ourselves that our next strike :::will::: work, unlike those before us.
Unfortunately though, we don’t exactly have horns and tails. Believe it or not, I’m not against the little guy, I’m just saying, after the WGA strike, I’m thinking News Corp stock is looking very nice right now. Make it a long painful SAG Strike, and maybe I’ll be able to regain all the lost BTL wages I’ve lost in stock growth.
Comment by Slow down, think it through, learn from the past. — May 7, 2008 @ 2:01 am
Julius Fort said, And, based on what I’ve heard said on various crews, some are not far away from doing desperate things. I hope, truly hope, that SAG doesn’t strike, because I think bad things will happen this time.
Julius, since you seemingly know the thugs on “various crews” who are “not far away from doing desperate things,” when the time comes for those “bad things” you speak of to happen, tell them to come see me, because if the need arises, I am POSITIVELY voting to strike. I WILL NOT let my well being be held hostage by others.
Your “various crews” can hold me accountable all they want, and if physical retribution is their goal, well, let them try. There’s a reason I get all those Big Scary Villain roles.
Hey, here’s an idea: if your people are looking to rough somebody up, what about the AMPTP? They’re the ones who have opted, six weeks before our contract expires, not to negotiate.
Comment by Jerry Jackson — May 7, 2008 @ 3:04 am
He’s probably right, but like a lot of problems in the business world most of the problems are their own damn fault.
The whole “screw everybody” business model has created what I call a “self-fulfilling idiocy.”
Their constant attempts to squeeze every last nickel out of the industry and keep it only for themselves are the reason why:
-Production costs have Zimbabwe style inflation when technology means that it should be getting cheaper.
-Investors are for the most part wary of getting involved.
-Their accounting system makes sure that the only folks getting really rich are the movie stars with the most powerful agents and the litigators.
If any company wants to save the film industry, they have to:
-Give the audience what it wants. Entertaining stories that are well told that are neither insulting, condescending, or annoying.
-Take advantage of new technology to lower costs.
-Stop screwing everybody, so you don’t have to pay $20 million up front to every yahoo whose been on the cover of People Magazine, so investors wouldn’t be afraid to get involved, and to stop wasting millions on litigation every year.
Then maybe the industry can get its head out of its collective butt and get back to making money by entertaining people.
Comment by Furious D — May 7, 2008 @ 4:42 am
“These proposals are unreasonable. Well, I guess you’d better prepare for a strike.’ “
I’m sorry, is that “daring”? I think it’s sardonic at best. But daring? That’s a bit of stretch. According to this report, it sounds as though Counter said, “I DARE you to strike! Double dare you!!!”
Comment by dare to . . . — May 7, 2008 @ 7:04 am
Gee, why is our blockbuster, huge victory deal not good enough for SAG?
Oh, wait, it’s a shit deal and our leadership spun us to hold onto power after caving.
Comment by WGA #1 FAN! — May 7, 2008 @ 7:58 am
Again I don’t see any arrogance. Actors don’t have a RIGHT to act in films or television. If they cannot deal with the deal on the table, go get me my french fries before they get cold.
Comment by Badda Bing — May 7, 2008 @ 8:45 am
* Looks at story on GTA IV making 500 million…
* wonders why there are no residuals on video game VO work…
* wonders why SAG didn’t focus on the gaming market more, since they sell more than fuckin’ DVD’s anyway..
* wonders why Julius Fort keeps posting ominous messages about people doing desperate things..he couldn’t be shilling for anyone, could he? Nah..
Comment by VOguy — May 7, 2008 @ 8:58 am
“Writer” is correct
“TV Fan” is a studio plant - it’s the same comments verbatim planted by AMPTP during the last strike. Even the name “tv fan” and various iterations is the same.
Can’t AMPTP even bother to change their script?
No one’s buying what the trolls are selling.
Comment by FAN — May 7, 2008 @ 9:03 am
Here we go again. As a below the line member on a top ten show I’m worried to death about the impact of yet another pointless strike. I will not pretend to understand or even care about either side in this issue.
This is just yet another reason why I’m sorry I ever got into this industry in the first place. These people (both sides) are fighting over money when they make so much to begin with it’s insane. Meanwhile, the crews and related below the liners are pulling in next to nothing and we’re expected to understand, “it’s just the way the industry works…”
I have many many friends who are still P.A’s. This industry should be thankful that they don’t have the ability to strike. 60 + hour work weeks at $9 an hour. THAT”S something to strike over.
Comment by Below the line and angry — May 7, 2008 @ 9:40 am
I don’t speak for three hundred million Americans. Hell, I can’t even speak TO us; but if I could, I’d ask us to stop condoning the antics of the AMPTP.
Stop sending money to the studios, networks and the conglomerates that own them, because doing business-as-usual is dead.
We can set a transnational precedent for labor negotiations with a pre-emptive, pre-strike boycott that speaks to capital in language it understands.
Or we can grab our ankles and hope for the best — again.
Comment by Scott Ellington — May 7, 2008 @ 9:59 am
A strike will do nothing but throw stones at straw men and cripple more artists. Our problem reflects the state of our country.
L.A. Times article by producer Marshall Herskovitz last November:
“This is…about something much larger: How a confluence of government policy and corporate strategy is literally poisoning the TV business.
It started in 1995 when the Federal Communications Commission abolished its long-standing “finsyn” rules (that’s financial interest and syndication, for those unfamiliar with the term), allowing networks for the first time to own the programs they broadcast. Before that, under classic antitrust definitions, the networks had been confined to the role of broadcaster, paying a license fee to production companies for the right to broadcast programs just two times. The production companies owned all subsequent rights. In the mid-1990s there were 40 independent production companies making television shows. If a particular network didn’t like a show — as famously happened with “The Cosby Show” many years ago — the production company could take it to another network…
…Today there are zero independent production companies making scripted television. They were all forced out of business by the networks’ insistence — following the FCC’s fin-syn ruling — on owning part or all of every program they broadcast…
…during a time when network profits have been increasing — salaries and profit participation for the writer-producers who create the shows have been slashed. Fees were cut by one-third to one-half, and profit participation in many cases was effectively eliminated…
…Your TV may receive 200 channels, but virtually every one of them is owned by one of six big companies — NBC Universal, Disney, Time Warner, Viacom/Paramount, Sony and News Corp. And each channel has a brand identity dictated by those companies to which each program must adhere. Producers are now employees, not creators…
…Besides any esoteric discussion of the value of storytelling in a culture — which I believe is immense — this trend is part of a larger problem caused by the FCC in all areas of media. The relaxation of the Fairness Doctrine (which required the networks to present the news in a balanced way), the lapse of any oversight of networks’ civic responsibility, the commoditization of network news — these are all parts of a troubling move toward the aggregation of control of information in an ever-shrinking number of entities.
Our founding fathers could not have foreseen that freedom of the press might eventually be threatened just as much by media consolidation as by government. And if you doubt that’s happening, just watch Bill Moyers’ recent expose on the networks’ passive collusion with government in selling the Iraq war.”
Comment by Keven (with an 'e') — May 7, 2008 @ 10:01 am
Right, Keven, if Bill Moyers said it, it must be true. No bias there, now is there?
Let’s see: all the execs and big shots of your six mogul congloms send massive amounts of cash to Hillary and Barry O; even Rupert Murdoch hosts fundraisers for Hitlery; and, the 1995 FCC was part of the Clinton administration. So, let’s turn over even more control of communication to the party of government.
Brilliant idea. Keep hope alive, screw the little guy, and vote Democrat.
Comment by Walt (with an 'l') — May 7, 2008 @ 12:16 pm
Assuming that the SAG-negotiations/strike-possibility bashers are not SHILLS and are actually actors, (which I doubt, but that’s not the point), are you willing to work under whatever the studios are willing to give you? Even if it is $5 an hour? You can scream and yell at people till you are blue in the face, but I don’t hear you saying how much you want to work under the terms that the AMPTP have laid out. You can scream at SAG to make a deal and not to strike, but if you do so, you must be willing to work under what the AMPTP has laid out and they aren’t gonna give you anything they don’t have to.
As for the BTL who says he/she has no sympathy because PA’s make $9 an hour… I’ve made even less an hour in this business. I’ve worked without health insurance and without any kind of benefits… and have driven my savings (from corporate jobs) to depletion trying to stay afloat in jobs that elsewhere in the country would not be allowed to be so exploited. But the way to a fairer deal for those who have no power to strike is not by stamping on those who can take on the studios, because that only makes them stronger to exploit all of us. If you don’t want a strike which can devastate all of us, then you must organize and attack the studios where it can hurt, in corporate profits… that means the congloms which own them.
We’ve seen how difficult the struggle is with the WGA strike and I think part of the reason they gave in when they did was because they saw how badly we all were hurting. But did their giving in help us? No!!! The studios have only come back with the minimum work because they intend to starve us all into submission, if not servitude. If the last strike showed anything, it should show you that the only way is to show that we have the power to starve them out… and that means those big corporations behind them.
You want public support, you have to show that it is their fight too. And that isn’t that hard to do… because the same corporations who are supporting the studios to have their boots on labor here are treading with boots on the necks of the rest of America as well.
I used to bitch at people like Lou Dobbs because he didn’t talk about our runaway production, until I realized that runaway jobs have happened in all sections of the workplace. That’s how you have to approach it to get anything done.
And for those AFTRA supporters who have been bitching at SAG’s stance, I’m wondering how you feel about the clip giveaway in the Network Code contract and if you are willing to give it away in the upcoming negotiations. In fact, I wonder if you care what you make at all.
Comment by between the lines — May 7, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
“Comment by Scott Ellington — May 7, 2008 @ 9:59 am
Stop sending money to the studios, networks and the conglomerates that own them, because doing business-as-usual is dead.
We can set a transnational precedent for labor negotiations with a pre-emptive, pre-strike boycott that speaks to capital in language it understands.”
Boy, you’re really buying the socialist crap your professors are feeding you, huh?
As to those of you crying for the “artists” to create thier own material and release it themselves…YES! More power to you.
The irony is if that were to happen, you can say goodbye to your precious unions. Ever tried to raise your own money for a movie? The first thing you look at is non-union crew, the next is getting a SAG actor on a WAIVER.
If there is a strike, trust me, it will do nothing more than push thousands of people into bankruptcy. It won’t hurt the “evil corporations” one bit.
Comment by Joe Cool — May 7, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
Paranoia rules the day and all those that speak out against the current SAG leadership and Membership First are labled ‘trolls’ or shills for the AMPTP. It’s small-minded and delusional to think the producers would waste the time and expense to ‘infiltrate’ these blogs. The MF’ers house of cards will collapse on its own accord with no help from anyone else.
Casting blame on the producers ‘bag of tricks’, game plan and evil ways is to turn a blind eye on the over-the-top proposals SAG took to the table. The AMPTP pulled the rug out from underneath SAG and walked away!? Better they should have continued to beat their heads against a wall? When the Allen’s stood before the MF’ing Mob, pointed to a list of negotiating proposals made out of whole cloth and asked “Wouldn’t this be great to get!?” we’re to believe it’s the AMPTP that’s being unrealistic?
The MF’ers 2000 excursion into contract negotiations caused ongoing harm to those who work in commercials.
Sadly, the MF’ers still ignore certain realities. After 15 months of non-stop attacks–spurred on by the MF’ers, AFTRA did the correct thing in walking away from SAG. Yet, in the ever-changing story spun by the MF’ers, it was AFTRA displaying a lack of unity. Go figure.
Those of us working below-the-line cringe when we hear what the SAG leadership is up to. The MF’ers display a selfish disregard for others trying to make a living in the industry. They spew McCarthy-like diatribes at anyone who criticizes their platform. They show an insane willingness to burn down the house, but to what end? Is it to bolster an egocentric view with them as the only labor leaders who ‘get it’?
Middle tier actors aren’t working as much? Say hello to runaway production and reality TV. The latter of which came out of SAG’s last boondoggle. Trying to get those actors more money for the fewer jobs out there won’t plug the hole.
SAG, under the leadership of the MF’ers, has little to no support from the other unions in our business. They might stand tall and point to the WGA, but that Guild’s leadership is just as reckless as the MF’ers. When one brags of a negotiating style of waiting “for the other guy to blink,” one had better be damn sure they’re in the right.
Neither SAG, nor the WGA before them, went into negotiations having done any homework or proper prep. We also know, courtesy of WGA President Verrone, that brinkmanship may have worked in the Cuban missle crisis but it didn’t fly in Encino.
The DGA, which is much maligned by the MF’ers and their kindred spirits in the WGA, prepared for over a year-and-a-half and hammered out a solid deal in less than a week. There is a lesson here, but it seems the angry–and more vocal, folk out there have blinders on.
Membership First spins the tale told by an idiot. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
- Lee
Comment by Lee — May 7, 2008 @ 12:53 pm
Once again, AMPTP is putting thousands of people out of work for no reason, and during an economic downturn
Once again, AMPTP is costing Los Angeles millions in losses during a budget crisis
BTL people, light your torches and descend upon the gates of the studios to protest what AMPTP is doing to you yet again.
Comment by AMPTP robber barons — May 7, 2008 @ 1:52 pm
Back to all the name-calling. Dissenting opinions are allowed when no strike is looming or in full force, but once someone mentions strike, anyone that doesn’t agree with the militant posters is a shill. And it’s mostly the same posters calling names again. What a bunch of babies.
Have you noticed, let’s say there are shills, that NOBODY ever changes their opinions by reading a post by a so-called shill. It just becomes a name-calling contest.
You know what, everyone isn’t going to agree. Some people are going to want to strike and others aren’t. And you can’t blame the BTLs for getting upset, either, so let them vent.
Argue/debate like adults or just ignore the posts you don’t agree with, but stop the ridiculous paranoia. Because even if it were true that shills were posting it will have no effect whatsoever on what you personally believe or anybody’s decision to strike or not strike.
Grow up.
Comment by change your diaper — May 7, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
time for the a listers to pull out of promotional work for the big summer pics and back up their union
sadly there is no chance of that happening
Comment by dave c — May 7, 2008 @ 2:23 pm
The WGA deal was a compromise. The WGA was able to get some gains, but not everything they wanted.
I don’t get why the studios think that the actors somehow have an obligation to just take the exact same deal? The WGA made progress. And the actors have every right to take the WGA deal as a good starting point and try to get even more.
This is exactly what everyone expected all along, part of taking the WGA deal was the knowledge that it left the door open for the actors to make more improvements that the writers would end up getting as well.
If anyone thought the AMPTP was the good guys first time around, they’ve removed any doubt. Funny that while the writers were making demands and striking, they were being selfish…yet now that the actors are negotiating, the writers are faulted for not being selfish enough.
I guess the writers might as well have stayed on strike since it looks like work will just end up shutting down a few short months later.
Comment by milo — May 7, 2008 @ 2:38 pm
Seriously though, no one ever answers this: why is it wrong for the AMPTP to fight for it’s demands? They have every right that SAG and AFTRA do to try to get as much as they can.
To that end,losing pay for clip use sounds ridiculous. The rate should be cut because it’s pretty outlandish for something that requires no additional work and it requires someone to pay to use something they already paid for once. So…
The lunch thing, again, anyone who’s ever worked on a set knows that there are large swaths of time actors aren’t actually working so cutting back how much lunch time they pay for isn’t all that nuts. When I used to work as a gaffer I would routinely have lunch between breaks and use the hour or half hour to sleep in the truck and the electric/grip department works more than anyother department on set. If we had time for that, actors certainly do.
I will also state once again, as soon as actors, producers moguls are ready to start paying their assistants living wages (the ‘industry standard’ $10/hour doesn’t quite qualify) then they can start crying poverty for getting only $3500 on a clip use fee for something they were already paid $6500/day on rather than $5500.
Comment by manny — May 7, 2008 @ 4:04 pm
“‘Writer’ is correct…’TV Fan’ is a studio plant - it’s the same comments verbatim planted by AMPTP during the last strike. Even the name ‘tv fan’ and various iterations is the same…Can’t AMPTP even bother to change their script? No one’s buying what the trolls are selling.”
Really? We’re starting with the “plant” and “troll” crap again? Seriously? Ugh. OK. You know, the jackasses who continue to make these ridiculously paranoid and delusional comments just come across as…well, nuts. Do they REALLY think that studios, networks, etc. are so worried about the various posts and posters here that they would PLANT people to make comments?? That is probably one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard. These posts don’t matter to them and this site doesn’t matter to them. The Nets/Studios are most certainly aren’t going to expend the energy to HIRE people to troll boards or PLANT execs to make pro-AMPTP posts. I wouldn’t even take the time to remark upon this lunacy if it weren’t for the fact that I am so very tired of hearing these people firing “troll/shill” claims against ANYONE who does not agree with their vitriol.
Hey, newsflash: NOT EVERYONE SHARES THE SAME OPINION.
I would think that talent (writers/actors/producers, etc) would be all about creativity and freedom of expression. Instead, on this site, all too often I’ll see a silly bunch of people who behave like lemmings. Lemmings with an extra-special dash of “mob mentality,” who will pick fights and throw accusations at anyone who doesn’t drink the kool-aid and agree with their beliefs wholeheartedly.
Enough, already. It’s become so damn annoying. And just ends up disrupting the flow of those providing genuinely interesting discourse and thoughtful posts.
Comment by Tired, tired, tired... — May 7, 2008 @ 4:25 pm
fin-syn was going the way of the dinosaurs simply due to technology - cable. Murdoch and Fox just helped push it over the edge. But yes, it was a pivotal moment.
It’s a very difficult call to sya which is better. Cable has provided so many television jobs since then.
And here we are, twenty years later…
Comment by Bob F — May 7, 2008 @ 5:04 pm
Since I work for the studios “Where is my Paycheck?” *giggles* That made me laugh…
Granted while I see the studios are doing their play book again, many American’s won’t care about another strike. The ratings in TV are already suffering from the Writers Strike (which was necessary) if you go on strike and prolong the start of the Fall TV, the people won’t come back. They will feel cheated and jerked around, by both the studios and the unions.
I see both sides of the coin here, but just pick your fight carefully. The general public won’t be as sympathetic.
But then again you think I work for the studios. That’s funny!
Comment by TV — May 7, 2008 @ 6:26 pm
Technology always changes markets drastically. I think what is playing out here is the corporations fear of what happened to the music business so dramatically, and that is fresh in their heads. No one predicted it would swing that far and that deep. Kids don’t pay for music anymore. Period. It is a very difficult thing for older generations to understand or recognize. The same type of thing is already happening to other media to some degree. Media creation and distribution is currently in a huge revolution, with Itunes being a big, big part of what the new world will look like and how it will be financed.
So the only question left is - how much will YOU pay for it?
I bet you a trillion dollars it isn’t $15.99 for a DVD.
Comment by cableguy — May 7, 2008 @ 6:40 pm
OK SAG members, face facts, you lost, you lost before you even started. You are third or fourth in line behind the DGA and the WGA and AFTRA and the AMPTP has your number. Salvage what you can and make a deal without inflicting any more damage on those of us who work below the line. There is no sympathy left for you on the street and we can’t afford to indulge your fantasy of a perfect or even a fair contract. Cut your losses, and cut a deal. Pray the bastards show you mercy. You can only cause more damage to those of us who have nothing left to give. Another strike will cripple all of us.
Comment by lost my sense of humor — May 7, 2008 @ 10:02 pm
Perhaps there are no shills or trolls here since names aren’t trackable at all. But for the person who thinks that the studios don’t care enough about the boards to troll them… I submit the TVGuide.com board where there was a battle waged for the support of fans. There you can make up any name you want, but your date of entering is noted in your profile and so is access to every post you make.
Imagine then those who mocked anyone who supported the WGA strike and who mouthed every line the AMPTP put out (like how the AVERAGE WORKING writer made six figure salaries a year) and who ‘cried’ tears for the poor below the line people thrown out of work (course when I gave them links to where they could send donations, they weren’t interested) and oh, by the way, claimed they were not shills or trolls.
Interestingly, they joined after the start of the strike, didn’t make a single post that wasn’t negative about the WGA and its supporters on the board on any other topic, and THEY HAVEN’T MADE A SINGLE POST SINCE ON ANY TOPIC. And you don’t think they weren’t hired specifically to disrupt?
The studios hired the two PR firms that mudsling political campaigns for $100,000/month each — they obviously were working somewhere to earn that money… and not in established media since that was already in the studios pockets.
Sure, there was real dissenters present on those boards, too, but if you looked at their profiles, they had been on the boards long before the strike started, posted on other topics as well, and guess what, are still posting. Nobody would call them shills or trolls because it was obvious that they just shared a difference of opinion.
I’m sure there are people here with dissenting and divergent opinions, but if you think that there aren’t people here who have been hired to disrupt or who have motives to disrupt as shills and trolls, then you are either naive or one of them trying to pretend you are not.
Comment by between the lines — May 7, 2008 @ 11:50 pm
between the lines,
As I understand it, Nikki Finke did not open her board for posts until the WGA went on strike. So there was no “long before” to speak of. I agree that there are many people who posted vehemently during the strike and disappeared right after it ended. And I also agree that there were likely some people that could have been paid by the PR firm retained by the AMPTP. But there were also more than a few people pretending to be WGA members and supporters that tried to fan the flames from the other side. I encountered at least one individual here on this site that would easily fall into that category, and he’s been suspiciously silent ever since the WGA went back to work. (He wasn’t a member of the WGA but may have tried to join the IWC, which does not entail WGA membership. Either way, he attempted to present himself as a WGA/DGA member, and when confronted, he couldn’t answer simple questions and then ran for cover.)
I’ll readily state that I don’t post here often. When I’m working, I simply don’t have time. But if I see an obvious falsehood posted, I do feel a duty to correct the record before someone draws the wrong conclusion. And there have been a lot of people trying to write and rewrite the recent history to suit their own ends.
You are correct that “there are people here with dissenting and divergent opinions” but most times they have been shouted down by angry voices that cannot tolerate that dissent without name-calling or personal attacks. (My favorite variation is where the attacker demands that the dissenter reveal their personal information, as though below the line crew couldn’t pay dearly for such a revelation. And if you think that BTL crew who voice loud opinions can’t be fired and blackballed as “difficult”, then you honestly haven’t spent much time working in this business.)
Comment by Kevin — May 8, 2008 @ 12:47 am
A couple of years before the WGA went on strike both East and West voted in new leadership. While many on here have issues with the new leadership (I don’t), one of the things that these new leaders did was to work together to put to rest the a lot of the animosity between East and West. They knew this was very important because they needed to be united if there were ever a strike.
Obviously the issues are different, but it is unfortunate that AFTRA and SAG are turned against each other the way the two WGAs used to be instead of working together against their real enemy.
I also think it is pathetic that the AMPTP is pulling the same garbage that they did with the writers. In a negotiation, it’s smart to let both sides walk away from the table feeling like they did okay. Shame on the AMPTP for being so ruthless.
Comment by Kitty Carryall — May 8, 2008 @ 8:16 am
Kevin,
I understand the frustration of people dealing with ‘anonymous’ because it is impossible to tell whether the dissent is real or manufactured by shills. But as you can see I’m not using my real name either so like you, I understand very well how any one of us could be punished or harassed. So you don’t see me demanding anyone give his/her resume, even though sometimes when I read the answers, I’d like to scream to the writer, are you really who you say you are, because I doubt it?
I mention the TVGuide.com situation because of those people here who have protested that there are no shills. Not everyone uses their real name on that site either — but they do have to select a name and their account creation date is noted. Yes, I understand that I do a lot of surfing too without making comments and it takes an important issue to get me started. Heck, I didn’t know about Nikki’s column until her info about the strike got posted in places I frequented. So yes, a person who entered only in the strike and left later could just be a person who was only motivated during the strike by its importance. But I’d bet my non-existent paycheck (since the strike) that that is the exception of those who disappeared with the strike ending. I fully expect to see them back if SAG does go on strike.
That $100,000 per month per top-notch PR mudslingers went somewhere. It didn’t need to go to places like Variety and the LA Times who were already licking the boots of the studios. And that’s not even talking about the inhouse studio PR firms who have been aware of the power of internet access to the public by using the ‘wannabe internet reporter’ fans who have been disseminating press releases for them and building up audiences for them and have shown them the power of talking to the people.
I don’t know who is right or wrong here, but I do know one thing: telling SAG to make the best deal it can and go back to work is ridiculous… the only deal that’s on offer is what the AMPTP has been saying from day 1. So you may as well say what you really are saying: I don’t care how bad the deal is, take it anyway because I care only about me.
If it’s an actor dissenting SAG’s negotiations here, then he/she should own up what they are really saying, I think that the AMPTP deal is great as it is and that’s how I vote. And if it’s BTL crew taking SAG to task, then think about what kind of deal you think the studios are going to offer you and what you want outside people to be telling you when you are fighting them for a fair deal.
Comment by between the lines — May 8, 2008 @ 4:32 pm
between the lines,
After re-reading your earlier post, I realized you were discussing the TV Guide forum and other blogs, and not just this one. You and I agree about the people who likely only posted during the strike due to impact it was having on them (namely, being unemployed), and that likely there were a few people that posted as part of a PR strategy.
We disagree about the nature of Variety and the LA Times. I don’t necessarily think they were “licking the boots of the studios”. The LA Times accurately reported that soap opera writers were going fi-core, only to have that pooh-poohed at the time. All of a sudden, after the strike, the fi-core list gets published, and what do you know? There really were soap opera writers who went fi-core. So the Times and Variety may not be opining on behalf of the WGA or SAG, but they are reporting facts about the situation. I tend to pull my information from a number of sources, including people actually involved in the negotiations, and I find that you can get useful information even if you don’t personally agree with what the person feels about the situation.
As for what SAG should or shouldn’t do, I don’t think it’s up to me personally, since I am a member of the DGA but not SAG. I certainly support the right of every guild and union to get a fair and liveable contract. I don’t think anyone is asking SAG to accept a contract that is unacceptable to its members.
There are certainly crew members who are understandably angry over the prior strike and don’t want to see another one happen. And they have a right to be angry about this. The crew I work with lost over 5 months of work as a result, and may be looking at an additional work stoppage. When they said they were unhappy before, they were told on multiple sites “We’re on strike for you, and you’re welcome”, which was an incredibly arrogant statement for anyone to make.
Basically, I agree with you that anyone that tells another guild to take a bad contract is out of line. But I don’t think that every negotiation is necessarily a matter of “fighting them for a fair deal”. And what’s on the table is not what the AMPTP has been saying from Day 1, regardless of what people are opining about it. And I don’t know anyone that seriously believes that the AMPTP wants to institute permament French Hours - that’s an obvious red herring and not even worthy of debate.
I personally believe that SAG will be back at the table very quickly after AFTRA negotiates its own separate contract, and that we’ll see a SAG contract worked out before the end of June. Just because some people want to fan the embers of this situation does not mean that anyone at the table really wants to see another fire break out. And those people who are standing outside the room trying to set it ablaze really should be ashamed of themselves.
Comment by Kevin — May 8, 2008 @ 5:55 pm
the actors guild wouldnt even be having this problem if the writers guild wouldnt of given away all their demands early in the strike and then the directors guild didnt ass rape the writers by sneaking in early and chucking even more!!! demands instead of letting the writers guild strike play out. so depending on whether youre a writer or a director youre either a fool or a traitor and the actors guild and the rest of us (btl) have to pay for your BS all over again
Comment by Big Toe Larry — May 8, 2008 @ 6:57 pm
I agree with Below the Line and Angry. This strike is helping the “few” while hurting the many. There are thousands of people behind the scenes to the hundreds in front of the camera. There are PA’s working minimum wage, Grips, Electricians, Background and Stand-Ins, Craft Service, Costumers, Make-up, Wardrobe, Cameramen, DGA, Sounds, Props….non of these people see the results from this sag strike. My husband and I have been in the business behind the scenes for years, and never will we see a penny from royalties…. Crew may make up to a hundred thousand a year, but that is at the cost of working 14-16 hours a day. Actors can make that much an episode (or so much more), and they are fighting without regard to those who make shows possible!!!
Comment by not again — May 11, 2008 @ 12:17 pm