UPDATE: Now Breach Of Contract Letters

83 Comments »

1. Please keep us informed on this. I think it will be interesting to determine whether these people actually want to make this show, or whether they want to “backdoor man” the unions.

   Comment by Dave — June 14, 2008 @ 7:40 pm

2. 14 more unemployed WGA writers. Go Patric!

   Comment by greg o — June 14, 2008 @ 8:02 pm

3. Sony’s move is laughable and embarrassing. You don’t have contract with these writers. And you can’t enforce the breach when you told these writers’ agents that the show would be WGA.

   Comment by HllywdDawg — June 14, 2008 @ 8:06 pm

4. Whether they signed their contracts or not by showing up to work they were “saying” they signed their contract by act of working.

   Good Faith negoiations (should have been) taking place, these guys didn’t walk into the writing room based on a keep working we’ll pay you something. If they did they’re idiots.

   This doesn’t excuse the breach of good faith by the Studio, merely an explaination of how they could be seen in breach when in fact there was no final agreement, probably a few hundred red-line copies.

   Comment by done studio contracts — June 14, 2008 @ 8:33 pm

5. i don’t understand. it is always the “Big studio” spin when it isn’t good for you. How about the idiots who worked for two months without a signed agreement and do you really think that they did not know it was IATSE.. Oh Well, their choice to be un-employed.

   Comment by greg o — June 14, 2008 @ 9:12 pm

6. uhhh…because months ago when the WGA was striking they could have worked under the guise of being on an IATSE show.

   This whole thing smells. Show me one person (other than these writers apparently) who doesn’t have their new potential contract in their hands or their reps hand within 30 minutes of agreeing in principle to come on board. It simply isn’t done.

   As soon as that paperwork came in it would have been painfully obvious which unions jurisdiction this show was being created under by the GIANT logo that every union puts at the top of their agreements.

   Comment by manny — June 14, 2008 @ 11:00 pm

7. NF- love your work. Your spin is even more adorable. My mileage rate just got cut from what we expected. Where’s my op-ed piece? Am I a patriot? Yawn.

   Comment by Anonymous — June 14, 2008 @ 11:41 pm

8. Greg O–

   It’s obvious from your post that you do not work in Hollywood. If so, you’ve surely worked on a job at a studio before your contract was signed. Often one can work on a show for a year before the contract is done. The reason? Studios tend to sit on unfinished contracts for months on end. If you insist on having everything signed before you start, you simply don’t get the job. Plain and simple.

   It takes A LOT for someone to walk off a paying gig. Especially in this job market. And especially after 100 days on strike. These people have mortgages and bills to pay. I’m sure it’s not a decision made lightly. For these people to take such drastic action, they must feel really lied to. I commend them for having the balls to stand up for themselves.

   If “Sit Down” is already an IA show and there’s no going back, Sony could still solve this problem quite easily. Simply give each writer on the show a studio overall deal (for the same amount as their show deal), then loan the writers out to their bullshit IA signatory shell company, Adelaide. That way, the writers get their health insurance and pension contributions, and there’s no problem with the show being IA. Of course, there’s the problem that IA writers get no resids, but Sony already boasted that they have “an internal mechanism” for doling out wga style residuals.

   The problem for Sony is, Fox doesn’t need this show! They have one animation slot open, and with 20th’s “Cleveland” coming down the pike, “Sit Down” is expendable. I have every confidence that Sony will fuck this up. They’re not bright people, and that place is do for a total personnel overhaul.

   Comment by BeenThere — June 14, 2008 @ 11:55 pm

9. Regardless of the circumstances, if all of the writers/creators of this show have the guts to walk off and risk their jobs in order to try and make it WGA covered, my hat’s off to them. ANYONE who’s in a union should respect that type of courage. And anyone that goes in and takes their jobs as a non-union worker or as a member of a phony sweetheart union like IATSE is a F-ing scab. Period.
   (this does not apply to all IATSE jobs and situations obviously, but I think it clearly applies to this one)

   Comment by animation writer — June 15, 2008 @ 12:19 am

10. Wait, didn’t the WGA take jurisdiction over animation (and reality) writers off the table when they kissed the AMPTP’s ass? So the “Sit Down, Shut Up!” scribes were on their own from the git-go, right?

    Comment by Santayana — June 15, 2008 @ 6:03 am

11. I’ll bet dollars to dinars that there are memos, e-mails, and other messages showing promises that it would be a WGA show. Because anyone who screws a show into the ground before it even airs with their shenanigans, will probably leave a paper trail of their blunders.

    What was the executives thinking? That WGA writers would just give up their contract so easily after the unpleasantness of the strike, and even if they do get a breech of contract suit filed and somehow forces them to write, whatever comes out will suck and the show will be canceled faster than any non-reality show Fox airs.

    If anyone needs to be fired, it’s the people who cooked up this hare-brained WGA/IATSE scheme in the first place.

    Comment by Furious D — June 15, 2008 @ 7:21 am

12. hey been there,
    yes i am in a union in hollywood. Local 44. and when i or any of my cohorts work, we find out if this is a union show; whether it is cable, hbo or regular rate. the fact that it was an IATSE show and you hoped your union could make it a wga show. when that failed, like the strike, you feel that you are entitled and that everyone else has to bend to your will. Guess what, the business model changed and the wga worked themselves out of a lot of jobs. you have no one to thank or complain to except yourself. GO IATSE!!!

    Comment by greg o — June 15, 2008 @ 7:57 am

13. This is a perfunctory move. You don’t need a signed contract to have an enforceable agreement and I’m sure Sony’s legal beagles are reserving their rights (even in the absence of executed documents).

    Still a stupid move on a lot of people’s part.

    Comment by BigToysRUs — June 15, 2008 @ 8:15 am

14. “Because if everybody were always on board about this being an IATSE show, why did this dispute only blow up now vs months ago when the WGA writers were hired?”

    This sums it all up for me, Nikki. They clearly weren’t informed by The Studio and neither were their Reps. The Writers had absolutely no choice in this and had to take this stance. The sad thing is it could have all been avoided had the Studio been upfront and honest about it.

    Comment by PJ - Writer — June 15, 2008 @ 9:12 am

15. A lawsuit would be a big favor to the writers, but the studios won’t let it get there. They’re just posturing - making one painfully transparent last ditch effort at bully tactics. THAT’S what is YAWN.

    Comment by x — June 15, 2008 @ 9:20 am

16. unfortunately you’re wrong on this one, nikki. as much as we would all like to believe that the studio execs at Sony are moustache-twirling bad guys tying the poor defenseless writers to the railroad tracks, they never flat out lied to the writers. did they mislead the writers? possibly, yes. but the fact of the matter is that Sony has NEVER produced an animated show under the WGA, and even though i think the writers are justified in walking off the show if working under a WGA contract is very important to them, i think everyone’s goal if they care about walking back on to the job is to stop the pointless name-calling in the press and figure out a real solution to this thing. We forget sometimes that Hollywood is a business, but also a community. Egos are involved. Everyone wants to save face in this situation. But its difficult to save face when everyone’s hurling pies at one another.

    Comment by sit down shut up — June 15, 2008 @ 9:25 am

17. Maybe Bill & Josh and Mitch Hurtwitz, the producers, should have informed the people that they hired, right..they hired the writers..that it was an IATSE show. Sony or Adelaide did not hire the writers…the producers did…so why are people all upset with the studios when its the producers who hired the people and its the producers who knew it was IATSE and it was the producers whom thought they could get a WGA deal. why are the producers not being held accountable. just askin?

    Comment by betty — June 15, 2008 @ 10:01 am

18. To Greg O who writes:

    “i don’t understand. it is always the “Big studio” spin when it isn’t good for you. How about the idiots who worked for two months without a signed agreement”

    This is pretty typical practitce in tv staffing. People start working before contracts are finalized (though not before fees are negotiated) because by the time staffing is finished, there is a time crunch.

    That said, there does seem to be a weird discrepancy between the studios’ and wrtiers’ account. If I had to take a guess as to what happened, I would guess that the business affairs people at the studio told the writers’ agents’ that it was an IATSE show (or at least the deal memos mentioned this) but that this was not communicated explicitly, and nobody noticed until now.

    That’s just an educated guess, though.

    Comment by Mike — June 15, 2008 @ 10:25 am

19. This is the same crap we SAG actors are getting with AFTRA. Bait and switch. The breakdowns say “union” which has always meant SAG. AFTRA was always specified since it’s always a much lower contract. Then you get there only to find out it’s AFTRA. Not to mention that AFTRA has a different contract with EVERY SINGLE SHOW. Not a template that they use for a TYPE of show, EVERY SINGLE SHOW cuts a new deal with AFTRA. It’s a huge hassle trying to find out what the deal is on each show. Some union !

    I applaud the writers on Sit Down and Shut Up for honoring their union. Drawing the line in the sand is one thing. Crossing over it is entirely another thing.

    Peggy Lane O’Rourke

    Comment by Peggy Lane O'Rourke — June 15, 2008 @ 10:26 am

20. Betty: Actually, Sony and Adelaide *did* hire the writers. Josh and Bill and Mitch may have told them who to hire, but it’s the studio business affairs folks who do all the hiring– the showrunners are pretty far removed from these kinds of issues, and I think it’s nuts to blame them.

    Comment by Mike — June 15, 2008 @ 10:27 am

21. As a WGA member, my contracts specify that my employers must be WGA signatory — and that clause is there to make sure my work is covered by the WGA MBA. In TV, often writers are WGA and members of the crew are IATSE, so these are not mutually exclusive unions on a show. Animation is in flux, and that’s the problem here. I’m certain these writer’s contract state this is WGA work. If not, frankly, quitting/protesting is the right thing to do and they have a beef with their agents — who get paid to make sure these contracts protect them. This is an agenting issue as well.

    Comment by ME Tinker — June 15, 2008 @ 10:52 am

22. IATSE is a scab union

    Comment by Vince — June 15, 2008 @ 11:57 am

23. Why is it always someone else’s fault or responsibility when things don’t go the way we “want” them to be not they way thing are? People take responsibility for your own stuff! The WGA contract did not include animation. I would think that if you are signing on to an animation show, that has historically been an IATSE covered arena that especially now. you should proactively be reading the terms of your contract? I find it hard to fathom, that grown up professional people, that struck for more than 100 days would continue to be passive and take things at face value? And just leave it to an agent, studio, producer to make certain that all the ducks were in a row. We all have personal choices in this country and with it regardless of how many handlers we think we deserve or have we, we alone are responsible for ourselves. If something doesn’t seem “right” or its vague or there is a question, blithy going alone and then blaming everyone else just makes me incredibly sad. I just nixed a contract that when verbally was explained to me was a far different animal than when I got it in weiting. I sadly, but responsibly walked away from the job and you know what. 2 months later those that just signed have also now worked for 2 months without being paid and will probably not get it. Good luck with your next gig.

    Comment by soozie q — June 15, 2008 @ 12:05 pm

24. Thank you ME Tinker for finally saying it: Where were the agents during all of this? This is really bad communication at work, and the agents seem to be left out of the discussion.

    Comment by Paul — June 15, 2008 @ 12:32 pm

25. MITCH, BILL AND JOSH, NEED TO WALK OFF THE SHOW AND DEMAND THEIR WRITERS GET ANOVER ALL DEAL TO END THIS.

    It’s the show runner’s responsibility to tell the studio that they are only working as a WGA signatory show regardless of the studios previous history. If they want my show or me to run one of theirs, that’s the requirement. It should have been in Mitch’s deal, and Bill and Josh’s deal.

    EVEN I KNEW the show was to be IATSE months ago. Sony was telling everyone they called to help with their lousy looking animation that that’s how they were going hire the staff. I couldn’t believe it when I heard it. CALL THE ANIMATION STUDIOS THEY HAD IN TO WATCH THE CRAP SONY STUDIO ANIMATED. We were ALL told IATSE.

    Comment by BIG GUNS MUST WALK OFF — June 15, 2008 @ 3:06 pm

26. Having had to watch the Show for an animation job, can I tell you, it doesn’t make any sense. It’s not funny. Very static - talking heads. I don’t see how it fits in at all with the Fox animation line up. Sony thought they were going to do it all in house and save a ton of money. When they realized Fox wasn’t going to allow for the shitty looking animation they provided, and had to go out to other animation studios and pay REAL money for it, they got scared about the cost. Mitch is notoriously slow as a show runner, plus he’s never done animation. So now Sony has to bring on Bill and Josh promising them a FULL YEAR’S SALARY to run the show Mitch can’t. IATSE was one way to cut costs.

    Maybe Sony just wants this show to go away because they can’t afford it.

    Comment by SONY NEED TO FLUSH IT — June 15, 2008 @ 3:12 pm

27. Sony is crazy to sue Oakley, Weinstein and Hurtwiz.

    The writers sony should sue for “breach of contract” are the ones that write for “Rules for Engagement.” From what I hear, the show’s supposed to be a comedy.

    Comment by JurisPrudence — June 15, 2008 @ 5:19 pm

28. Soozie Q:

    Prime time animation on Fox has not “historically been an IATSE covered arena” as you suggest. Family Guy, Simpsons, etc., all employ writers under the WGA contract. It is not at all unreasonable to expect Sony to do the same for this show.

    As someone else said, where were the agents in all of this? Remember that it really doesn’t matter for agencies whether the show is IATSE or WGA– they don’t commission WGA residuals anyway– so if anyone had the motivation to look the other way when negotiating these deals, it was the writers’ reps. I suspect it was a wilful failure to communicate on someone’s part.

    Comment by Mike S — June 15, 2008 @ 6:06 pm

29. Greg O -

    As a member of IASTE, maybe you’d be interested to know that the studios screw your brother IA members all the time. A few seasons ago, hundreds of IA members returned to their jobs on long running sitcoms to find out their wages had been slashed 33%. The studios switched the shows from film to digital, and exploited a loophole in the contract to fuck all your IA brothers over. These shows (Yes Dear, Still Standing, and Belushi among them) were all huge moneymakers, and on their way to syndication. What did your almighty IATSE leadership do? Not a thing. It would have been nice if someone sttod up for those folks. It sure the hell wasn’t you.

    I guess your attitude is that if your union does a shitty job taking care of its people, than all of them should. That’s a tragic, small minded way to look at things, but sadly, all too common.

    GO IATSE! ALL THE WAY TO THE POORHOUSE!

    Comment by WhyTheHate? — June 15, 2008 @ 8:24 pm

30. Against the law for Sony not to pay these writers for two months. Doesn’t matter whether they signed their contracts or not. Sony broke the law. Writers are eligible for thousands of dollars in penalties now, plus back wages. Sony business affairs has botched this. Writers should call the California Labor Commissioner’s office. (213) 620-6330. Ask about back wages AND penalties. File a simple form, and boom Sony loses.

    Comment by Anonymous — June 15, 2008 @ 10:16 pm

31. While everyone here seems to think the issue is about the WGA vs. IATSE…the REAL issue is:

    Who the hell are the yahoos running Sony that they would even allow this to get to this point??? It’s obvious why Sony TV’s rep is so bad these days…this latest debacle really should cause someone over there to finally clean house.

    Comment by Garth — June 15, 2008 @ 10:25 pm

32. THE LABOR COMMISSION did not step in when the big studios refused to pay us for work already delivered. Why would they do it now?

    The writers walked off the show due to a dispute about what their contract stated when it was sent to their agents, and the hopes they would persuade Sony to turn it into a WGA show instead. Unless it said WGA in writing when the paperwork went to your agent, you’re screwed. They can pretend that they “tried” to ankle IATSE and go WGA but it just wasn’t possible. They should pay you your IATSE rates and let you go find greener pastures. NEXT TIME - DEMAND TO SEE YOUR CONTRACT IN WRITING BEFORE YOU GO. THEY’RE COUNTING ON US HAVING “GOOD FAITH” IN THEIR WORD BUT THOSE DAYS ARE LONG PAST US NOW.

    You have power BEFORE you sign your contract. Your agent should be PROTECTING you from muddy messages from Sony, Mitch, Bill & Josh. LET’S HEAR FROM THE AGENTS OF THESE WRITERS ON “SIT DOWN.” WHAT’S THE PAPERWORK SAY THAT WAS SENT TO YOUR ATTORNEYS?

    The show runners may have thought that they’d go along with the IATSE deal, get the writers in place and then walk off the job if Sony didn’t cave to their WGA demands. Not a terrible plan, but one that they should have been up front about to the writers who signed on. Because sometimes plans like that just get everyone fired. Reagan and the air traffic controller firings comes to mind.

    And I’ve read several snide “thanks Patrick” remarks, as if the whole animation problem could be solved by one man. IATSE animators and writers continued working during our 4 month strike. If you all wanted in this union as badly as you claimed, you needed to walk off your jobs en masse and walk with us. We were in breach of contract, too. If one scab stays behind and works, it tells the studio there are plenty of scabs they can hire and they don’t need to negotiate with us. WGA members had bills, kids, medical conditions, and fear of bankruptcy. There just comes a point where you know you need to fight for what’s fair. And you can’t expect other people to do your fighting for you.

    I encourage ALL animation writers not covered under the guild to WALK OFF THEIR JOBS TODAY AND STAY OFF UNTIL WE’RE ALL COVERED BY THE WGA. STUDIOS CAN’T REPLACE YOU WHEN NO WRITER WILL STEP IN AND FILL YOUR PLACE. THAT’S TRUE SOLIDARITY. ANY SCAB WHO STEPS IN WHILE ALL OF YOU ARE OUT ON STRIKE, THOSE AROUND, TAKE DOWN THAT PERSON’S NAME BECAUSE THIS WILL BE RESOLVED AND THEY WILL NOT BE WELCOME TO WORK IN OUR INDUSTRY AGAIN.

    STICK TOGETHER LIKE THE CAST OF FRIENDS, PEOPLE!

    Comment by INDUSTRY WIDE WALK OFF! — June 16, 2008 @ 9:36 am

33. EVERY ANIMATION WRITER UNDER IATSE SHOULD WALK OFF THEIR JOBS TODAY AND STAY OUT UNTIL THESE COMPANIES ALLOW YOU TO BE COVERED UNDER THE WGA.

    STICK TOGETHER LIKE THE CAST OF FRIENDS. THEY CAN’T REPLACE EVERYBODY. SHUT THE TOWN DOWN AND DEMAND WGA. NO ONE CAN WIN THIS FIGHT BUT YOU. AND YOU’VE GOT A GREAT START WITH THE “SIT DOWN” SHOW LEADING THE WAY.

    PEOPLE WORKING WITH THE STRIKING WRITERS, TAKE DOWN ANY SCABS NAME WHO COMES IN TO WORK. MAKE A BIG LIST AND PUT IT ON THE INTERNET SO WE KNOW NEVER TO HIRE THESE PEOPLE AGAIN - NOT EVEN TO SHARPEN PENCILS.

    SOLIDARITY - HANG TOUGH WITH SAG. YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE REPRESENTED BY THE UNION OF YOUR CHOICE, NOT THE ONE THAT’S CHEAPER FOR THE COMPANY.

    HEY AGENTS — I’D LIKE TO SEE A COPY OF THE CONTRACT YOU LOOKED OVER FOR “SIT DOWN SHUT UP” AND RECOMMENDED YOUR CLIENTS TAKE!!!! I BET IT CLEARLY STATE IATSE ON IT.

    Comment by INDUSTRY WIDE WALK OFF! — June 16, 2008 @ 9:44 am

34. I think Mitch, Bill & Josh thought they’d go along with the iATSE thing, and once they had their staff in place, demand to be a WGA show. Hence the unclearness of how writers at an IATSE studio, who clearly tells everyone their IATSE, thought they were going to “work some things out” and become WGA.

    One of my first questions is: are you a WGA show? If they waffle about how the benefits are “just like” the WGA - I have my answer. They’re not.

    Does anyone really even care about this show? The buzz I heard was it was weak. The Jason Bateman was rifting on the demo reel about how little he was getting paid that he didn’t bother coming up with a character study, “They don’t pay me enough.” The actors joking around with each other was funny, but the animated stuff was death. Why is this animated at all? Put the actors on camera and let them do their funny thing. Who wants to see funny people in 2D? Give us the real thing.

    Comment by NO 2D we want 3D — June 16, 2008 @ 9:52 am

35. Dear “Industry Wide Walk Off!” :

    First of all, using all capital letters doesn’t make your stupid ideas any smarter, so KNOCK IT OFF.

    Second, the labor commissioner’s office — not “The Labor Commission” — can get involved here precisely because the writers on “Sit Down, Shut Up!” are being told it’s NOT a Guild show. For work not covered under a collective bargaining agreement (Sony says it’s not WGA, writers never joined IATSE) the labor commissioner’s office has a procedure in place calling for up to six weeks of pay as a penalty for an employer who willfully refuses to pay you. (Willful in this situation is defined as not paying even though they agree the work was done.) That means that by filing a simple form with the labor commissioner’s office these writers will not only get their back pay, but a penalty equal to six times their weekly salary.

    For you — as for me — when the big studios refuse to pay us for work already delivered we can not avail ourselves of the labor commissioner’s procedure because our work was done under a collective bargaining agreement that calls for arbitration to settle all disputes.

    So basically, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. But anybody who read your ALL CAPS screeds would have known that already.

    In fact, as a self-proclaimed fellow writer, why would you deter these writers from advice that will mean big money for them? The only real answer is that you are a shill from Sony who’s afraid these writers will follow this procedure, which given what Mitch and Josh and Bill must be getting paid per week, would quite possible cost Sony more than a million bucks in penalties when all is said and done.

    Comment by Anonymous — June 16, 2008 @ 12:06 pm

36. I think this situation just provided the cover these writers needed to get out of this train wreck — once they discovered what working with Mitch was actually like.

    Comment by Honestly — June 16, 2008 @ 1:50 pm

37. Re: “INDUSTRY WIDE WALK-OFF”

    Please, walk off! I beg you!!!! It would be fantastic if all the IATSE animation writers would walk way. Cartoons would instantly become better once all the ‘kids’ cartoons were written by the storyboard artists. The best cartoons are written by artists- as they understand what makes a fundamentally visual artform work. The best Cartoon Network shows - Powerpuff Girls, Dexters Lab, Samurai Jack …written by the storyboard artists. Nick’s hit Spongebob - artist written show. All the classic Looney Tunes, Merry Melodies, Popeye, Tom and Jerry, etc…they’re not funny because someone typed up “Cat chases mouse. Cat crashes into wall” …they’re funny because of the artists. Disney’s current show “Phineas and Ferb” is written by the artists, and is doing quite fine without writers.

    Granted - I’ll concede that prime time animation is a different beast…it makes sense for them to be scripted like sitcoms, in my opinion …..but man…if all the “writers” on the kids shows went away…fantastic. Great cartoons would start popping up all over, with story back in the hands of the artists.

    Lets get rid of all these overly-talky, try-to-hard-to-be-hip, passionless visionless cartoons….writers, walk away!!!!

    Comment by Animation ARTIST — June 16, 2008 @ 2:20 pm

38. Animation ARTIST - I could not have said it better myself. Yes, yes, yes, and YESSSSSSSS!!!!!!

    Why do you think cartoons on cable became suddenly amazing when networks like Nick and Cartoon Network decided to try to do animation back in the early 90’s?

    Wait for it….here it comes….

    They let the ANIMATION FILMMAKERS and the ARTISTS THEY PROMOTED to CREATE THEM! Wow. Imagine that! How revolutionary.

    Comment by Another Animation Artist — June 16, 2008 @ 3:04 pm

39. Dear “Animation Artist”:

    If you got something to say, the world is waiting for you. Go ahead, trust me. If you’ve got some brilliant words to to put with your pictures, do it. But alas, like most people, you’re not good at two things. So why don’t you just shut up and keep on doodling and let the real writers handle the words. Thanks.

    Comment by professional writer — June 16, 2008 @ 3:21 pm

40. These writers should consider themselves lucky not to be working for the geniuses at Sony Comedy. What a train wreck. Sony Television, the place where comedy goes to die, is also notoriously bad at paying writers. Not paying them their quotes, paying them at all. They are absolutely the most difficult studio to get your money from and the don’t care. I hope this leads to Sony TV’s overhaul.

    Comment by NEVERAGAIN — June 16, 2008 @ 4:03 pm

41. The writers on “Sit Down Shut Up” are not going to be saved by the labor commissioner’s office. The writers had legal representation, called an agent, when they AGREED to go to work at SONY. Look at your contract, because you’re obviously a “Sit Down” writer who didn’t READ it before showing up to work.

    Everyone around town KNEW they were going IATSE. SONY told all the animators they paraded in there to animate the show that it was IATSE. And the animation houses will confirm that in a court of law. There was no secret. The writers went to work on an IATSE lot. Sony’s cheap. Get your pay and go work somewhere else. If Sony says you’re in breach of contract — then you better check that contract your AGENT agreed to on your behalf! If you see “IATSE” on it, you better sit down and shut up.

    I’m certainly not a SONY shill. I’m just a person who takes the time to read my contract and since I know what kind of cheap scum Sony is, I read their’s twice!

    Those out there still complaining that as animation writers you’re not covered by the WGA, then get out there with the “Sit Down” writers and walk the picket line. (AGAIN PROOF I’M NOT A SONY SHILL - WHY WOULD I ENCOURAGE CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE BY ALL IATSE WRITERS?)

    I agree with “Animation ARTIST” that they do provide a lot of funny visuals for Saturday morning cartoons without the help of a writer.

    Comment by READ YOUR CONTRACT DUDE — June 16, 2008 @ 4:22 pm

42. Omigod HONESTLY - you’re right! These writers should pray this show goes down and they don’t have to work under Mitch, or Bill & Josh. They all cwazy! Neither of them have a very good reputation with dealing with people at all. They kind of deserve each other. Maybe it’s some sort of a karmic debt thing. They’ll each implode the other.

    Comment by KARMA — June 16, 2008 @ 4:27 pm

43. As someone who has worked for both Sony TV and Mitch Hurwitz, let me say that it is a dead heat for who is worse. Mitch believes in the 7 day work week, 4 1/2 of which are spent pontificating about how many “levels” his comedy is working on. As for Sony, in a town filled with idiotic note givers, they really work hard to rise to the top. And by the way, their casting department is headed by perhaps the most unpleasant woman this town has seen since Gail “Jennifer Hudson Can’t Act” Berman.

    Comment by WG — June 16, 2008 @ 6:36 pm

44. Manny –

    You write:
    <>

    Television writers rarely _ever_ see contracts. (And even reps don’t see them for months — the language isn’t negotiated yet, you see.) Seriously, if I sign a contract before the season is over, it’s only because they’re refusing to pay my last 10 percent or whatever they’re withholding. A writer starting work knows the “important” deal terms — price per ep, title, options, shit like that. But I’ve never ever asked if a show is WGA or not. Why would I? Especially when the studio is telling me it is WGA, as is evidently the case with Sony.

    Bravo to the writers for standing up for themselves and walking. I hope their actions make Sony and the other studios realize writers actually grew a spine or two during the strike.

    Comment by Ashley Gable — June 16, 2008 @ 8:02 pm

45. “READ YOUR CONTRACT DUDE” is the same asshole who’s posting as “INDUSTRY WIDE WALK OFF!” as evidence by their love of caps and their obvious insider Sony desperation.

    I can’t believe the studios still have shills on their payroll like during the strike, pretending to be people with talent.

    Let me tell the writers of the show — if they’re reading this — that if you never signed your contract, while you may indeed have an oral contract, the agreed upon terms of such are very limited. For example, you probably had a per week or per episode rate agreed upon before you started. But if you didn’t sign your contract, that’s because your agent and/or lawyer was reserving rights while the rest of the document was negotiated.

    Regardless, if you’re being told it’s not a WGA gig, then you in fact DO have access to the labor commissioner’s office. Don’t take my word. Someone posted the phone number above. Call and ask. It’s that simple. Why will you be able to get your back pay plus a hefty penalty simply by filing a complaint? The answer is because Sony is in violation of California law. Legally, they are required to pay you within seven days of the end of your work week. Their violation is willful because they have paid you NOTHING. The lowest you could legally be paid is minimum wage and they have not paid you even that. And because they didn’t, they are “willfully” not paying you for work they can’t dispute that you’ve done. Thus, the labor commissioner’s office IS REQUIRED BY LAW, upon receiving your easy-to-file complaint form, to request back wages and substantial penalties from Sony.

    Sony must know this and are nervous that this opportunity has been pointed out to the writers, since they are now on the hook for possibly a million dollars in penalties alone, plus back wages, and so they have set their shills to work posting on the board here to deter people from pursuing this course of action.

    Someone has posted all the info above. Call the labor commissioner’s office. File your complaint. Get your back wages plus six extra bonus weeks as a penalty. Laugh at Sony’s blunder.

    Comment by Anonymous — June 16, 2008 @ 9:17 pm

46. Hi, I had to speak up because of “Read your contract dude” and his/her odd interpretation of the law.

    If you writers didn’t sign, what you can be said to have agreed to is very limited. This happens all the time in this biz. People start working while the contract goes back and forth. In these cases, while the contract is still being ironed out and going back and forth, about all that can be said to be agreed upon is the deal points that got your ass in a chair there in the first place. Namely, term and salary and credit. I find it hard to believe that 14 writers had agents who received contracts that said IATSE and no one mentioned this to their client or showed it to their client.

    It’s irrelevant whether “everyone knew it was going to be IATSE” if you guys didn’t know. It’s also irrelevant if “Sony is an IATSE” house. Doesn’t mean they could do your show as WGA if they wanted to.

    I highly doubt “Read your contract dude” is a Sony shill because shills are at least intelligent enough to have gotten hired by Sony in the first place. This is just some blowhard IATSE bulb-changer who thinks he knows the law from watching Boston Legal. Whoever he or she is, they’re an idiot, and ignore them.

    Not sure about the labor commissioner thing but sounds legit and a way to bring pressure if nothing else. And if you’re entitled to a substantial windfall because of Sony’s arrogance, then why not take it?

    Comment by Wheat from the chaff — June 16, 2008 @ 9:26 pm

47. Of course sony told the animators it was IATSE — that’s the union animators belong to. However, that doesn’t mean that the writers would also be covered by IASTE. Aren’t all Fox animated shows jointly WGA and IATSE? Aren’t all live actions shows jointly SAG/AFTRA, DGA and WGA? I can’t fathom why so many posters on this board think that’s some sort of smoking gun.

    Today, Variety did some fairly balanced reporting, and gave props to Nikki. According to the article, Sony admitted that some execs “may have” told the writers the show woulde be WGA. Sony then went on to say that the writers and their agents should have been smart enough to ignore that. They basically said in print “You should have known we would lie to you.”

    That cinches it for me — and probably for a civil court. Sony can be sued for fraud. The cheesy Zack VanAmburg and his idiot cohort should be fired on the spot.

    Comment by ImAFoxManMyself — June 16, 2008 @ 9:37 pm

48. EVEN A BROKEN CLOCK IS RIGHT TWICE A DAY…

    VARIETY PUTS THE BLAME ON SONY…

    EXCERPT BELOW:

    Now, it appears likely that some execs may have given assurances to scribes without fully understanding they couldn’t deliver. After weeks of promising that a WGA deal was in the works, the execs finally broke the news to scribes that it wasn’t happening.

    In a corporate statement, Sony didn’t address what the writers might have been told, instead focusing on what it claims the scribes should have known: That “Sit Down, Shut Up” would be an IATSE-repped project given that union’s deal with Sony Pictures TV’s animation division, Adelaide Prods.

    Comment by ImAFoxManMyself — June 16, 2008 @ 10:01 pm

49. Professional Writer - I can write, and I can draw…and I’ve done them both, and made some funny cartoons along with other artists who can write and draw.

    I’ve worked with great writers as well - writers who respect the artform of animation. When there’s mutual respect, you get a good show…it’s collaborative storytelling, getting writing and visuals to work in sync.

    Your tone really shows how you don’t respect the artists in animation…sad, but unfortunately common.

    Comment by Animation ARTIST — June 16, 2008 @ 10:27 pm

50. During the WGA strike, the AMPTP issued the following statement:

    “Your Animation proposal, W-14, is likewise unacceptable. As you know, there is another union which has long had jurisdiction over the work you are now seeking to cover by your proposal. We believe that it should be up to the writers in this field, using the procedures carefully established by Congress in the 1940s‚ in the same legislative act that validates the very existence of Writers Guild of America, East and West‚ to express their desire as to whether they wish to be represented by the WGA or that other union.”

    It seems the writers of this show have voted with their feet.

    Comment by Klaatu — June 16, 2008 @ 11:01 pm

51. I hear ya, WG! Mitch ran the writers into the ground on “Ellen” and again on “Arrested.” Maybe he doesn’t want to go home at night. Bill & Josh are big fans of endless days & nights. Why doesn’t Mitch, Bill and Josh just write all the episodes themselves? Let the other writers go live a normal life and get paid real wages on a WGA show.

    Better yet, spare us all another not-so-funny show from SONY. Till Death??? AAAAAHHHHH! Fire the comedy department at Sony. Do us all a big favor.

    Comment by SO LONG SONY — June 16, 2008 @ 11:47 pm

52. Honestly, if this show were to never air, I don’t think it would be a big loss. That is some seriously ugly character design going on in that picture up there.

    Also, as any Howard Stern fan can tell you, the title is merely a flip of the Stern show’s long running catchphrase “Shut up! Sit down!” If I wanted unfunny, watered down material ripped off from Stern, I would listen to (D)Opie & Anthony. And I don’t.

    Comment by Rich Drees — June 17, 2008 @ 5:40 am

53. KARMA: You couldn’t be more wrong.

    I have worked for Bill and Josh and I can honestly say that you won’t find two better guys to work for. They listen to the ideas of EVERYONE they hire on a writing staff. They invite participation in every aspect of the show. They’re funny and smart. They respect their writers’ schedules and personal lives, never keeping anyone late unless it is absolutely necessary. I have worked as a writer for about 15 years on numerous shows and working with them was the best experience I have had.

    Comment by Reid Harrison — June 17, 2008 @ 8:58 am

54. Let all the writers go and let Rough Draft come up with something clever. And fire everyone in the Sony “comedy” department, too. Time for a face lift at Sony. They just can’t get it together, even when FOX hands it to ‘em on a silver fucking platter.

    Comment by clean the Sony House out — June 17, 2008 @ 9:26 am

55. Dear Animation Artist,

    I respect animators. What makes you think I don’t? My criticism is directed at you only, not your brethren. I’m singling you out because you’re the kind of douchebag who would call yourself “Animation ARTIST” with capital letters like that. Why don’t you just go the whole douchebag route and call yourself an artiste. You know you think you are one.

    As for saying you’ve written funny stuff, well, I’ve found that most people who claim publicly that they’ve written funny stuff, have not, and are not funny. What exactly have you written that’s so good? Tell us. We want to hear. Aren’t you proud of it? C’mon — tell us.

    Comment by professional writer — June 17, 2008 @ 10:09 am

56. What’s with all the IATSE shills posting that it’s obvious it’d be an IATSE-covered show?

    The show is for Fox, in primetime. All the other Fox primetime cartoons are WGA. This show is even a Fox co-production. And as Variety — hardly a WGA-friendly entity– reports: Sony execs were telling the writers and their agents that it’d be a WGA show.

    Seems like there was no reason for anyone to think this would be anything other than a WGA show. Which legally, if Sony made those assurances, the writers have a pretty good case that it is indeed now a WGA show no matter Sony’s change of mind.

    It saddens and sickens me to see these IATSE staffers and members posting anonymously here. IATSE membership is just jealous that the WGA membership had the balls a few years go to throw out our too-close-to-the-industry leadership and replace them with leaders with balls. Leaders who took us out on strike to get a deal that the entire town said couldn’t be gotten. Leaders who were able to take the shittiest deal ever offered to a Hollywood union and shove it right down Nick Counter’s fat pork-hole.

    IATSE at this point is as much an arm of the industry as the AMPTP. They are the laughingstock of the town, and the black sheep of the labor world after having sided with management against their fellow union. Well, that last part’s not entirely true since it could hardly be considered accurate to call them a union anymore.

    Comment by I'm in a REAL union — June 17, 2008 @ 10:20 am

57. Sorry - there’s about 45 other writers who’ve worked with Bill and Josh who can’t stand them. They were notorious on The SImpsons for not being able to make up their mind, hating to run the room so they made other people do it for them, they argued endlessly with each other, so unless they’ve been abducted by aliens and have been rewired to interact with the real people of this earth, it’ll just be mayhem all over again. And I like the way you couched “UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY” because they must have found it absolutely necessary to ruin our lives every single day they ran the simpsons.

    Comment by 24/7 — June 17, 2008 @ 10:43 am

58. Animation ARTIST,

    I’m sorry, but I’m finding your posts fairly inconsistent and even hypocritical.

    On the one hand, you’re pleading for “respect” and a certain tone, but on the other you are really bashing animation writers, even if unintentionally.

    The fact that you deny there are writers on Spongebob and Phineas and Ferb specifically demonstrates that you are either ignorant, or disrespectful of those writers contributions to those shows. Because I can tell you both shows have a WRITING STAFF. What are the writing staffs of those shows doing? Do you even know? Do you understand what role they play in the process? I’m not sure you do.

    You are representing yourself as some kind of insider who knows that these shows don;t need writers and might even be better off without them (your first post completely suggested this — “It would be fantastic if all the IATSE animation writers would walk way. Cartoons would instantly become better”) but I think you are really just a “hater.”

    If you really are an animation ARTIST, I hope only that you get what you wish for — a job on a show without writers.

    Comment by animation producer — June 17, 2008 @ 12:16 pm

59. I hope that writers keep working on cartoons so that they can continue to write bloated 20 page scripts (for a ten minute short) which ultimately need to be edited and made coherent by the board artist. Don’t forget that without writers we wouldn’t have genius dialogue like “I hate fall fashions, those sweaters make me look chubbo” (quoted from Loonatics, spoken by a character that never wears clothes.) Obnoxious, prattling, jokey rants rule!

    Comment by I love writers! — June 17, 2008 @ 1:50 pm

60. 24/7,

    You made up everything you just wrote. You clearly do not actually know Bill and Josh. I am not sure your motivation. Maybe it is to feel important by pretending you were a Simpsons writer.

    Bill and Josh are nothing like you describe, and their reputations as inspirational showrunners who are great to work for is well-known throughout the writing world.

    Comment by worked for B & J — June 17, 2008 @ 2:43 pm

61. I love writers!,

    Yes, you have made a fantastic point. All writers hand in bloated scripts that are incoherent, and write dialog such as you quoted from Loonatics. You have really stuck it to writers! As a group, writers are so dumb! And you have proven that for all time. No one can take that away from you. Nice.

    I can definitely understand why you would be so bitter and unable to let go of your anger.

    Comment by chubbo — June 17, 2008 @ 3:43 pm

62. Hey “I love writers!”

    The 20 page scripts may be bloated, but without those scripts, your board artists would be flipping burgers.

    Comment by Jay Weerm — June 17, 2008 @ 4:04 pm

63. I clearly DO know Bill and Josh. Ask around at The Simpsons and see how “popular” they are there as show runners… or should I say “you” are there, Bill & Josh. You’re the only two people from The Simpsons staff who would call yourselves good show runners. Um you weren’t asked back to do the movie. Did ya kinda notice????

    Comment by In The Know — June 17, 2008 @ 5:21 pm

64. 24/7:

    First of all, did you even work for Bill and Josh? If not, then it’s hearsay and should be valued as such.

    Second - “Couched?” No, I stated it as a factual representation of what happened. Rarely did we have to stay late: I mean maybe once or twice a month. Period.

    Third - I may not know as many people who know Bill and Josh as you claim to know (actually, you don’t even claim to know them, and if you *don’t* your case is even more ludicrous), but I know a group of them who have certainly worked with them far more recently and to a person they have vouched wholeheartedly for them.

    I decry your fallow argument, and I shall have my tartar sauce!

    Comment by Reid Harrison — June 17, 2008 @ 5:27 pm

65. Well I’m sure the Sony Execs who told the writers that the show would be a WGA show feel so bad about this crazy botch that they’re going to pay the difference themselves to make it right.

    Comment by Sony Making It Right — June 17, 2008 @ 5:28 pm

66. Uh, hey In The Know, how is it clear that you do know Bill and Josh?

    Baffled by your lack of cogent rhetoric,
    Barney

    Comment by Barney — June 17, 2008 @ 7:12 pm

67. In The Know A.K.A. 24/7,

    I think I might be falling in love with you.

    Comment by Worked for B & J — June 17, 2008 @ 7:39 pm

68. re: In the know

    Am I correct that you are implying that Bill and Josh are writing letters to this site under a pseudonym… and yet you are unwilling to state for the record who you are? Sheesh. Kinda lets the air out of your little rant, Puffy.

    Comment by Will C — June 17, 2008 @ 10:40 pm

69. Yes, I am angry that I have to work late into the night to do two people’s Jobs, the writer’s and my own.
    My final plea before I end my bitter life:
    1. please start with solid outlines instead of writing stream of consciousness scripts.
    2. Please remember that the story setup should not be 50% of your script, forcing you to abruptly end your story and leave five setups unresolved.
    3. Please learn to recognize “filler dialogue” and “keyboard masturbation”
    4. Despite your disdain for artists, please take a look at the show’s character designs once in a while. This way you’ll know, for example, that a character has tentacles rather than legs.
    5. Please learn the difference between a half hour show like the Simpsons and a ten minute short. No matter how hard you try to bend time and space, There will never be enough room for an A and B (or C!) story in a ten minute short.
    6. if you do all that, you’re welcome to stop by for some burgers, on the house.

    Comment by I love writers! — June 17, 2008 @ 10:43 pm

70. what ‘i love writers’ said.

    and please avoid trying to sell your own show while committing the sins listed above, chatting about how much money sit-com writers made in the 80’s, and opening up your residual checks in front of crew.

    Comment by an yet another artist — June 18, 2008 @ 8:33 am

71. I love writers!,

    My plea to you:

    1) Go back to your cubicle.

    2) Draw good.

    Thank you.

    Comment by chubbo — June 18, 2008 @ 8:37 am

72. I worked under Bill and Josh and my experience was every bit as described by blogger above: Nights. Endless nights. Night after night and night. They were never in the room. They argued over every decision. Maybe Reid Harrison caught them on a short lived stint. You were given a script on The Simpsons, you didn’t have to work there season after full season. Your experience will be different than those who did.

    Regardless of my experience with them, and my other co-workers exact same experience with them, no one should be told they’re working for a WGA show and then have the union switched after signing on.

    The Sony executives who mislead the writers should be fired, and the writer should get to choose which union they want to be a part of. I did hear from the horses mouth (SONY) that they were hiring writers under IASTSE. We weren’t discussing animators. I’m just confused why I heard Sony say the writing staff would be IATSE and the staff they ended up hiring didn’t. How was is it such common knowledge to animation studios, me, and others in the industry, but shielded from the actual writers who interviewed and accepted the job?

    That’s some kind of shitty manipulation and I hope there is a class action law suit. None of us like the old bait and switch thing and I don’t want them to get away with it.

    SUE SONY

    Comment by SUE SONY — June 18, 2008 @ 11:38 am

73. Chubbo -

    I know you! You’re that PA in the next cube eternally pitching your wacky premises to the writers between story meetings. I also met you at Comicon - you’re the ‘idea’ man looking to hire artists for a flat fee to visualize your comedy genius. See ya at the soda machine!

    Comment by artist in cubicle next to writer — June 18, 2008 @ 1:05 pm

74. For what it’s worth, I worked with Oakley and Weinstein on the same show Reid Harrison did and my experience matched his.

    Comment by anonymous — June 18, 2008 @ 4:57 pm

75. artist in cubicle next to writer ,

    Wow. You are even showing disdain for production assistants. Those guys (and gals) work their butts off for no money. And they SHOULD have ideas and dreams and big plans and pitch themselves and try to get their ideas off the ground — that’s the whole point. I have nothing but respect for hard-working PA’s with big goals for themselves!

    You are angry at all the wrong people.

    (I recognize my previous comment to you was “mean-spirited” but it was mainly meant to illustrate how condescending your know-it-all “how to write” post was.)

    Anyhow… no offense, I hope, all in good fun…

    Comment by chubbo — June 18, 2008 @ 7:15 pm

76. You weren’t on staff at The Simpsons Reid Harrison.

    Poll us.

    Comment by Reid NOT so much in the know — June 18, 2008 @ 8:32 pm

77. No, I was not on staff, nor did I ever claim to be. I worked with Josh and Bill on “The Mullets.” That was my only experience working with them other than on pilots.

    I also never said that your (collective) experience with them was fabricated. Look back through the posts and you’ll see that what I addressed were posts that were condemning but which did not specifically state that the author had actually worked with Josh and Bill. Given the amount of uninformed backbiting that exists in this business through scurrilous rumor passing, I made that point. Would it not be patently unfair to impugn someone without having had firsthand experience?

    It would appear you mistook my language to mean that I did not believe the claim of someone who had had such firsthand experience. If my choice of words was ambiguous, then I apologize, but I did attempt to be very careful about that. Again, I had zero experience with Josh and Bill on The Simpsons (and for the record, it was not they who gave me a script).

    I am sorry that your experience with them left such a bitter taste. Truly. I have had bad experiences on shows and it makes life a drag. However, I had a fantastic experience working with them and after they were outright flayed in this thread, I felt it was right and fair to present another side to the issue.

    Look, I know most of you over there and I’m sorry if I pissed you off. I would not NOT believe any of you. But I have read too many posts on DHD blogs that say (as the original poster said) “Those guys are cwazy” without any indication of personal experience. This is the reason I decided to go ahead and use my actual name.

    Hope this clears up any hard feelings.

    Best wishes,

    Reid

    Comment by Reid Harrison — June 19, 2008 @ 6:11 pm

78. Who the fuck is Reid Harrison?

    Comment by Hollywood Insider — June 20, 2008 @ 8:17 pm

79. The Mullets didn’t last long. I don’t “impugn” lightly. Just a heads up for the writers of “Sit Down Shut Up” of what’s to come.

    Comment by beware — June 22, 2008 @ 6:17 pm

80. Yo Hollywood ‘Insider,’

    Reid Harrison is a very good writer and a personal friend of mine. Who in the fuck are you?

    Comment by David Stern — June 24, 2008 @ 6:35 pm

81. Yo Hollywood Insider,

    Reid Harrison is a very good writer and a personal friend of mine. Who in the fuck are you?

    Comment by David Stern — June 24, 2008 @ 8:26 pm

82. I’ve met Reid Harrison a few times and he seems like a decent guy. One thing he isn’t is a pussy who disparages people by name without using his own.

    Comment by Rob Bushkoff — June 26, 2008 @ 9:31 pm

83. As valued as prime time animation writer’s may be, I think the artists should be equally valued and compensated.

    The writer’s do wonderful work but it’s the artists who bring all those expensive words to life.
    Twelve to fourteen hour days. Seven days a week during crunch. No paid overtime. It’s physically and mentally exhausting.

    I’m sure if you stuck the artists in a room, they could come up with a pretty decent script.
    Stick all the writer’s in a room and there’s no way they could animate a show.

    Comment by attached on the inside — June 27, 2008 @ 11:26 pm

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