4th UPDATE (more new information throughout): Let me recap what happened tonight, first and foremost. The Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers today at 2:35 PM put a so-called revised proposal, including a list of demands, on the bargaining table to flesh out its New Economic Partnership for the Writers Guild Of America.
The WGA described to me that the AMPTP's latest New Media terms were the same old/same old. But I'm told agent Bryan Lourd, considered an objective source, believed that the new AMPTP proposal bettered the studios' and networks' terms on the table for New Media. It included an improved, albeit slightly, streaming deal for theatricals.
A controversy erupted over the AMPTP's arrogantly issuing demands for the negotiations to continue. They ordered the writers to immediately take Reality TV and animation jurisdiction off the table, remove the no-strike clause in their contract (meaning that, once their own strike was settled, the writers must cross picket lines if the Screen Actors Guild goes on strike), stop insisting on a fair market value test (aimed at keeping the studios and networks from selling entertainment product back to themselves at a lower price than they could get from an outside company), and no longer demand a distributor's gross definition on New media (which the WGA argues could gut all its New Media proposals). See the AMPTP's ultimatum here for yourselves.
I'm told that, after the AMPTP ultimatum was made, the WGA negotiators (above left, WGA's John Bowman. All photos here courtesy of Jim Stevenson) went to caucus inside a hotel room. Faced with what to do about the AMPTP's take-it-or-leave-it demand, "we were still going to make a counter-proposal in the hopes of keeping the negotiations going," recounted WGA negotiating committee member David A. Goodman, who was there, in an email. "However, we were all pretty clear that they were setting us up."
After about an hour and a half, the AMPTP claims it sent Bryan Lourd to the hotel room to ask what was happening, and he was told by the WGA they were preparing a counter-proposal. The AMPTP says it asked Lourd to find out if that counter-proposal contained anything from the list of demands which the networks and studios wanted the WGA to take off the table, and that the WGA negotiators wouldn't say.
But the WGA's Goodman (left) disputes the AMPTP's account of what happened. "As we were discussing what to do, [AMPTP president] Nick Counter came looking for David Young. He asked him, in the hallway, "Are you going to take those things off the table?" David said we were working on our counter-proposal, but wanted to present everything at once, [and] he wasn't going to negotiate in the hallway, and said we would be making a counter proposal very soon, that night."
The AMPTP version is that, at 6:05 PM, Counter knocked on the hotel room door trying to find out some indication from Dave Young what the WGA was going to do, especially on the reality/animation jurisdiction and no-strike issues. Counter brought Bryan Lourd along "as a witness," the AMPTP told me. "David Young answered and was visibly angry."
But the WGA's Goodman says this is wrong. "David was not 'visibly angry". All the conversations in the hallway were amicable, if tense."
According to Goodman, "Nick came looking for David again and tried to motion David away from Bryan Lourd's door (where Bryan was standing), but David motioned Bryan to follow them so he heard what Nick said."
Bryan Lourd told people privately that he counseled the WGA negotiators that "this was their maximum moment of leverage" and urged them to try to "trust" the AMPTP, but the WGA told him they couldn't at this point. "It was an ultimatum. They said unless we take everything off the table except streaming and ESTs that they're not going to negotiate anymore and basically they're leaving until we'll remove all those other things," a WGA board member explained. "We're not accepting an ultimatum. We're here to bargain and to talk." (right, Reality TV writer speaking at WGA's march down Hollywood Blvd.)
Both sides agree on what Counter then said to Young: "In that case, we are leaving and breaking off negotiations. When you send us a letter confirming you will take all these items off the table, we will make an appointment to resume negotiations with you.”
The AMPTP claims the WGA hotel room door slammed shut. But Goodman says, "No door was slammed."
Then AMPTP president Nick Counter hand-delivered the following letter to the WGA's executive director Dave Young which was also cc'ed to Bryan Lourd:
This will confirm the conversation we had today at approximately 6:05 PM, in the presence of Bryan Lourd, in which I asked whether the WGA was preparing a proposal in response to the proposal given to the WGA by the Companies at approximately 2:35 PM this afternoon. You advised that the WGA was preparing such a proposal. I asked whether any of the six issues that the Companies had earlier today advised the Guild must be withdrawn before negotiations can proceed further would be included within the proposal the WGA is preparing. You responded that you did not know because you were still working on the proposal.
I informed you that when the WGA sends me a letter confirming that those six proposals are withdrawn, the AMPTP will schedule another negotiation session with the WGA.
Immediately thereafter, the reps for the studios and networks quit the negotiations and issued their press statement already in hand blaming the writers for the breakdown in talks. "Under no circumstances will we knowingly participate in the destruction of this business."
But the writers said their side considers that the talks are still ongoing and insists they won't stop negotiating. Then the WGA issued its own statement saying, "We remain ready and willing to negotiate, no matter how intransigent our bargaining partners are, because the stakes are simply too high."
In short, things are back to being a big mess.
What's amazing about all of the above is that the AMPTP followed almost to the letter a script which they themselves conceived and wrote earlier in the week. I had reported Thursday night that the reps for the studios and networks planned to break off today's talks. This morning, the WGA issued a sternly worded statement calling out at the AMPTP for the plan to stop the negotiation just as it was getting go. Indeed, just as I had predicted, the AMPTP had a news release at the ready tonight announcing why it was leaving the talks. So did IATSE local boss Tom Short, indicating he was working in concert with the AMPTP tonight to blame the WGA.
One thing for sure: no one can have any doubt this time around who walked out on these negotiations and who stayed in. Not even professional spin doctors can change that. And it's also obvious which side understands the concept of haggling.
First, here's the WGA statement which goes into detail about what happened tonight:
AMPTP BREAKS OFF NEGOTIATIONS
Today, after three days of discussions, the AMPTP came back to us with a proposal that included a total rejection of our proposal on Internet streaming of December 3rd.
They are holding to their offer of a $250 fixed residual for unlimited one year streaming after a six-week window of free use. They still insist on the DVD rate for Internet downloads.
They refuse to cover original material made for new media.
This offer was accompanied by an ultimatum: the AMPTP demands we give up several of our proposals, including Fair Market Value (our protection against vertical integration and self-dealing), animation, reality, and, most crucially, any proposal that uses distributor’s gross as a basis for residuals. This would require us to concede most of our Internet proposal as a precondition for continued bargaining. The AMPTP insists we let them do to the Internet what they did to home video.
We received a similar ultimatum through back channels prior to the discussions of November 4th. At that time, we were assured that if we took DVDs off the table, we would get a fair offer on new media issues. That offer never materialized.
We reject the idea of an ultimatum. Although a number of items we have on the table are negotiable, we cannot be forced to bargain with ourselves. The AMPTP has many proposals on the table that are unacceptable to writers, but we have never delivered ultimatums.
As we prepared our counter-offer, at 6:05 p.m., Nick Counter came and said to us, in the mediator’s presence: “We are leaving. When you write us a letter saying you will take all these items off the table, we will reschedule negotiations with you.” Within minutes, the AMPTP had posted a lengthy statement announcing the breakdown of negotiations.
We remain ready and willing to negotiate, no matter how intransigent our bargaining partners are, because the stakes are simply too high. We were prepared to counter their proposal tonight, and when any of them are ready to return to the table, we’re here, ready to make a fair deal.John F. Bowman
Chairman, Negotiating Committee
Prior to this, the AMPTP issued this statement:
We're disappointed to report that talks between the AMPTP and WGA have broken down yet again. Quite frankly, we're puzzled and disheartened by an ongoing WGA negotiating strategy that seems designed to delay or derail talks rather than facilitate an end to this strike. Union negotiators in our industry have successfully concluded 306 major agreements with the AMPTP since its inception in 1982. The WGA organizers sitting across the table from us have never concluded even one industry accord.
We believe our New Economic Partnership proposal, which would increase the average working writer's salary to more than $230,000 a year, makes it possible to find common ground. And we have proved over the last five months that we want writers to participate in producers' revenues, including in theatrical and television streaming, as well as other areas of new media. However, under no circumstances will we knowingly participate in the destruction of this business.
While the WGA's organizers can clearly stage rallies, concerts and mock exorcisms, we have serious concerns about whether they're capable of reaching reasonable compromises that are in the best interests of our entire industry.
It is now absolutely clear that the WGA's organizers are determined to advance their own political ideologies and personal agendas at the expense of working writers and every other working person who depends on our industry for their livelihoods.
Instead of negotiating, the WGA organizers have made unreasonable demands that are roadblocks to real progress:
-- They demand full control over reality television and animation. In other words, they want us to make membership in their union mandatory to work in this industry - even though thousands of people in reality and animation have already chosen not to join the WGA.
-- They demand restrictions designed to prevent networks from airing any reality programs unless they are produced under terms in keeping with the WGA agreement. This would apply even to producers who are not associated with the Guild. Their proposal artificially limits competition and most likely would not withstand legal challenge.
-- The WGA organizers are demanding the right to ignore their bargained "no strike" provision, allowing them to join in strikes of other labor organizations.
-- Their proposal for Internet compensation could actually cost producers more than they receive in revenues, thereby dooming the Internet media business before it ever gets started.
-- They insist that writers receive a piece of advertising revenue - even though the producers that pay them don't receive any of this revenue in the first place.
-- They want a third party to set an artificial value on transactions, rather that allowing the market to determine the worth of each transaction. This would result in producers having to pay residuals on money that the producers never even received.
These are the terms the WGA organizers demand for ending the strike - money that doesn't exist, restrictions that are legally dubious, and control over people who have refused to join their union.
Besides betraying a fundamental misunderstanding of the economics of new media, such as a streaming proposal that would require us to give them more money than we make ourselves, the WGA organizers are on an ideological mission far removed from the interests of their members.
Their Quixotic pursuit of radical demands led them to begin this strike, and now has caused this breakdown in negotiations. We hope that the WGA will come back to this table with a rational plan that can lead us to a fair and equitable resolution to a strike that is causing so much distress for so many people in our industry and community.
Perfect. Just as we all expected.
Now the WGA can immediately take Reality jurisdiction and No Strike Clauses off the table (because writers don’t much cae about those issues anyway), proclaim they’ve made an enormous concession, and invite the AMPTP to talks tomorrow morning to continue on the other issues.
And then watch them squirm to explain why they still won’t come back.
Comment by jimmy — December 7, 2007 @ 6:11 pm
Well, the WGA predicted it and the AMPTP did just what was expected. These guys never intended to make a deal. Their plan is to bully, divide and conquer. Maybe it’ll take a year, but let’s see how their bottom line does without scripted content.
Comment by Picket Boy — December 7, 2007 @ 6:22 pm
Damn them! And by them, I mean the AMPTP. I am so disgusted with them, and I can’t believe they are playing it this way. I mean I can, but I can’t, because it’s just so repulsive.
I am so pissed off that they aren’t willing to settle this strike fairly and in a timely manner, and getting people back to work and getting my shows back on the air, and are trying to play the poor martyr card and trying to make the WGA the bad guys.
Damn it! I know it wasn’t a high possibility, but I was still hoping we could have this strike settled by Christmas, or New Year’s by the latest. This just sucks. The AMPTP are worse then the Grinch, and I hope they choke on their egg nog.
Comment by A Disgruntled TV Fan — December 7, 2007 @ 6:22 pm
Their Quixotic pursuit of radical demands led them to begin this strike, and now has caused this breakdown in negotiations.
You mean, actually getting paid? The nerve of some people.
Also, isn’t it kind of hard for the studios to claim that the writers broke off talks when they’ve already gone on record saying they are willing to negotiate night and day through the holidays and beyond?
Watch out for that lightning!
Comment by just a viewer — December 7, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
It sure would suck if the DGA came in to negotiate their contract now that the AMPTP is taking this hard line with the WGA. I heard the statement from the DGA that they are going to do what’s best for their members, but given the attitude of the AMPTP and the writer/director relationship, I’d hope the DGA will respect the WGA and realize it’s not just about doing what’s best for all the members of the DGA - you also have to think about the world in which you live and operate. Writers and Directors and Actors all work for The Man. And The Man is being a jerk. If the DGA looks at the possible break in the WGA talks to be a good time for them to look after themselves, then they are not brothers to the writer. They are not friends to the writer. They are opportunists. It would be a lame, selfish act that would resonate for years - just as this AMPTP crap statement is going to remain in the hearts and minds of writers as they negotiate future deals with the folks who are members of the AMPTP. Folks like Google, Yahoo and others should smell an opportunity here. Fans will continue to flea from watching what the networks are showing, but the studios will never admit fault and will continue to throw verbal crap at any leadership that opposes them. Stay strong WGA - stand with us, DGA. And thanks for the support SAG. This cause is worth fighting for. And it won’t be easy to get what is fair. But, in the end, it’s not just a question of doing what’s best for the future generations of writers, it’s also about doing what’s right when the folks opposing you are complete jerkweeds (yes, I made that word up, I think).
- writer outside the gates who wishes he saved some of the above for a monologue in my next script.
Comment by outside the gates — December 7, 2007 @ 6:24 pm
Sounds like they went through a few drafts of that release… They probably started working on it last Friday.
Comment by Dagazzi — December 7, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
Wow - they walked away. They walked away… Huh, guess this shouldn’t surprise me by now. My favorite contradicting statement they make is:
– The WGA organizers are demanding the right to ignore their bargained “no strike” provision, allowing them to join in strikes of other labor organizations.
Then trying to paint the picture that we’re out for ourselves, when what we’re asking is to be allowed to honor the picket lines of other unions. Amazing.
Oh, also love the idea that we’re trying to force people in our union who don’t want to be in it. Like my reality writer friends wouldn’t like fair payment, benefits, and to be paid for their overtime work. And, like my animation writer friends wouldn’t like to get a small payment when their work is replayed, and resold.
This is amazing. I’m amazed. Thank you AMPTP for continuing to amaze.
Comment by Kate Purdy — December 7, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
It’s simple. Nick Counter and the AMPTP left. That’s the physical fact. No press release by IATSE or the AMPTP will change that physical fact. The new high priced PR firm may repeat it enough to make it the prevailing truth, but it will never be the real truth.
showrunner
Every time I think I’m too tired, they do something that gets my energy and resolve back. I hope this is how we’re all feeling.
Comment by Showrunner — December 7, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
Here we go again. The AMPTP is playing the game of “if you don’t want to play our way, we’re taking our ball and going home.” People who are serious about negotiating don’t walk away from the negotiating table.
Seriously, who writes these press releases? Do they really expect WGA members to rise up in arms against their guild leadership because the AMPTP tells them to?
And who is this average screenwriter making $230,000 a year? Where do they come up with these numbers?
Comment by Riley — December 7, 2007 @ 6:29 pm
Remember: the companies are crying wolf. They are hurting. They’re already having to give back money to advertisers. Their claims of “destroying this business” would be funny except for the terrible suffering their intransigence causes. Game shows and other non-fiction shows should be covered — they would be if the producers had to abide by the clause covering such programming in the contract they’ve approved and ignored year after year. the rest of their yowling on that point is nonsense — they’re already being investigated by the state for not paying overtime because they refuse to consider their WRITERS as employees covered by the guild. They’re not even paying these writers properly according to the time cards they have to submit every day. The idea that the WGA is asking for money the moguls don’t have is idiotic — look at the public stockholders material — an easily available assessment of their current profits and future growth in new media. And don’t believe the negotiators for the WGA are “incompetent.” Verrone et al are ready to negotiate. They’re not ready to sign off on whatever the AMPTP sets in front of them. Calling them unable to do their jobs is just a union busting tactic and must be ignored. I would have thought this AMPTP letter was the text of a YouTube video from “Roger Trevanti, Producer,” but they left out the part about “I hope you all get asshole cancer and die.”
Comment by Another Hyphenate — December 7, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
This is just another stall tactic, not enough damage has been done YET. The companies have their little playbook and this quarter is already covered financially. It won’t be until the end of next quarter till some of the Companies start losing money, by then over 300 Million in Network Ad Revenue and shares will be downgraded by Wall Street so I don’t think they think they have to make a fair deal till the second quarter of next year which I and many of my Writer Buddies have been saying all along.
A strike past June (SAG Contract Expiration) will in effect shut down production and that may be where this is heading before we get a fair deal.
Hiring professional smear merchants like Chris Lehane won’t help this relationship AT ALL and it seems the AMPTP wanted to get these PR people on board before they walked to, in effect wage a PR War, and that is what this is now. PR War = Stalling…
This latest breakdown is simply a repeat of the tactics AMPTP depolyed in Nov, no new proposals from AMPTP after we dropped DVD increases, then when the clock struck 12, they blamed us. Same thing here, we get bullshit proposals with no math behind them, then no promised new proposals, we ask where the beef is, they walk out and blame us. It is SO lame..
Money talks, bullshit walks and bullshit is walking away again. But they can’t get very far…
See you dickheads in June.
Maybe it’s time for some of the Companies to break ranks and sign deals separately before the balance sheet bloodletting rises to waist level, Disney , CBS, you guys can NOT affor this anymore…
Comment by PJ - Writer — December 7, 2007 @ 6:32 pm
AMPTP to WGA:
“Surrender Dorothy!”
Comment by Anonymous — December 7, 2007 @ 6:35 pm
depressing. it is true about the streaming. there is no money there. but oh well. now what? they hold out until…?
Comment by caughtinthemiddle — December 7, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
How can we be asking for more money than comes in from the Internet when we’ve asked for 2.5% of what comes in?
Oh, the lies.
Comment by Klaatu — December 7, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
Interesting that the Producers are demanding that the wga take the five bullshit demands off the table. Reality? Share the advertising? Going out on strike with other unions? Please… It’s all about streaming, downloads, and webisodes. The download formula will be the same as the dvd but at a slighly higher rate. Webisodes should be a set fee and a renewwal fee. Streaming will basically be the same thing. The quicker we get there, the quicker we go back to work.
Comment by old writer — December 7, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
I want you to post, Nikki, exactly where each of these SOBs are headed for the holidays and on whose dime. I think you’ll see they are not going to Disneyland, but their villas in Europe and the islands on private luxury jets owned by their shareholders. It’s time to play very hard ball here and bring these Consolidators an Enron verdict. America is being sold to these media giants by Congress and by the big six lining the pockets of political candidates to forward medias agendas. Is there anyone out there paying attention???? I am proud the WGA is the first in line to bring them down. It can happen if the BTLs and all of Hollywood stands united. You can see they are scared because this threat that WGA should not strike with other unions means they know they are up against us all. (Where the hell did that come from?) Everyone make a stand here and shut this town ALL THE WAY DOWN. There is no way to negotiate a deal here. It’s there way or no way, but united it will be WGA, DGA, SAG, AFTRA, ITSAE way!
Semper Fi
Comment by Semper Fi — December 7, 2007 @ 6:39 pm
At this point, it seems like we’re dealing with people who are focused on nothing but PR moves.
On both sides of the table.
Lock everyone in a room and throw away the key until this f’ing thing is over.
Tenacious D was fun and all… but come on.
And if personality conflicts are getting in the way? Get rid of those people…
Comment by BJS — December 7, 2007 @ 6:39 pm
– The WGA organizers are demanding the right to ignore their bargained “no strike” provision, allowing them to join in strikes of other labor organizations.
that was my favorite part. did the AMPTP not realize that the contract containing the “bargained no strike provision” expired on October 31st? This is what happens when they hire Clinton hacks from outside the industry to writer their press releases. But at the very least, they should have had someone in the industry proofread it. Then maybe someone would have pointed out to the authors that there are not “thousands” of writers currently employed on reality shows.
They have gone from having a PR disaster on their hands to looking like they don’t even understand the basics of their own industry. You can bet that after this press release there will be a whole new round of firings and new PR firms brought in next week.
Comment by Anon Writer — December 7, 2007 @ 6:44 pm
As someone who has nothing to do with the industry, I was just following all this with interest before, but now I’m actually angry. That AMPTP press release is disgusting.
Comment by just a fan — December 7, 2007 @ 6:44 pm
I have said a few disparaging words about the WGA in the past few weeks and still think they’ve done a good job of shooting themselves in the foot. But it’s clear that the AMPTM are the bad guys here– they can’t even write a press release worth a damn. This is going to spin VERY badly on them. Alas, I wonder if they care at all.
Comment by Average Joe — December 7, 2007 @ 6:45 pm
http://strikeadeal.blogspot.com
Below-The-Liners: Stand and be counted this Sunday at 9am - Hollywood and Highland. We need to demand serious negotiations from both sides - not this clash of egos the AMPTP and WGA’s been wasting their time with.
Comment by SoonToBeUnemployed — December 7, 2007 @ 6:46 pm
Also: everything the AMPTP lists as unreasonable are our STARTING POINTS for negotiation. We think their “New Economic Partnership” sucks and they think our proposals suck.
And then we negotiate and ensure we’re both equally unhappy with the deal and we all go back to work.
There’s no doubt this was just a PR move and a psychological tactic.
Who knows, they may come back next week. Maybe they want a couple more rounds of raising and then shooting down hopes before they finally engage in real negotiations.
They haven’t a shred of humanity left. They’re corporations run by their stock price, and the pesky humans are really starting to get in the way. It’s basically the Matrix with conglomerates instead of computers.
Comment by Dagazzi — December 7, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
HAHAHA!
‘We were shocked that the WGA decided to walk away. So surprised in fact that here’s a lengthy and bullet note filled position paper that reads about as spur-of-the-moment as a powerpoint presentation.’ Way to prove people wrong who predicted you had planned this all along.
Comment by please try and be less obvious — December 7, 2007 @ 6:53 pm
I heard the following earlier in the week and it appears now to be true:
The AMPTP will not return to the negotiating table until February. And when they do, they will be negotiating with the DGA, not the WGA. That’s the next play in the AMPTP’s “divide and conquer” playbook.
Comment by exstudioexecwholoveswriters — December 7, 2007 @ 6:58 pm
By the way, any dealings between the AMPTP and DGA are completely irrelevant to these Negs. At most, any deal made should be considered a metric, but that is all it is. It is incidental to our contract, at best.
There has been a lot of media coverage about this, as if it meant something. It is just another “divide and conquer” tactic the flak trades are running for the Companies. Like some transparent talking points.
AMPTP/DGA dealings have absolutely no influence on what most Writers consider a fair deal for us.
So, don’t believe any of THAT bullshit either.
Comment by PJ - Writer — December 7, 2007 @ 7:00 pm
WGA, please, do not take anything else off the table. Leave it all there. These tactics to make you feel pressure from members, or the hollywood community, so you’ll just keep removing stuff, will not work. Let them play their games. And just wait for them. Calmly. Like you’re doing.
Comment by Anonymous — December 7, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
“I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore.”
– Paddy Chayefsky (Network)
Given the crazy rhetoric of the AMPTP and the offensive nature of their negotiating tactics, the WGA is more unified than ever. Not at all happy about not working but willing to see this through to the bitter end.
You got what you asked for, Nick Counter.
Comment by WGA Writer — December 7, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
I know the issues are more detailed beyond ‘Four More Cents’ but that is where everyone was at 5 weeks ago. SAG was with the writers. Full support. Where the hell did the Reality porposal come from? Why stray from the issue that truly affects your Union brothers and sisters? That is the Internet! Reality certainly doesn’t help those who rely on scripted shows for work…Screen Actir’s Guild. Maybe the host of the shows is AFTRA…but someone please explain why Internet didnt remain the primary focus and an SAG should still feel so 110% behind the cause now? Please no anger, just convince me. I really need to know because the Reality Proposal was not something I signed up for.
Comment by Reality really? — December 7, 2007 @ 7:03 pm
I am really tired of all of this.. I wish you all could just figure it out… my family is suffering and we are not even writers…. don’t be greedy on both sides… just figure it out!!!!
Comment by mxxmnsljkdaxikmikmik — December 7, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
Well this could all be settled quickly- just have all the WGA and AMPTP people go into the back room, get the tape measure out, and see who has the bigger ones (the WGA probably by a mile)..
I was thinking two months when this started- I’m thinking double it at least now…
Comment by DW — December 7, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
So where is Bryan Lourd in all this now and what is he doing?
Comment by Anonymous — December 7, 2007 @ 7:09 pm
The AMPTP statement contains several personal attacks on the WGA negotiating team, suggesting that they are both incompetent and rigidly ideological. This smear is vintage Chris Lehane, who used to be a loyal Democrat but is now a union-busting little twerp, I’m sorry I was ever friendly with the guy.
Comment by Walk The Line — December 7, 2007 @ 7:14 pm
Screw both of you. Heroes was ruined because of the strike and Lost and 24 won’t be on the air.
Damn you both!
Comment by Anonymous — December 7, 2007 @ 7:15 pm
What happened to Bryan Lourd never letting it get to this?
Comment by Concerned — December 7, 2007 @ 7:16 pm
Don’t you just love that AMPTP line talking about the WGA “artificially limiting competition”?
There’s only 6 studios!
Jeez, they’ve got some f’ing balls, man.
Comment by bodnotbod — December 7, 2007 @ 7:17 pm
The only time the word “negotiator” is used is when they describe the “union negotiators” who have concluded deals with them in the past.
WGA doesn’t have “negotiators” they have “organizers.”
Because the AMPTP PR people decided that sounds as close to “Communists” as they can get away with.
So they’ve decided to repeat the word over and over again until it sticks.
Transparent much?
And “New Economic Partnership?” Is that the “Shock and Awe” of this negotiation?
People watch Colbert and The Daily Show (well, not any more) — everybody sees through this stuff now. It comes across as silly and propagandistic.
Like “The Great Leap Forward.” “The Five Year Plan.”
You know, real Commie stuff…
Comment by deg — December 7, 2007 @ 7:21 pm
A betrayal of this proportion on December 7th, the 66 anniversary of Pearl Harbor is amazingly ballsy.
I really believe, having read the AMPTP’s lie-filled press release that the only response is Cordell Hull’s response to the Japanese ambassadors after the attack. It’s amazingly appropriate:
“In all my 50 years of public service I have never seen a document that was more crowded with infamous falsehoods and distortions - infamous falsehoods and distortions on a scale so huge that I never imagined until today that any Government on this planet was capable of uttering them.”
Comment by anotherWGAmember — December 7, 2007 @ 7:21 pm
How tragic and yet predictable. This is not a negotiation, it’s a hostage situation, and the AMPTP is holding a gun to the entertainment industry’s head.
There are too many lies and distortions in the AMPTP’s letter to count, but just to pick one tiny example:
“In other words, they want us to make membership in their union mandatory to work in this industry - even though thousands of people in reality and animation have already chosen not to join the WGA.”
In fact, the vast majority of children’s animation writers would LOVE to work under a WGA contract. Why? Because even though our episodes are rerun thousands of times and appear on DVD’s throughout the world — we get no residuals from our employers. Zero. And the biggest laugh is the bit about having “chosen not to join the WGA.” On the contrary, many of us are already members of the WGA who write under the jurisdiction of an IATSE union that doesn’t represent our interests whatsoever. Or worse, we work for non-union animation companies, which pay even lower fees, don’t contribute to any P&H, provide no credit protection, etc., etc. So hang in there, fellow members — otherwise, the animation writer’s past and present… is your future.
Comment by WGA Animation Writer — December 7, 2007 @ 7:23 pm
you are all out of your minds, this has got to stop. put your egos aside and figure this out NOW
Comment by urallidiots — December 7, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
I’m waiting to see how the paid AMPTP trolls on this board try to spin this one.
Or did they go home for the weekend?
Comment by waiting — December 7, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
The AMPTP said: “Union negotiators in our industry have successfully concluded 306 major agreements with the AMPTP since its inception in 1982. The WGA organizers sitting across the table from us have never concluded even one industry accord.”
Translation: For the first time in 25 years someone finally stood up to the big bully Nick Counter, and Counter responds by taking his ball and crying all the way home to his Mommy.
The moguls didn’t waste any time firing Barbara Brogliatti; i bet Nick Counter is out of a job by January.
Comment by AMPTP's a disaster — December 7, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
The WGA has to put some blood in the water. That’s all these guys will ever respect. Pick the company with the most to lose and make them a one-time offer. Break ranks with the AMPTP and sign a lucrative deal with us or FOREVER be blackballed. No more WGA writers, show runners, story editors. Ever.
We are going to have to bring down a studio in flames before the ever tak us seriously.
Comment by anotherWGAmember — December 7, 2007 @ 7:30 pm
Y’know, perhaps it would be a good strategy for the WGA to perform all future negotiations confidentially with the AMPTP. Just a thought, and I’m not sure what all the implications would be.
Comment by Dan — December 7, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
I say let this be the dawn of a new era. If I were Google or Microsoft or any internet company with deep pockets, I would promptly make a deal with the writers and put them to work. Successful independent filmmakers have proven they don’t need the studios to find big audiences. Now it’s time for television writers to do the same thing. I really hope internet companies see the opportunity in this. It’s time to find a new playing field.
Comment by Will S. — December 7, 2007 @ 7:37 pm
Those billionaires stole Christmas.
Shame on them.
Comment by Archie Berman — December 7, 2007 @ 7:39 pm
I think the AMPTP made it clear that they need writers when they capitalized “quixotic” for no good reason (copywriters anyway)
Comment by Anonymous — December 7, 2007 @ 7:39 pm
A quote from the AMPTP’s statement:
“They insist that writers receive a piece of advertising revenue – even though the producers that pay them don’t receive any of this revenue in the first place.”
You read that right, folks: the AMPTP is insisting that they don’t receive any revenue from the advertising they sell.
The money… it just disappears! We don’t know where it goes! But we sure don’t know what happens to it!
They’re paying a publicist to write this stuff? If they’re going to lie, they could at least try to make this stuff logically plausible.
Comment by logic police — December 7, 2007 @ 7:39 pm
This is a disaster movie of the Erwin Allen kind but the main nemesis is the EGOS of Hollywood. This is why in the ego world there are winners and losers and the collateral damage the working class in the world become the new homeless of downtown skid row.
Earlier today I got a call from my well placed friend at the studios who said the studios are planning on an early Holiday because all the profits they’re making on the Writers Strike. The AMPTP will find a small excuse so that can end the talks until after the Holidays that’s way their fourth quarter profits will show a huge increase in last year because of the Force Majeure in town.
This is a tactic only Dickens could conceive of … too “Scrooge” them at Christmas so that AMPTP can watch us all eat from the garbage cans on the street below their studio office windows.
I don’t totally blame one side or the other I blame the EGOS of Hollywood wherever they breath.
Peter Chernin you know who you are. You had the chance as well as your counter parts to give us all a good Christmas but now we must eat the food SOVA gives us in the soup lines in West Los Angeles.
Merry Christmas Peter Cherin. Ba humbug!!!!
Happy Hanukkah Jeffery Zucker
Chris Jackson
writer
Comment by Chris Jackson — December 7, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
If I see another “we should make deals with each separate studio” post, my head may explode. This idea, in no way, shape, or form benefits either side. IT’S.NOT.GOING.TO.HAPPEN.
On the studios side…why would they? Would the soap opera writers go and cut their own deal because they don’t want the same things as movie writers? Uhhh, no. So why would one studio?
And on the writers side, this whole strike depends on the union holding together and everyone supporting it. You think the writer on an ABC show is going to be anything other than pissed off beyond belief that the CBS writer is going back to work and he’s not? All the people feeling like they got sold out would start scabbing, and the guild would splinter within weeks.
Actually, that’d probably be a something for the studios to try…get the company with the least at stake to make a deal, and then watch the infighting between writers that get to go back to work and writers that don’t destroy the WGA from within.
Comment by think before you type — December 7, 2007 @ 7:48 pm
Hideous. It’s quite amazing how badly the AMPTP are coming off in this exchange. Maybe this sort of baldfaced lying would’ve worked if it had been a misinformation campaign from the start, but the WGA points are established in the minds of the public. I can’t believe they’re spending the time and money to try and erase the past month, rather than just focus on finding the damn money and bargaining fairly.
I’ve seen a lot going around about adopting a Silicon Valley style of production. Now it looks like you’ll definitely have the time, do it. I know that sounds facile, but talk to the FunnyorDie guys. Start a site, create content channels and a schedule, hire some internet geeks to run the nuts and bolts (I say lovingly, as one of said geeks), and then stream the content for something like 3 days. Then either talk to Apple or figure out your own way to do a pay-for-download system. Jump at the opportunity.
Sure, the finished product might not be as polished as the old studio output, but every startup industry has its issues. When the reruns really start to sink in, be there with new content. As we all know, it’s the story that matters, and whoever’s ready to provide new stories wins.
Comment by Nina — December 7, 2007 @ 7:51 pm
Nikki, I’m not in the industry but I’ve been following your coverage of the negotiations with great interest. Have been wavering, but now, shocked and disgusted by the AMPTP press release, I’m 100% on the side of the WGA. If there’s anything we non-industry folks should be doing (besides boycotting webisodes), commenters, let us know. We’re reading.
Comment by watching from the sidelines — December 7, 2007 @ 8:05 pm
Nikki just called out IATSE’s Tom Short for being in collusion with the AMPTP…GOOD!!!
Comment by boo — December 7, 2007 @ 8:07 pm
Let’s not forget that no script becomes reality without millions of dollars invested by the very corporations everyone wants to demonize, along with the efforts of hundreds of people (most of whom are tossed out of work right now — paycheck-to-paycheck working folk with no stake in this and no strike fund). No script, no TV or movies. True. Also, no money, no TV or movies. Both are absolutely necessary for this business to continue.
The producers are looking at the sorry state of the music industry and worrying about the future, and not without cause. If these big corporations decide that making movies and TV shows no longer represents a reasonable investment that they can defend to their stockholders, a lot of screenwriters may be staging their works in the backyard with the neighborhood kids. Not everyone is George Lucas, who writes checks to himself.
As we see in the Rust Belt of America, companies are not immortal, no matter how rich and strong they seem.
Comment by Kit — December 7, 2007 @ 8:08 pm
Here is what is going to happen:
The DGA will open negotiations with the AMPTP. They will close a deal and that agreement will be the basis of what all the unions will accept for Internet distribution. It will be better than the last proposal made to the WGA but not close to what the WGA has requested.
The networks will show to wall street that their net profits are up because of their reduced costs and despite any drop in ratings.
The talk shows, which are the only parts of the network schedules that have truly been damaged so far, will go back on the air. They will follow Letterman’s lead, probably around Jan. 7th.
The AMPTP will launch a publicity campaign featuring the suffering of those put out of work by the strike. IATSE will help with campaign. They will also put out more information about how much top showrunners and screen writers make.
Some movies will fall apart, others will come back together-in the way Brad Pitt dropped out of State of Play and Crowe stepped in.
Eventually, probably in the spring, the WGA and AMPTP will come back to the table, with the help of a government negotiator, and the WGA will agree to the Internet formula already negotiated by the DGA. They will give up on all of the reality TV provisions, as well as the “sympathy strike” stuff. Some small bone in another area, probably PH&W or minimums, will be thrown their way as a “face saver”.
Pretty much what could have been concluded now.
Comment by Gavin Polone — December 7, 2007 @ 8:11 pm
AMPTP doesn’t plan to return to the table until next year.
They walked away tonight so they could leave for holiday vacations. While everyone else is unemployed.
Who’s starving the community?
BTL, get on AMPTP’S case. Pretty clear now who’s starving you.
Comment by insider — December 7, 2007 @ 8:13 pm
I read all of this, from both sides, and I want the truth. Not the PR spun AMPTP version, or the PR spun WGA one…and I don’t believe we are getting the unvarnished truth from either side. I am sorry, but I flat out REFUSE to see this is a black and white good guy vs. bad guy situation with the WGA in the white hats. Maybe the AMPTP is jerking them around, but I have a feeling the WGA is jerking right back, and starting a few fights of their own as well.
BOTH sides need to come together, the truth is always somewhere in the middle, and I for one refuse to believe the WGA to be blameless and merely at the mercy of the “asshole” AMPTP. There are 2 sides in this battle, and I am POSITIVE low blows have been thrown by both. Until that stops…ON BOTH SIDES…nothing but creatively worded press releases will come out of these talks.
Comment by Anonymous — December 7, 2007 @ 8:14 pm
So they opened their latest statement with the usual distortion about the average writer’s salary. Then tried to justify their walking, by citing what they called “unreasonable demands” by the WGA:
“Instead of negotiating, the WGA organizers have made unreasonable demands that are roadblocks to real progress…”
And number three on their list of “unreasonable demands”?
“The WGA organizers are demanding the right to ignore their bargained ‘no strike’ provision, allowing them to join in strikes of other labor organizations.”
Actually, the WGA is “demanding” the right to re-negotiate their expired contract which, unless I’m mistaken, is the point of the negotiations. Yeesh.
In any case, this clause only indirectly benefits the WGA. It does, however, directly benefit any other union that may find itself in a labor action (which seems more and more likely by the day with these yahoo’s). So pass this on to any Teamsters, DGA member, or any other union member you may know.
From the AMPTP’s own mouth: the WGA is standing up for you.
You gonna stand up with us?
(that’s “stand” as in to maintain an upright position, supported by your feet)
Comment by Writor — December 7, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
Is David Young really this stupid? I bet some writers on the negotiating committee are yelling at him right now. Brian Lourd probably wishes he never got into this mess.
Comment by Nice — December 7, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
Young children, when they are caught lying, even with the evidence right in front of you - will deny, deny, deny. Their egos can’t take the humiliation of not being right. That’s when the grown ups have to just wait. Thanks, WGA, for being the grown up. We will perservere, and get the deal we deserve - one that’s fair and reasonable.
Comment by Gwendolyn Parker — December 7, 2007 @ 8:18 pm
The studio moguls said: “under no circumstances will we knowingly participate in the destruction of this business”
then stop making movies like “You, Me and Dupree” you incompetent morons!
Comment by A fan who's ready to boycott — December 7, 2007 @ 8:23 pm
We should have done a REAL exorcism!
Comment by Michael — December 7, 2007 @ 8:23 pm
For no other reason than I’m sick of hearing his lies, I hereby submit to you the following:
Nick Counter’s salary for 2006: $1,564,350. Plus benefits.
That means the average salary of a “working” AMPTP employee in 2006 was $1,546,350.
Do with this information what you will.
Comment by deepthroat — December 7, 2007 @ 8:29 pm
Every writer i’m walking the line with voices the resolve to dig in their heels and not give up. Every bone head, insulting move the AMPTP makes and every pathetic press release they vomit only strengthens our resolve.
Does the AMPTP really think they’re going to win a war of words against writers?
You may have the big bucks, but we have the words… and ultimately
THE CONTENT.
Hey, maybe they can hire the PR guys to write their content?
Good luck with that.
Comment by thebitterend — December 7, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
Nick Counter’s letter: I asked whether any of the six issues that the Companies had earlier today advised the Guild must be withdrawn before negotiations can proceed further would be included within the proposal the WGA is preparing.
“MUST BE WITHDRAWN” — sure sounds like an ultimatum to me.
Comment by Anon writer — December 7, 2007 @ 8:33 pm
This is right out of the amptp playbook Tom Shulman wrote about. Raise expectations, then dash their hopes. The weak, sensitive, neurotic writers will fall apart at the seams. Well, Mr. Mogul, writers live with ups and downs, extreme anxiety and uncertainty just about every time we sit down to begin our work. So take your stupid bully tactics somewhere else — like a playground — WRITERS don’t scare that easy!!!!!
Comment by Jan - WGA writer — December 7, 2007 @ 8:37 pm
“– They insist that writers receive a piece of advertising revenue - even though the producers that pay them don’t receive any of this revenue in the first place.
– They want a third party to set an artificial value on transactions, rather that allowing the market to determine the worth of each transaction. This would result in producers having to pay residuals on money that the producers never even received.”
This is the most logical way to figure the flow of funds downstream for reuse, online or elsewhere it wouls seem. To claim these funds aren’t theirs is side-stepping the issue. They exist and thus are part of the pie.
The third party reeks of studio accounting and quick sand.
pb
Comment by pb — December 7, 2007 @ 8:44 pm
Seriously, take the reality and animation off the table. If they don’t want to be covered in the union, why even bring it up?
I think it’s time to start looking for a new line of work…
Comment by freelance worker bee — December 7, 2007 @ 8:45 pm
The AMPTP states that “the WGA’s organizers are determined to advance their own political ideologies and personal agendas at the expense of working writers and every other working person who depends on our industry for their livelihoods.” Hey, AMPTP… those “political ideologies” were expressed to the entire Guild before the strike and received an overwhelming 90% vote of support. And you continuing to dick us around because you haven’t yet accepted the fact that writers aren’t widgets that can be manufactured more cheaply in Taiwan only strengthens our resolve. Your shareholders are gonna have your heads when they see how you’ve damaged your bottom lines all to save a few measly million dollars…
Comment by Willing to Pump Gas — December 7, 2007 @ 8:47 pm
Dear Mr. Counterfeiter,
Having sat in on one of the 306 contracts you like to brag about, I can honestly say first hand the AMPTP does NOT negotiate. It intimidates other unions into rearranging of what it already has with a few crumbs thrown in to show how generous “the Companies”are. Does “the Companies” sound like HIT MEN to anyone but me?
I am praying the WGA holds fast and does not give you and the GREEDY people you represent that “strike clause” that would allow them to honor our strikes no matter how thirsty you are for it.
I worked in Reality and I also walked in the Realty Picket lines with those writers begging to be ABLE to join the WGA. Do you really think your PR Firms will be able to convince anyone a Writer in any media is going to say “No thanks, I’d rather not have union benefits and wages”! Yeah, I saw them sitting in front of computers all night long. Of course, they want to be represented. IF anyone said otherwise, it’s because they were stronged armed into it.
You and your evil twin, Tom Short OF CHARACTER can lie to anyone who will listen, but I have a feeling much of the world will turn a deaf ear and perhaps even silence their TVs of any NEW shows the people working today need to get back to.
Of course, we could all hope that just like Scrooge, you’ll be visited by Ghosts and the night before Christmas turn into human beings.
In the meantime, all the industry Crew needs to go out and walk in the Picket lines. Large groups of industry workers walking with WGA will go a long way to hurry this up.
The WGA needs to make some really good videos addressing the concerns and explaining all resources for financial and other assistance to the other unions. Some of my brother & sister Teamsters as well as lots of IA members are going to need help. The AMPTP is counting on it. Beat them in their own game and get these folks help in time.
Teamster proud to stand with the WGA.
Comment by Teamster — December 7, 2007 @ 8:50 pm
Dang, these AMPTP people!!!! Lets just put them on the wall and take away all their fancy toys, private jets, and multiple homes filled with gold and see what happens. I’m sure they will come to their senses then.
Comment by Anonymous — December 7, 2007 @ 8:51 pm
Another obvious lie in the letter was when the AMPTP described themselves as “disheartened” implying that they have hearts.
Comment by a writer — December 7, 2007 @ 8:54 pm
If they want to divide and conquer, they need to divide us first.
And offering us less than nothing, then walking out, ain’t gonna do it.
I’ll be back on the lines bright and early Monday morning.
See you all there.
Comment by checkerplayer — December 7, 2007 @ 8:55 pm
Way to go AMPTP!!!!!! You’re just making the situation worse!!!! I’m sure you can afford to give up some of your pay and give it to the really needy people. The WGA!!. I promise you, it will not hurt.
Comment by Anonymous — December 7, 2007 @ 8:57 pm
If the BTLs who have been reading and haven’t yet seen the truth, this move by the AMPTP has got to make it clear that the endgame is to screw ALL the unions. Writers aren’t being greedy, we’re being determined, we’re being unified, we’re being tough, we’re just the first union in line for a spanking the studios would like to give everyone. Don’t hate the striking writers; call the ridiculous, greedy, irrational and lying studio heads who are dragging this out and trying to cause division among the workers — and ALL of us are workers — and tell them to stop the greed. SHARE. PS Any BTL worker who is experiencing financial hardship due to the strike can apply for aid — contact the Motion Picture Fund or your own union website for more information on funds that have been set up to help.
Comment by 13 yrs working writer — December 7, 2007 @ 9:02 pm
Although riddled with classic one-liners, this one takes the cake — “They insist that writers receive a piece of advertising revenue - even though the producers that pay them don’t receive any of this revenue in the first place.”
I’m just a dumb writer, not a studio exec, so can someone please explain this to me? Who then, pray tell, receives this revenue, the revenue fairy? Or maybe advertisers merely leave it in the tip jar in the commissary. Or could it be that advertisers are given a free ride because the studios and networks can’t really figure out how this whole wacky internet thing works?
The AMPTP’s writers should submit this release as a writing sample to the studios. Who says creative writers aren’t getting paid in Hollywood right now?
Comment by Baffled Writer — December 7, 2007 @ 9:11 pm
Be realistic. We’re not as united as we were 5 weeks ago. attendance at picket lines is lagging considerably. You don’t see the resolve you saw 5 weeks ago. There is infighting. BUT - I’m prepared to dig in and hang tough. Maybe this major dissing by Counter et all will spur more wga members to walk the line.
Comment by Maxwell Smart — December 7, 2007 @ 9:20 pm
“I’m told even agent Bryan Lourd, considered an objective source, considered that the AMPTP proposal bettered the studios’ and networks’ terms on the table for New Media by offering slight upward movement on streaming, downloads and residuals” What does that tell you?
Comment by nice — December 7, 2007 @ 9:20 pm
The AMPTP issues an “Ultimatum”. Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes. May the force be with us all.
Comment by Master Yoda — December 7, 2007 @ 9:23 pm
Hey everyone, Gavin Palone is back! I’m so excited!
Does anyone know if Gavin ever worked for the Clintons? Or is he the only new AMPTP spokesman who didn’t?
Either way, trust me, the guy is a genius, a clairvoyant, and the messiah. So we really all should listen to him, because HE KNOWS WHAT IS WHAT and don’t you forget it!
Comment by InAweOfGavin'sBrilliance — December 7, 2007 @ 9:32 pm
Hey Gavin Palone is back!
Hey Gavin, why don’t you explain to us about your dinner with that friend of yours ONE WEEK before the strike started, during which you said, and I quote, “The writers should go on strike now and shut this town down. That is their leverage.”
Yes, Gavin, you said that ONE WEEK before the strike. And now, look at you, blathering like an attention needing baby,
Sincerely,
your friend
Comment by DA in LA — December 7, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
Not a bad audition, Gavin, but you’re still not smart enough or bad-ass enough to join our club and run a studio. Pass.
Comment by CEO — December 7, 2007 @ 9:37 pm
Thanks for the 2nd update, Nikki. Glad you could see past your own massive pro-writer agenda to fill in the details some. Even Bryan Lourd is telling the best deal you can get is something decent on new media, and drop the rest. But of course he’s a pro-studio dope, and I’m a paid shill for the AMPTP.
I understand the reason we love you writers is for your great imaginations that turn into great movies, tv, etc. But, for a few minutes, drop the bullshit “we’re going to bring down the evil corporations” nonsense movie you’ve got playing out in your heads. You’re not going to get everything you want, no matter how long you’re out…that’s not how business works. You can haggle a decent rate that’s lower than what you’re asking on new media and “concede” the rest to let them save face, and end the strike now…or you can wait until the DGA (who has a little more business savvy) makes their deal, and accept what they get, plus maybe a little bone thrown in.
Reality check time:
You’re not going to bring down a handful of multi-billion dollar corporations.
You’re not going to stop huge media conglomerates from buying more properties. These guys PAY HUGE MONEY to have the government look the other way. This isn’t Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, this is life.
You’re not getting Senate hearings into studio bookkeeping. You might get somewhere with a class action lawsuit, but you probably won’t get a lawyer good enough to win the case to be on your side.
You’re not getting jurisdiction over reality. That basically ensures that any time you want to strike, they’ve got no options, and that’s certainly not going to happen.
This isn’t about what’s right and wrong, despite what the screenplay in your head says. It’s about business and people like Bryan Lourd, who know business, are trying to tell you that this is your deal.
Comment by reality check — December 7, 2007 @ 9:42 pm
In other words, they want us to make membership in their union mandatory to work in this industry - even though thousands of people in reality and animation have already chosen not to join the WGA.
As an animation writer, I find this patently offensive. None of us have “chosen” not to join the WGA, we have been forced to join IATSE 839 because it offers sweeter deals to studios and networks, and thus becomes the union of choice for animation production.
Each and every one of us would rather be covered by a WGA contract, a contract which would give us residuals, better pay, and membership in a union that doesn’t view writers as an unnecessary evil.
Comment by A Working Animation Writer — December 7, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
To:
Seriously, take the reality and animation off the table. If they don’t want to be covered in the union, why even bring it up?
I think it’s time to start looking for a new line of work…
Comment by freelance worker bee
Hi Freelance Worker bee,
Are you kidding me? Why are you even commenting on this? I have held my tongue for many weeks - are you that ignorant? Do you REALLY think that we all passed on being part if the guild? Passed on health insurance, pension, protection? You, my, dear obviously are not in the business, or have a family trust, or are a cluleless idiot.
SERIOUSLY. I do think it’s the latter… Now why don’t you run off and post on your so passe Myspace page?
Yeah, go freelance - wash cars, walk dogs, unless you’re an IT person, well, I don’t see much hope for you.
Good Luck Freelance person.
Comment by Seven Year "Story Producer" — December 7, 2007 @ 9:57 pm
Hey, Horror Writers! Be proud! The AMPTP not only noticed your “exorcism” but was annoyed enough to mention it in their PR letter. Way to go, let’s keep annoying them until they stop playing games…
Comment by Writer fx — December 7, 2007 @ 9:58 pm
I was reading one post and nodding, nodding, nodding, and I got to the end and it was Gavin’s. I do hope it’s not Spring when WGA gets AMPTP return to the table; loss of ad revenue might speed the congloms up some. But the other points: Letterman, Jan. 7th? Possible. He won’t stay out forever, and there will be a trickle-effect. I do hope WGA increases minimums, it’s tangible and it’s now. Why reality tv is on the table is a head-scratcher. That’ll go first. The strike clause is good PR at the moment, but that too will go, too. DGA will negotiate next; they’ve been quiet during all this, that’ll change in late January. WGA will achieve some success in the end, but unlike everything we’ve ever learned about the journey, not the destination, being the reward — it’s the destination I’d most like to beam myself to now.
Comment by A Comment — December 7, 2007 @ 9:59 pm
Baffled Writer…good question. See our WGA leadership, who seems to be fumbling the ball, if you ask me, hasn’t done a good enough job explaining the economics. No, the revenue fairies don’t take the advertising money…the networks do. The networks then take a portion of the revenue and pay the producers a license fee for the program, which is much less than the producer actually spends on making that program. That’s called a deficit. The producer attempts to recoup some of that investment by selling the rights overseas (again paying the writer a residual), releasing a DVD (we all know, not enough, we’re working on that) and if and only if there are enough episodes then into syndication (again, paying us writers a residual). Asking our producers to get a share of the ad revenue that they currently don’t participate in already, shows the ignorance of our leadership. We need to take some of the emotion out of this and get back to work…fast.
Comment by Merate Writer — December 7, 2007 @ 10:02 pm
Just a guess, but if you want to talk to the main players with AMPTP, your best bet is to get a job as a ski lift operator in Aspen.
By next week, the other AMPTP folks left in town will be some lower level pot-stirrers and junior PR work jockeys to keep the flames flickering and pretend that someone is home.
Sadly, I think that Mr. Polone could well be on-the-money in regards to AMPTP dealing with the DGA and showing how “reasonable” AMPTP is at heart.
And I won’t be at all surprised to find out that AMPTP is back-dooring with the DGA while in Aspen, laying the groundwork for their “deal.”
But I beg to differ with Mr. Polone on net profits, at least to a degree (I use a new revised Magic 8 Ball v4.5). While the Networks will show profits in the short term, for the quarter and the year, independent financial analysts also look at the long term for their ratings and I think that is where things for the Networks and Media Empires stockholders get a lot more depressing – the ratings tanking, advertising rapidly shrinking – plus that $$$ (which doesn’t exist online according to them) moving to other venues (duh… ONLINE!). The bottom line has a way of racing at you in a hurry.
As to talk shows such as Letterman, as an example, returning, if that does happen, that is where the support of SAG comes into play. Without actors humping their projects, Letterman etc. will look like the old Smothers Brothers shows during the last strike. Lots of jugglers from Vegas and street acts from NY with Paul mugging for the camera and the band getting more stage time.
Thus far, the impact to films hasn’t been as immediate or visible, but that wave is building. Right now, the wave is off a Hawai’i, a mere bump in the vast Pacific, passing the view from some Mogul’s balcony… but it’s silently growing and heading right at Burbank, the real surf capital of California. And it’s gonna be one big mother.
And poor AMPTP… they hang their designer long boards on the wall of the rumpus room for decoration… where as writers’ boards are covered with sand, wax and dings and some duct tape. And they can ride short boards, long boards and bogey boards.
Pb, a body surfer
Comment by pb — December 7, 2007 @ 10:04 pm
Now I’m not saying I support either side, because frankly, I don’t.
But I understand and see the AMPTP’s thought process. They’re stalling and going to wait to negotiate with the DGA. That won’t last long. DGA is filled with powerful filmmakers, ie Steven Spielberg. When they have a deal with them, that becomes the precident for the SAG and WGA. The WGA ends up being the loser because they can’t get a better deal than the DGA. Because the more deals the AMPTP has to hand out, the more money they have to hand out. So I understand that they have to protect themselves.
Comment by Kev — December 7, 2007 @ 10:05 pm
When is the vote to see if animations writers want to be in the WGA? Thanks for offering that, AMPTP.
Comment by Klaatu — December 7, 2007 @ 10:06 pm
Dear “reality check”
Nice name. Hacky, but whatever.
Good post. Really, really big dose of reality, there. Because most of the writers believe we are going to “Bring down multi-billion dollar corporations.”
I am also hoping for a unicorn for Christmas. Are you going to tell me that isn’t going to happen? Seriously, where do you people come from? You really think you have just dropped a dose of reality on us? Yes, we have no grasp of the situation. None of us thought it out before we went on strike.
Here’s a tip: We were asked to take DVDs off the table early in the strike. We did. They did nothing. So, when Brian Lourde comes and tells us to drop everything and they will give us the same crap, guess what? We actually don’t go for it. For those of you who think this is bad negotiating on the part of David Young, you might want to take a look across the table at the guys who played a big hand way toooo early.
Comment by DA in LA — December 7, 2007 @ 10:16 pm
Oh, and if everyone thinks that the DGA taking a crappy deal will effect the WGA members demands, that is far from what I am getting on the picket lines.
All it will mean is that the DGA got hosed by their leadership - again.
Comment by DA in LA — December 7, 2007 @ 10:20 pm
I don’t know Gavin Polone. But I’ve read a lot of hate coming his way in postings on this site. Here’s the simple fact. He’s been right all along. The truth hurts. I firmly believe that the deal we will make later, is very close to the deal we could be making now. I hope I’m wrong. I hope Gavin Polone is wrong this one time. If we’re not wrong it’s a crying shame.
Comment by moderatewriter — December 7, 2007 @ 10:21 pm
Nikki - Thanks for filling in the details on Bryan Lourd. Can’t wait to see if he issues a statement or if he can put this all back together.
Comment by Concerned — December 7, 2007 @ 10:34 pm
Yes, moderatewriter, Gavin Polone has been right all along, but you have been mimicking what he says, so really, you are just saying you have been right all along.
Seriously though, a retard could have figured it out to this point. I know what was going to happen and I am totally behind my leadership. This will get ugly. Yes.
Force majeure next. Then the DGA makes a deal. Then guess what? The WGA and SAG are still unified and asking that their demands are met, regardless of the bad DGA deal. Holy crap!
Comment by DA in LA — December 7, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
>freelance worker bee wrote:
>Seriously, take the reality and animation off the >table. If they don’t want to be covered in the union, >why even bring it up?
Seriously, reality and animation writers are WRITERS. Just because you don’t do it doesn’t mean they should be ignored. It’s been on the table from the beginning of negotiations and it should stay. Something like 30% of all television shows are reality, game shows, or animation. Why deny those writers a fair deal? Why lose that leverage? Why are you so selfish? The time is now to insist on fair treatment and recognition for ALL writers. Just because THEY don’t think we should make that demand doesn’t mean we shouldn’t. Quit being afraid of them.
Comment by writer of many things — December 7, 2007 @ 10:46 pm
gavin,
it may well work out as you describe. but our strike is providing the DGA with the leverage it needs to make a much better deal than they would have otherwise. the amptp will be eager to show that they rewarded the compliant DGA over the militant WGA and SAG.
if they make a good deal, we’ll be happy to take it. who cares if this all turns out to have been a game of good cop/bad cop, as long as we get a good deal?
Comment by david — December 7, 2007 @ 11:29 pm
The AMPTP can’t even get out a good press release. You’d think they could find some good PR guys.
Comment by Kevin — December 7, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
This is probably just another drop in the ocean, but for the record - I work at a Big Five agency and we just closed our Story Department today. Assistants are being asked to read all material till the strike is over. Lots of midnight oil will be burning in the offices till this is over…
It’s pretty sad.
Comment by Agency Lackey — December 7, 2007 @ 11:41 pm
Having just spent the last five years fighting an Insurance Company, I really wouldn’t expect them to give in and pay the Studios for a situation where the Studios were not negotiating “in good faith.” Why do you all think differently? Are the Insurance Corporations that Stupid?
Comment by Dave — December 7, 2007 @ 11:48 pm
Fucking IATSE.
Comment by daryl t — December 8, 2007 @ 12:58 am
Gavin’s a smart guy, but he forgets that we don’t have to ratify any contract we don’t want.
Hold out. Fuck Gavin Polone.
Comment by How to get what we wantewd, — December 8, 2007 @ 1:02 am
Dave, “Force majeure” refers to the Studios using the strike as reason to not honor development deals they have made with writers. It does not, as your post seems to indicate you believe, mean that insurance companies pay Studios and Networks for lost profits during a strike. Just wanted to clear that up.
And for the poster above who thinks the WGA is being outrageous for asking for a piece of web ad revenue on streaming because you believe the AMPTP propaganda… come on! The AMPTP claims that the producers don’t get any money… the website owners do. REALLY?? Who are these lucky website owners and why have the shrewd producers allowed themselves to be so thoroughly taken by them. OH YEAH. THEY’RE THE SAME PEOPLE. Is anyone naive enough to think that nbc.com (which streams “The Office” with ads) is not part of the same company (NBC Universal, or UMS or Whatever They’re Calling it These Days) which produces The Office???
Comment by Joe — December 8, 2007 @ 1:32 am
Nikki calls Bryan Lourd an “objective” party. That’s probably true, and therefore shameful–because Lourd is paid to represent writers, something that he and the other fledgling potentates in the agency business seem to have forgotten in their headlong rush to become the next Lew Wasserman. It’s time that our agents–people whom WE employ, not the other way around–step up and support this guild, and I don’t mean pastry on the picket line. As for Gavin Polone, his smug needling of his betters never fails to amuse.
Comment by StickingWithMyUnion — December 8, 2007 @ 1:50 am
Do we really need the networks and multiconglomerates to create web-broadcasting? Let’s take up arms (meaning find a hedgefund) and start our own inter-net-work. The web is the wild west, let’s shoot-em-up, start our own networks and web distribution and cut them off at the pass on our own terms. They’ve got us thinking there’s no money on the web, no profits to share– let’s show them. The TV set is on it’s way out and no one owns the final frontier of the internet but those that can imagine it’s potential. Writers, Directors, Actors and Producers unite! The revolution is upon us! Imagine a new golden age of Hollywood….
Comment by Kristin Ellingson — December 8, 2007 @ 3:10 am
“If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there’d be peace.”
~ John Lennon
Comment by Amy — December 8, 2007 @ 4:31 am
DA–
You’re “dinner with a friend” thing made me laugh. Maybe you’d do better if as a writer if your fiction felt more real. Everyone knows I have no friends. And, if you are going to write untruths about me, you might want to give them a little more color. Go back and look at the other one, on another thread, about my driving someone up to a hill over the valley and telling them that I’d deliver for them and their not ever working again. That fiction had a certain visual appeal.
Do you ever take a break from your chest beating to wonder if, maybe, the negotiations could have gone another way? Does the AMPTP’s stonewalling and walking away from the table, possibly, make you think that they might be stronger and better insulated from the damage of the strike than the WGA leadership had led you to believe? Have you ever been in a negotiation where you had more leverage than the other side and, if so, did you take a tough position with the other side or walk away?
This is about money and, to a lesser extent, ego for the studios. 80 year-old billionaires don’t have much incentive to knuckle under. If the strike were hurting the studios, they would be, at least, a bit more conciliatory. This thing needed finesse and the WGA has used none. Sledge hammer tactics only work if you have the leverage. Maneuver is what you need when you don’t. But first, you have to analyze the leverage and your opponent. The WGA didn’t do that.
Go look at the history of David Young and the garment workers against Guess. You couldn’t come up with a more honorable fight. Poor under-paid manual laborers against rich, high-living, thugs from France. He tried to hammer them. It went on for a very long time. Guess moved their plants out of the country and increased their profits. The workers went jobless.
Comment by Gavin Polone — December 8, 2007 @ 4:35 am
Yes, it’s an ultimatum and yes, it’s a negotiating tactic which is having the desired effect: incurring feelings of outrage and infantile victimization from the WGA.
There is plenty of blame to go around here for both sides, the AMPTP for their bullying and union busting tactics and the WGA for their woefully inept and amateurish attempts at playing hardball. Much as it galls me to say so, Gavin Polone’s time line will probably turn out to be eerily prescient.
In the meantime, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year from all of your friends at the WGA Negotiating Committee and the firm of Redstone, Iger, Immelt, Stringer, Murdoch and Bewkes.
See you in 2008 for more of the same.
Comment by Pete Aronson — December 8, 2007 @ 5:26 am
The minute I heard the name Tom Short involved in anything with this strike my suspicions of past years was validated, especially with Mr. Short taking the sides of the producers.
That’s right, this is the same Tom Short who sold the IA down the river in it’s last two negotiations. I’m still wondering how much money Mr. Short made in sideletter kickback money for shoving it up our (the IA’s) arses since he’s been in office. Stand tall writers and we will stand with you! And to my IA bretheren, if and when you get a chance to get rid of Tom Short do so with as much speed as you can, and make sure you wash after to remove all the slime he exudes so to keep it off your loved ones.
Family Guy
Comment by IIA Apathy — December 8, 2007 @ 5:43 am
Nikki…
Thanks for not saying “Toldja”…
Comment by Iain'tte''in'... — December 8, 2007 @ 5:52 am
Polone,
you haven’t mentioned pilot season or the upfronts.
You know perfectly well that these potential disasters for the studios.
Why omit them from your analysis?
You’re offering spin, not impartial evaluation.
The studios can hold out until June, but only if they’re willing to lose lots of money. The bosses will be held responsible for their losses. A lot of them will be out on the street when this is all over. They will have multi million dollar severance packages to cushion their falls, but they are going down.
Comment by al smitty — December 8, 2007 @ 6:19 am
I think the Writer’s should have stuck to reaching a deal over New Media instead of trying to bring Reality and Animation to the table. At the same time, the AMPTP should give a better new media deal since the WGA did take DVDs off the table.
Comment by LEE — December 8, 2007 @ 6:20 am
Gavin Polone has been as right about the strike as he was about “My Super-Ex Girlfriend.”
Comment by Oh Puh-lease — December 8, 2007 @ 7:18 am
As a non industry observer I can honestly say that it’s quite obvious that the Amptp is to blame here. Why would you hire a top union busting PR firm right before you begin negotiations unless you were in need of spinning a story your way. Unfortunately they tried this 6 weeks too late. The sad fact of the matter is this, we a a general public are done with t.v. in it’s current form. The studio’s see this as do the investors and that’s why they put such large numbers on the future of internet and streaming in their statements to Wall St., the studio’s have burned the public with far too many 6 episode start ups. We are tired of paying to watch t.v. then sitting thru advertising. The business models of old are over. The real money is online, digital entertaiment on the web is the future and your union see’s that. I suggest that you spend some of your union’s coffered money and set up your own internet media outlet, set up some meeting in Silicon Valley away from Holywood and make some deals over this Holiday season. You can find many investors I’m sure, as they have often been known to throw 40 million at a concept already done by many others. The popint being this your product, i.e. your talent is already a proven commodity and while this strike continues other media outlets are getting itchy to take viewership away from the tradional outlets. And if you act now you will strengthen your cause with the networks and you can provide work to the many below the line workers who also are suffering. Step up as a whole and start to do something creative again this time in a differant medium. Who knows by talking directly with the internet moguls perhaps you’ll get a better deal than you ever had with the traditional outlets…
Comment by anubis2night — December 8, 2007 @ 7:36 am
WGA to AMPTP:
“Go fuck yourself.”
Comment by Writer — December 8, 2007 @ 8:07 am
StickingWithMyUnion,
re: Bryan Lourd
To make things worse, agents aren’t paid 10% of any of the money were talking about in this strike (residuals). They are paid profit points on shows they package though, and have an interest in keeping residual costs as low as possible.
Comment by Klaatu — December 8, 2007 @ 8:24 am
Sorry WGA but Polone is more than correct here. We need the DGA to step in now, salvage what they can, and negotiate a fair deal for the DGA which, surprise surprise, will be exactly similar to ‘88. Difference is you can then spend the next 20 years searching for a union NEGOTIATOR instead of an organizer who might be able to reason with the boy’s club called the amptp. Happy Christmas everyone!
Comment by DGAmember — December 8, 2007 @ 8:40 am
Brian Lourd thought the AMPTP offered “an improved, albeit slightly, streaming deal for theatricals”
Holy smokes!
As a feature writer, I happen to remember that the last offer for streaming one of my movies for an entire year was ZERO DOLLARS.
And now that offer of ZERO is “SLIGHTLY IMPROVED”!!
Sorry for the caps, but caps mean shouting, and I am shouting!
Sorry AMPTP, but, my work is worth far, far more than slightly improved from zero.
Comment by Slightly improved from ZERO! — December 8, 2007 @ 9:15 am
Regarding the WGA’s “slamming the door” in Nick Counter’s face, that must be a common reaction to Counter, given the look of his nose.
Comment by CM — December 8, 2007 @ 9:28 am
If the WGA wants to make waves and real money they need to hire the best lawyer they can find and let him or her (Gloria Allred maybe) file a huge class action suit against all the Companies. They have shown they are now operating as an illegal monopoly and the anti-trust laws come into effect here. Collusion and conspiracy are evident in that press release. There should be Congressional hearings as well. Henry Waxman represents the Fairfax district home of the Guild headquarters. Why isn’t the Waxman jumping on this bandwagon? Because he’s stupid. He needs to be woken up. This strike could bring down these enormous Conglomerates but only if the Guild takes it into the legal arena and to congress. They need to do this right now. Plan for a six month strike possibly longer and starting in January go to court and to capitol hill for testimony which would require the moguls to testify under oath. Then you’ll see some real profits.
Comment by Anonymous — December 8, 2007 @ 9:36 am
CNN briefly reported today that negotiations were halted by the writers refusal to take some proposals off the table.
Again - slanted reporting in favor of Big Media. Do you expect any less from a “Big Media” owned cable news channel?
Comment by Agent Provacateur — December 8, 2007 @ 9:46 am
A Note To My Fellow WGA Members:
The AMTPT’s ultimatum was clearly designed to make us angry. My advice is don’t get angry — it’s playing into their hands. Stay calm, stay level-headed, stay united. Clearly, they wanted this strike for two reasons: they are saving money in the short-term and they hope to break our union. Eventually, they will make a deal when the numbers make sense to them. And as hard as it is for us both financially and emotionally, we have to be patient. We have to remain a strong, indivisible union.
-Will S.
Comment by Will S. — December 8, 2007 @ 10:11 am
A.M.P.T.P. L.I.A.R.S.
Comment by Lewis — December 8, 2007 @ 11:06 am
bryan lourd is not neutral. bryan lourd is a self-inserted figurehead with no power over amptp.
lourd will try to coerce wga because it’s in his interest to do so - his agency makes its real money from packaging etc, not from writer residuals. and, his agency needs $$$.
stop acknowledging polone. he’s a pathetic nutjob who spends his nights obsessively trolling comment boards trying to provoke reactions because hatred is preferable to his accelerating obscurity.
Comment by fromtheinside — December 8, 2007 @ 11:17 am
I think everyone should stop stressing about the DGA taking a bad deal. They have as much at stake as the WGA and SAG. They’re watching what’s going on, and I don’t believe they would take what was on the table either 11/4 or 12/7. Show some respect for the DGA, and just maybe they can help you achieve the ultimate goal: a fair deal for all.
Comment by Scribefire — December 8, 2007 @ 11:43 am
al smitty–
Obviously, the studios don’t care about pilot season. If they did, they would offer more to the WGA, in hopes of saving it. They probably think they can make pilots anytime and feel confident with their reality programming.
Are you really so naive as to think that they have not analyzed the cost/benefit of a long strike and calculated the savings in the early months and put them against the deficits in the later months to model the different positions they could take in the negotiations and when and where they need to settle? They have big accounting firms and consultants up the ass who do that shit for them.
Anonymous–
The studios are allowed to bargain collectively with a union. This has been adjudicated in several lawsuits relating to pro sports. They are not allowed to collude to depress the prices of individuals, meaning Warner Bros. shouldn’t call Disney and discuss how much Akiva Goldsman should be paid. Actually, I have always thought there was clear collusion in the industry relating to how much individuals are paid by the studios. Don’t know why that has ever been tested. But it isn’t relevant to this WGA discussion.
And, you are also naive about the legislative branch and their getting involved to take on the studios for any reason. Go look at how much those studio heads, the studio PACs and their lobbyists give to both parties. Look at how the fyn-syn rules were demolished by studio political work. Look at how they’ve been able to expand the number of independent TV stations they own. No, the government won’t be getting involved in any of this. Some unions have real political clout but they have far more than 12,000 members and they lobby and contribute like crazy.
Even if congress did get involved and scheduled investigative hearings, the politicians would ask questions and grandstand but nothing would be accomplished. They’ve had hearings on indecency, nothing happened. Remember the Tobacco hearings? Take a look at Phillip Morris’ stock price and profits since those hearings. Yes, there was a financial settlement with the states with Big Tobacco but the cost of that was passed on to consumers. Phillip Morris made even more money and bought RJR: now they have a virtual monopoly. Dicky Scruggs got hundreds of millions in fees and went on to bribe a judge. People continue to smoke.
Comment by Gavin Polone — December 8, 2007 @ 11:47 am
To Klaatu (8:24 a.m.)–
You’re right, and that’s something frequently misunderstood: agents have little financial stake in the guild’s Pattern of Demands, and therefore scant financial incentive to help us, notwithstanding the inconvenient fact that we happen to be their clients. Let’s face it, they tend to sleep more comfortably with their noses firmly planted up the studios’ bum. Plus they tend as a class to be shitty dealmakers (ask around at the entertainment law firms), and this includes especially some of the agents who have desperately sought to be middlemen here. So tell me again why we’re supposed to think that agents hold the key to a resolution?
Comment by StickingWithMyUnion — December 8, 2007 @ 11:48 am
Take a look at this sad effort:
Sorry WGA but Polone is more than correct here. We need the DGA to step in now, salvage what they can, and negotiate a fair deal for the DGA which, surprise surprise, will be exactly similar to ‘88. Difference is you can then spend the next 20 years searching for a union NEGOTIATOR instead of an organizer who might be able to reason with the boy’s club called the amptp. Happy Christmas everyone!
Comment by DGAmember — December 8, 2007 @ 8:40 am
Turns out the new Clinton-trained AMPTP shills work weekends! Welcome boys. I see you are today pretending to be a DGA member, but can you imagine how big an asshole a dga member would have to be to, while their fellow creative colleagues are on strike, rub it in their noses that they won’t have money for Christmas? The DGA might frown at what we’re doing, but it’s only a small frown, because our beef is not with them. Like I’ve said before, this just shows the mistake the AMPTP has made in now bringing in flaks who have know experience in this industry.
Comment by WGAmember — December 8, 2007 @ 11:57 am
Yeah, Gavin, you didn’t have dinner with HF and tell him the writers should go on strike one week before we went out. Never happened.
You are a liar.
And EVERYTHING you have claimed would happen to date is so fucking obvious that I don’t know what to say. Who thought this would be resolved before January - at the earliest.
This is a long fight and we knew that going in. It is about taking away the product. Sure, some companies have a lot to fall back on. Others don’t. Some of those companies also don’t care enough to sit through and try to break a union - that would be why they have no representatives there. Some want it over now. Hence all the infighting.
And for Gavin Polone to bring up Young’s record is hilarious. Dude, you have such a hideous resume of crap it is astounding.
Comment by DA in LA — December 8, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
DA–
Who is HF? Harvey Fierstein? You’re mistaking me with someone else. I don’t think I know anyone with those initials. Where would you hear this, in the lunch room at whatever school you were substitute teaching at last week? Is this something you eavesdropped while clearing plates at a restaurant?
I am not a liar but you are a coward. Who are you anyway? It is really easy to say my resume is crap when you don’t identify who you are. Pathetic.
Comment by Gavin Polone — December 8, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
Mr. Polone –
Yes, the studios have accountants up the ass, but when did that make any difference? The movie industry lost 1.9 billion dollars last year, a big chunk of it in gross points given away to actors because… well, nobody knows, really. Let’s stop pretending that this is an industry that does things in a financially responsibly way. The studio heads don’t have any PLAN to deal with the WGA, they’re just fucking with us because it’s their nature.
But I couldn’t agree more that hiring this David Young guy was a huge mistake. Wow, he organized the garment industry! There’s just one little problem with that: the USA doesn’t HAVE a garment industry.
Comment by Jake — December 8, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
I love that Gavin is SO patronizing and above it, but must address every little post that disagrees with him.
The only thing it tells me about him, is that he is incredibly needy.
Dude, go get some hugs already. The strike isn’t about you, sorry to say.
Comment by girl scribe still walking — December 8, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
Apologies, Nikki, but haggling would be great if the WGA knew what they were haggling over. AMPTP provides no coherent information as to revenues on their side, so writers can only imagine what they’re bargaining for. And you know what happens when writers wander off into the land of imagination.
As an alternative, I propose, as part of the New Economic Partnership, the “Open Books” program. We, the WGA, have shown them ours; they should show us theirs. Now that the laughing has died away, the numbers, be it streaming, downloading, etc., are not unavailable because they can’t be counted — anybody remember that ancient technology Doubleclick? Google is almost ready to monitor your eye movements — it’s because AMPTP won’t reveal them.
The AMPTP says they’re “puzzled and disheartened” — why “puzzled?” Alternate dialogue for the end of CASABLANCA? Do they think this is a movie?
“Disheartened” makes sense. John Bowman says he does not want to be known as the guy who lost the internet. And the WGA membership should not allow it.
If the producers’ logic is that the “marketplace itself” should set the value, let’s see exactly what the marketplace is paying, down to, as is often the case with my residuals, the last .01 dollar, a very precise accounting whose accuracy I am required to take on faith.
Since there will never be access to production accounting, producers should not be “puzzled” if writers can only dream of what the numbers are. And we we should dream big numbers. BIG numbers. At least bigger numbers than are on the table. That way, when we lose, it’ll be by a smaller margin.
Comment by CM — December 8, 2007 @ 3:31 pm
Delenda est Carthago!
“The producer is not a necessary evil. He is unnecessary, and he’s an evil…In England, a producer is a man who stages a play;on Broadway, he’s the man who finances a play; in Hollywood, he is the man who interferes with a movie.” - Orson Wells
Comment by guiltriddenproducer — December 8, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
How many of these comments which say just work it out or go against the WGA are legitimate? I feel like you can’t trust the companies, if they’ve hired PR firms to manage their side, why not have them also write comments on all of the webpages dealing with the writer’s strike? Hold out writers, make them pay, because you all know that the internet and reality tv is where the money is, and so do the companies…why aren’t they even close to accepting any proposals? BC they’re cash cows.
Comment by Confused — December 8, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
WGA and Other Union Members:
I strongly suggest you ignore posts by Gavin Polone and others like him. While their views may be accurate, they only serve to demoralize us and diminish our cause. To quote the last person I ever thought I’d quote, let’s stay the course.
-Will S.
Comment by Will S. — December 8, 2007 @ 3:52 pm
Memo to Gavin Polone Re; Letterman’s return on Jan 7th 2008.
It was agreed upon that Letterman is a scab (see 1988 strike & 1979 Comedy Store Strike) But, after David had kid Ben and his quadruple bypass - the passing of Letterman’s and my friend a Comedian George Miller (February 17, 1950 - March 5, 2003 - He died on March 5, 2003, after a long bout with leukemia, from a blood clot in his brain) a kinder and gentler David Letterman has emerged.
Though David Letterman did cross the Comedy Store picket line in 1979 but he learned from our friend the George Miller.
In 1979 George Miller was among several comics who boycotted the Comedy Store in a labor dispute. Letterman, who by this time was guest-hosting the Tonight Show, kept performing there because he needed to try out material. George Miller showed up one night to watch his friend, but Mitzi Shore (owner of the Comedy Store in Hollywood) called the police and had him thrown out. “After Dave heard what had happened, he never worked another show there,” Miller told me years ago.
Jay Leno never crossed the Comedy Store picket line.
On the wonderful note and to break the Gavin Polone curse over his predictions that David Letterman will cross the picket line I will now start a plea drive directly to David Letterman to not go back to work until the Writers Guild of America West/East has settled its strike with the AMPTP. Do it Dave in the name good of the late comedian George Miller.
Everyone in the world tell David Letterman if you see him or know him personally (including you John Witherspoon Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang!) to do this one for the funny on purpose GEORGE!
SPREAD THE WORD –
Chris Jackson
Comment by Chris Jackson — December 8, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
Thanks to guiltriddenproducer for some mirth in the middle of the angst. It bears repeating as it’s the one absolute truth expressed here in regards to film… IMHO.
“The producer is not a necessary evil. He is unnecessary, and he’s an evil… In England, a producer is a man who stages a play; on Broadway, he’s the man who finances a play; in Hollywood, he is the man who interferes with a movie.” - Orson Wells
pb
Comment by pb — December 8, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
Gavin Palone writes: “Eventually, probably in the spring, the WGA and AMPTP will come back to the table … and the WGA will agree to the Internet formula already negotiated by the DGA. … Pretty much what could have been concluded now.”
Gavin -
The point of your prediction, as I understand it, is that the Guild is eventually going to cave and take a bad deal they could have gotten without a strike, so why strike?
Let’s play it out: In an alternate universe, the Guild agrees to the New Economic Proposal on November 3, 2007. A strike is averted. Life goes on as it should. Three years later, the AMPTP, having effectively wiped out residuals with its NEP, and properly convinced that the Guild will strike under no circumstances, demands massive rollbacks in health and pension.
My point is this: Your argument is well-taken, but it’s a Neville Chamberlain-esque rationale. However, the AMPTP has shown that it cannot be appeased. On October 30 (back in “our” reality now), the AMPTP said that the DVD residual formula was a “roadblock” to further negotiations. So the Guild took it off the table. What was the AMPTP’s response? On Friday, they listed six more “roadblocks.” Gee, I wonder what would happen if the Guild took THOSE off the table?
Best,
Marc Guggenheim
Comment by Marc Guggenheim — December 8, 2007 @ 5:59 pm
I’d like to hear more from agents and independent producers.
Comment by john Brownlow — December 8, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
This fan won’t be watching TV or going to a movie for QUITE some time….I support the WGA…
Oh…and DVD’s are now off my Christmas lists too….
Comment by Pete Fanning — December 8, 2007 @ 6:32 pm
I don’t think it can, but it’d be nice if animation writers were covered by WGA, though not reality TV writers. Big (obvious) distinction.
No, I’m not an animation writer, and frankly I only know a few — they’re hard-working, fun (in a brooding kind of way) and deserving of more.
Might a petition help? Someone in their union should start this now. How many animation writers are in the union? Get over fifty-percent of those signature (not easy, but you do have time) and submit them to the WGA.
Seriously. It’s nice to want something, but you’re in a rare position where you can actually get it.
Comment by A Comment — December 8, 2007 @ 6:33 pm
I’m a WGA writer. I think both parties are fortunate to have Bryan Lourd, and I believe both parties realize this — or he wouldn’t be in the room. He’s not always going to be right, and though he may appear to lean toward the AMPTP in these negotiations in some quotes, my guess is that he is very aware what’s at stake and is fair and balanced, and we should shut the hell up before he walks out. As DA’s 10:16pm post points out, this isn’t a fairy tale–reality is hard and bitter. When the WGA said no, we’re not dealing with ultimatums, Lourd didn’t walk out — the AMPTP did. Give credit where it’s due.
Comment by About Bryan Lourd — December 8, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
This is totally fucked. A perfect example of the growing animosity between the different ranks of Hollywood. We all work toward a similar goal, to entertain the masses and it’s sad that we can’t find some honest common ground on the future.
The AMPTP needs to realize exactly who it is insulting.
And if the WGA really wants a revolutionary deal thats going to give them security for years to come, understand that DVDs? Videos? Gone in ten years. What kind of leverage does rolling back your own DVD residuals buy you with regard to internet streaming. Time to start thinking 4th dimensionally.
Comment by MT — December 8, 2007 @ 6:59 pm
A word about Guess Jeans - Polone’s got it wrong and he should keep his nose out of the fashion industry.
My husband works at Guess, and the benefits are extraordinary. Inexpensive heathcare, free life insurance, dental, vision, dependent care. You name it. The benefits are better than the WGA’s.
So whatever Mr. Young did, and however long it took, he did something right.
Com