TUESDAY AM UPDATE: Just as I told you, here's the AMPTP's statement:
"SAG has indicated they need more time to prepare a response to AMPTP's final offer of June 30, 2008 and SAG will respond to the Producers' final offer at AMPTP's headquarters on Thursday, July 10, 2008 at 2 p.m. The Producers remain hopeful that SAG will accept our final offer."
I think it's likely that, whether or not the AFTRA membership ratifies the negotiated contract with the AMPTP or not, the Big Media companies are prepared to play hardball. I forsee a repeat of what happened during the lowest ebb of the writers strike: the AMPTP walks away from the talks and issues an ultimatum to SAG to take certain demands off the table. Whether this speeds up or slows down an eventual contract settlement remains to be seen.
TUESDAY NOON UPDATE: SAG just issued this statement:
Screen Actors Guild will present its response to the AMPTP’s June 30, 2008 proposal at 2:00 p.m. on Thursday, July 10, 2008 at AMPTP headquarters in Sherman Oaks, CA. The Screen Actors Guild national negotiating committee remains dedicated to achieving a fair TV/Theatrical contract for SAG members as soon as possible.The SAG national negotiating committee anticipates an equal effort and commitment by the employers and their representatives to achieve this goal.
MONDAY: "I'm told that SAG and the AMPTP are still exchanging info over that new "last best final" offer submitted by the Big Media companies. But let's not be coy: the Screen Actors Guild seems to be understandably playing for time until the results of the AFTRA contract ratification vote are announced. The counting should be done by Tuesday evening, and an announcement could come close behind or by the latest Wednesday morning. So everyone's watching and waiting for the results that could change the entire nature of these actor-employer negotiations. Stay tuned...
Nikke,
Few people care about the strike drama these days. The 3rd Act is already known, that SAG “leadership” will have to cave. The epilogue will be recrimination, another contested SAG election and all the nasty personal attack stuff.
SAG blew it, by not making the deal when there was a deal to be made. AFTRA has upstaged SAG.
Comment by Barry D. — July 7, 2008 @ 2:31 pm
Obviously SAG’s position is strenghtened greatly if there is a retraction of the AFTRA contract. But if it is approved, then doesn’t SAG have no option but to find a way to accept the last and best offer with a couple of inconsequential changes, claim victory and sign a new contract. If the AFTRA contract is approved, despite SAG’s campaign against it, AMPTP is not going to make significant concessions to SAG and SAG won’t be in a position to call a strike. So game’s over, isn’t it?
Comment by richard — July 7, 2008 @ 3:08 pm
And SAG unity is growing by the minute - http://www.SAG.org
Comment by Tim — July 7, 2008 @ 3:26 pm
A guy mows lawns for a living. He gets 10 bucks an hour.
One of his customers calls him up, says, “Listen, I’m moving to a new house. Let’s sign a 3 year contract- I’ll pay you 11 bucks an hour to mow the front lawn, and I’ll give 2 bucks an hour to mow the back lawn, cause it’s new. 11 bucks is a big raise for you!”
The guy drives over to the house in question, sees a normal sized front lawn, and a bunch of Caterpillar tractors in back, bulldozing 3 acres of ground to be fenced off.
If the guy says “No, I want the same money for the back yard that I get for the front,” is he being unreasonable? Is he on “de facto strike”? Or does he just not want to get conned?
SAG got conned on DVD and cable. We will not be conned again on New Media.
Comment by Anonymous — July 7, 2008 @ 5:58 pm
i say strike
no use in arguing over ‘clips’/film that will be ‘bit torrented’ faster than u can say piracy.
Comment by the lehman bros — July 7, 2008 @ 8:18 pm
Tim-
What are you smoking? 4000 have signed in solidarity. Are you aware that there are 144,000 in the union. Ill help you since you are mathematically challenged. Thats 2.8 %( i rounded up). You like 2.8%? Should I leave a 2.8% tip when you wait on me?
Comment by NotgoingtoTip — July 7, 2008 @ 8:23 pm
Tim
Your dreaming. All that stuff on the site is lip service
Comment by just a thought — July 7, 2008 @ 8:58 pm
I just do not understand how these actors can be members of a union and not support the leadership they elected. I do not understand how they can forgo the necessity of fighting for their longterm financial futures just out of fear of being out of work for a few months. (Yes,and I understand the losing your house, car, savings concerns…do you really think you are the only union members who have had those fears?) Seems as though they are “fair weather” members. The labor movement in this country sacrificed much more than a few weeks or months of salary in order to establish the fundamental rights of the worker. These “wanna be” union members just do not have the stomach for the fight. Why don’t they just vote to dismantle the unions they have created and just be “talent for hire”(day labor, temps)for the studios? That is basically the situation their lack of fortitude is creating anyway.
I support SAG in their efforts to get some balance in power struggle with the producers. However, with members who are afraid of a fight or a sacrifice, the battle was lost before it ever began. The AMPTP had your number actors. Too bad you are going to get what wished for: peace at any price. The question is:just how high a price are they going to make you pay?
My best to the negotiating committee!
Comment by member of another union — July 7, 2008 @ 9:01 pm
member of another union-
That sounds very noble and builds to a hackneyed emotional response cycle that was built on nothing but cliché’s. Very good you must write for TV. Don’t take us on an emotional journey only to find that, while distracted, we sacrificed logic and reason. This is not about the “FIGHT” and “PLIGHT” of unionists struggles. This is simply logic and reason. The members know what is now attainable and see the best way to end it. They are upset and question strategies.
You are a great cheerleader but you’ve missed the crux of the issue. There’s a time to be dramatic and a time to be insightful. The leadership of SAG is obviously in denial if it thinks it has any reasonable amount of support. Yet the drama of something trying to destroy itself is equally as compelling.
You saying good luck to the captain as his ship goes down. I understand. The ship is still going to go down.
Comment by notgoingtoTip — July 7, 2008 @ 9:37 pm
As I’m typing this, there are three published comments on this posting (7/7/08).
The AFTRA-ballot cover letter states that ballots must be received by the end of the day, July 8th.
The results could be published on Wednesday.
I’m going to hazard a guess, hedging with a very wide
point-spread: The “NO” vote will come in between 15% and 35%.
I don’t know the history of AFTRA ratification votes, but wouldn’t a 15% “NO” vote be close to a historic high? (I can’t remember a ratification vote of less than 90% “YES.”)
And I believe that a result that falls between 20% and 35% would send a “strong” to “very strong” signal that a large contingent of actors stands solidly behind their S.A.G. negotiators. A large contingent believes that S.A.G.’s contract proposals are fair and reasonable. Believes that S.A.G.’s contract proposals are worth mobilizing for.
If the AFTRA contract is ratified, the battle won’t be over.
(That’s about two cents worth of tea leaves.)
And, regardless of the result, the effort to defeat this too-little-too-late contract HAS been worthwhile.
Comment by Dave Clennon — July 7, 2008 @ 9:49 pm
member of another union You make the mistake of calling these unions in Hollywood unions. These are tickets to fame nothing more nothing less. Fame brings money. All these people want is the fame. The sad part the SAG board had their moment and can’t let go. So now we all get to feel their pain.
I have to give Verrone credit, the SAG board tried to insert their agenda, He decided to take the deal. SAG needs to take the deal. There’s no other after tommorow.
Pink slips are comming.
Comment by just a thought — July 7, 2008 @ 10:20 pm
Boy, the AMPTP trolls are out in force tonight, aren’t they? I say, Strike.
Comment by John — July 7, 2008 @ 11:08 pm
All of us bottom liners that feel the pinch of the bad economy, and still reeling from the last strike find little to support with the notion that a strike is emanate. Those of us behind the camera feel as I’m sure a good percentage of the nation feels: There is no sympathy for the actors. Most of the nation sees them as Glamorous Gods and do not understand the fact that there is a coexistence in a guild that represents Celebrities as well as Day Players. Tell your problems to the working Mom whose son was killed in Iraq. There is no time for this. Us bottom liners have made nothing but concessions during the past 20 years, and I have yet to see an actor who would support our issues.
Comment by Brian LeGrady — July 7, 2008 @ 11:14 pm
notgoingtoTip - Tip? Tip over because your so full of it…
SAG 120,000 Members. Over 4500 Members have signed the Statement of Solidarity in seven days and the numbers are growing by the minute. Should be around 10,000 by next week - and that’s just the Actors SAG has emails on. So let’s get out the word. Go to http://www.SAG.org and sign the Letter of Solidarity!
Comment by Tim — July 8, 2008 @ 12:28 am
Know who really should strike? Wal Mart employees. Now THEY’RE the ones who are really getting screwed, but, alas…no unions.
Comment by Adam — July 8, 2008 @ 1:57 am
@Comment by Anonymous — July 7, 2008 @ 5:58 pm
Actually your analogy does sound like the time to sign the deal you mentioned. If the lawn isn’t there (re: big money from internet revenue. F’ing Youtube is well into the red. If Google can’t monetize internet video what makes you think anyone else is monetizing ‘free’ internet video…well the non-porno variety?)
then the $2 you are getting to do the backyard are going to be a moot point since you can’t mow dirt.
Because let’s face it, by the time the grasss is growing in and it’s time to mow every week you will be up to renegotiate your contract again.
I know this is a tough concept for actors (jesus, we’re talking about people so incompetent they have to pay 25% of their salaries to 2 separate people just to keep their schedules straight) but it really is preferable to losing out on $10K from lost guest/co stars and their residuals by calling for a strike or holding out to the point of a lockout.
Comment by manny — July 8, 2008 @ 3:17 am
Dave Clennon,
We agree that AFTRA’s contract vote will be overwhelmingly “yes”.
Where we disagree is on the significance of the percentage of “no” votes. You suggest that 15-35% “no” vote wold send a strong message that they support SAG leadership. The only problem is that would still be a minority of voting actors (in either union). SAG would need the vote near 50% to have the support it needs to reject the current deal. Without those numbers they could never get a strike authorization and the membership has already spoken saying they accept the current deal on the table. (People with commonsense don’t go to battle with the support of the minority - although I will admit I havent seen much commonsense from SAG leadership so who knows what they are thinking they might think like you that 15% means they won)
So, please explain to me if the “no” vote comes in even as high as 35% (I doubt it) how exactly does that help SAG leadership? Please don’t be vague.
Comment by Anonymous — July 8, 2008 @ 5:33 am
<<<<>>>>
well said.
d
Comment by doc — July 8, 2008 @ 5:51 am
another thing to consider: viacom is involved with a suit against youtube right now for copyright infringement and the right to parse youtube user records. and they’re going to get it. the courts are increasingly leaning towards copyright protection. this threatens the whole business model of youtube, myspace, etc.
but, viacom and the other amptp participants, if this aftra deal passes, are chipping away at clip consent from actors.
translation: viacom sues youtube for stealing from them, then the amptp (viacom) watches as actors (via this shitty aftra deal) allow viacom to steal from actors.
smart move aftra deal enthusiasts. I have a cbs sit-com running on veoh, hulu, myspace and elsewhere, full episodes, ad supported. cbs has made its library available to these sites. money is changing hands as they look to exploit dormant libraries.
now, take that scenario, and couple it with the aftra deal, which is weak on clip consent. does anyone really think the precedents in this aftra deal aren’t the prelude to the eventual death of residuals? it’s already happening! I have a show running 24/7/365 on these sites, and not only am I not being paid a fair residual percentage off my work, I wasn’t even asked!
the thinking is so short sighted here among the aftra approval people. they’re (amptp) in the process of fleecing you, and you’re too dumb to understand it. once they get precedent, it’s over folks. all this “it’s the wrong time, the economy, let’s keep working, make the deal” babble misses the point: give aways NEVER come back. they are looking to set us up to marginalize actors in terms of a number of rights, first and foremost, residuals, which actors live on.
wake up actors.
Comment by dimi — July 8, 2008 @ 6:12 am
as i said: re, afta deal via hollywood reporter:
Still, some industry watchers view AFTRA’s clip consent agreement to be irrelevant.
“The actors don’t actually have any meaningful way to not consent because the negotiation takes place at the same time they’re hired,” Handel said. “If there’s a deal and the studio says ‘We want your consent’ and the actor says no, the studio can say: ‘Fine. We’ll hire someone else.’
“The actor has no leverage,” he added. “It’s a fig leaf put over the issue.”
Comment by dimi — July 8, 2008 @ 6:25 am
David Clennon, based on everything I’ve seen and heard, I think your numbers are likely in the neighborhood. It’s very possible that there will be at least 15 to 20% voting against the AFTRA contract. Assuming the total people actually voting is around 15,000, I could easily see it being as much as 10,000 for and 5,000 against. I don’t believe, though, that this would necessarily indicate that SAG could get the 75% approval for a strike. (My understanding of this is also that 75% would be considered a low number - ideally, any labor union would want over 90% in favor of going out, to show management that the intent was practically unanimous.)
John and Tim, I honestly don’t understand either of your statements. John may wish for a strike, but without the vote, no such action can take place. And the idea that nearly 4500 members out of 120,000 have signed a simple statement of support for a fair contract does not indicate that even those people are asking for a strike authorization vote. It just means that they support their negotiators’ efforts to get the best contract they can.
If the SAG leadership truly thought they could get a strike authorization, they would have held this vote over a month ago, as the WGA did back in October.
When we see the results of the AFTRA vote tonight or tomorrow, it is my hope that the endgame will come very quickly, and that the uncertainty currently gripping the town will come to an end. It will take some time to heal the wounds from the past year, and some fresh perspectives to find a better way to deal with these issues.
Comment by Kevin — July 8, 2008 @ 6:42 am
Tim-
I got the numbers from the linked website to SAG. Where did you get your number from? It says 4000 on the website. Also, what coefficient are you using to predict the trajectory of 10,000 by next week? Is that the coefficient of your ‘HOPE’ multiplied by 4,000? Or is it a poll you conducted? A poll you read? A poll you fantasized about?
I hope you don’t do you own taxes with those math skills. I do believe you probably helped Wesley Snipes with his.
Comment by NOtgoingtoTip — July 8, 2008 @ 6:53 am
Well Tim, my name isn’t on the Statement of Solidarity, and neither is the name of any of my fellow Sag Member friends. I’d be happy to sign a recall position for our illustrious leaders right now if the elections weren’t in September anyway.
Comment by BTL Mom — July 8, 2008 @ 7:28 am
tim-
Ok lets use your numbers. 4500 of 120,000 that’s 3.75%. How about your projections of 10,000, that still only 8.3%. When you get up to 75%(the amount needed for a strike authorization) you let me know. Thats 90,000. Only 86,500 to go.
Comment by notgoingtoTip — July 8, 2008 @ 7:31 am
Tim,
You said “Over 4,500 Members have signed the Statement of Solidarity…”
Well I took a look at the list, read every single name on that list and I recognized very few of those names. So, I sent the list to a friend who is a prominent film and TV casting director and she could only come up with a few names of people on that list that she had ever heard of or worked with.
So this list, is nothing more than a list of NON WORKING members. People that have nothing at stake.
Do you realize that these names mean nothing. N O T H I N G ?
I am a working middle class actor and since 1997, I have paid to SAG exactly $39,457 in dues. I am a working actor.
Working actors are what keeps this union running.
Working actors are the ones that get hurt when our union goes on strike.
Working actors have something at stake…not those on that list.
And Dave Clennon,
as a working actor, you should know better. You should be ashamed of yourself for your post. That is YOUR dues money that is being wasted. On what? Why would someone as smart as you fall for all this crap? AFTRA is not the enemy, no Dave, the enemy is all the non-working actors and the people that lead them.
Comment by LP — July 8, 2008 @ 7:32 am
During this economy and after the devastating WGA strike I cannot believe anybody supports a SAG strike.
It seems to me that you actors must be paid a hell of a lot more than the rest of us since you’re calling for yet another work stoppage. How blase are all of you as well as you mention the loss of our homes, education funds for our kids, savings to care for our parents etc. You just seem greedy. Most of us get paid once for our creative contributions to film and tv and do not have the sense of entitlement that you do. Can someone explain to me why we should care about you?
Comment by anon — July 8, 2008 @ 9:29 am
Dear Dave Clennon - maybe I’m missing something here, but whether or not the AFTRA contract is ratified by a few less percentage points or not…what on earth does this have to do with SAG? At some point you’re gonna have to stop the reindeer games, put on your big boy pants, and negotiate an actual contract with the AMPTP.
And Tim, your online petition means about as much as the percentage points in the AFTRA ratification. The petition could be at 100% and yet…someone at some point is gonna have to sit down and NEGOTIATE A CONTRACT.
ah wonder why y’all are puttin off the inevitable…
Comment by livin the dream — July 8, 2008 @ 9:57 am
Just seems to me that SAG’s strategy now makes it dependent on the AFTRA vote - if the AFTRA contract is rejected, they’re in great shape to get additional concessions from the producers. If the AFTRA contract is approved, they know they won’t get any concessions and that their only leverage will be a strike (which won’t be a popular decision; if it was, they would have got strike authorization by now) and they’ll have to eat crow and accept the AFTRA contract (with minimal, truly minimal concessions). I’m not at all sure this is where SAG wanted to be right now but it is where they find themselves.
Comment by richard — July 8, 2008 @ 10:41 am
First of all, I would like to say to the gentleman with the interesting story about mowing lawns: The Gardener does not continue to receive a ‘residual’ check for the mowing he did last week, let alone last year- so you analogy is highly inappropriate. To compare the ‘plight’ of actors with a guy who mows lawns, is truly insulting to the working family that barely makes above minimum wage. Shame on you.
Second, I know why everyone talks about solidarity being the only way to defeat the AMPTP- because THEY have it and WE don’t. Not just individually in our ‘own’ unions but together with each other- SAG, WGA, DGA, IATSE- unless everyone can get in one boat together against the big bad alliance no true advancements or equality can occur. The AMPTP, who are all by the way united out front - have complete unity to the world at large, they are unified in their goal, while our indivual unions can barely agree when they have general membership meetings.
I would be proud to stand next to a SAG, DGA or WGA member when they are striking in unity with IATSE.
Comment by Audra — July 8, 2008 @ 11:40 am
Welp, I had simpathy for the writers because they actually do something. Sure actors are vital to a show/movie/whatever but they are pretty expendable. They don’t have to be that creative, other than delivering their lines and it’s not like they’re curing cancer or anything. Writers actually have to use their minds to come up with a story. Directors have to make it work. Actors are just props. Glorified puppets if you will. Not that there aren’t some great actors. If you can bring in viewers/moviegoers/whatever to the audience, you deserve whatever you can get. Some actors are brilliant at what they do and should be compensated for it. Some just plain suck and don’t deserve to get the same as everyone else. It’s called a free market people! If you can’t make a living acting, perhaps you shouldn’t depend on it to do so…
Comment by worker bee — July 8, 2008 @ 11:44 am
Hello my little “worker bee” ………. you can put that down right over there. O.K. that’s all for now………. We will call you if we need anything else. ……….. Bye bye.
Comment by #44 — July 8, 2008 @ 12:09 pm
With respect to Dave Clennon, whom I greatly admire, I see the spin has begun. A 20-35% no vote on the AFTRA contract would somehow be a win for S.A.G.? How does an 80% yes vote (a clear vote against the S.A.G. campaign) translate into a victory? Hell, George McGovern got more votes than that against Nixon, lost every state save one, and left his party wandering in the wilderness for decades. S.A.G. may face a similar fate unless the members find a new direction this year.
Comment by Pat Skipper — July 8, 2008 @ 12:20 pm
hey worker bee, did you try to ask out the girl who had the lead in your high school play and she shot you down? I don’t think I’ve read a more boneheaded, inflamatory post on this site. I agree with you, there are many untalented actors out there who do suck - and quite a few of them are famous and make millions of dollars. To say that actors are “Props” or glorified puppets who contribute nothing to the creativity of a show or movie or play is insulting. If it’s so easy why don’t you go do it? Go try and perform a play in front of a live audience or make a comedy scene work on a sit-com or try to sell Allstate insurance in an entertaining way that engages an audience. I guess in your world every show would just have regular people in it - oh wait that’s “reality TV”. Enjoy all your episodes of “America’s Got Talent” and “Next Top Model”.
Oh yeah and one last thing. F*ck you.
Comment by insulted — July 8, 2008 @ 1:11 pm
Someone remind me to buy #44 a crane ride when this is all over
Comment by WhyWeWatch — July 8, 2008 @ 1:15 pm
not going to tip,
your comments are so tedious and rude
why can’t you make a point without ad hominem attacks? it takes away from any legitimacy you might have.
Comment by observer — July 8, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
I did not say that a 15% to 35% vote AGAINST the AFTRA contract would be a “win” for S.A.G.
I did NOT say that a 15% to 35% “NO” vote would translate into a 75% to 90% Strike Authorization vote.
(I wish the AMPTP’s anonymous trolls would read more carefully, or would not mis-represent the comments of others.)
A 15% to 35% “NO” vote — given the climate of FEAR surrounding the balloting — would mean that there is a large core of the acting community that is not ready to roll over and play dead for the studios and the networks.
The AFTRA leadership is not the enemy. They’re well-meaning people who made a serious mis-calculation, and got in WAY over their heads. The result is a bad contract and the perception that AFTRA is now the Company Union.
The WGA and a large contingent of S.A.G. members are standing up for themselves. That doesn’t translate into a strike. That translates into the BEGINNING of a resistance movement.
Comment by Dave Clennon — July 8, 2008 @ 1:46 pm
fiddlers await the burning of rome
Comment by mdo — July 8, 2008 @ 2:57 pm
Dave,
Though I sometimes find the undersides of bridges cool and comforting, I assure you that I’m neither a troll nor anonymous. I’m a S.A.G. member and I dissent.
Pat Skipper
Comment by Pat Skipper — July 8, 2008 @ 4:10 pm
Dear LP,
I hate to have to wake you up. Just because your prominent casting friend doesn’t know an Actor on the list - means nothing. There are many forms of working Actors in the Screen Actors Guild that are making a great living. i.e. Commercial Actors, Voice Over Actors, Stunt Performers, Background Actors, Stand Ins, Photo Doubles, Puppeteers, Singers, Dancers and the list goes on. And I’m sure many of these Actors are making a lot better living than you. And who are you anyways? And who’s this prominent casting director that doesn’t even know what SAG is made up of?
Support Your Union - http://www.sag.org
Comment by Scott — July 8, 2008 @ 4:57 pm
The WGA and a large contingent of S.A.G. members are standing up for themselves. That doesn’t translate into a strike. That translates into the BEGINNING of a resistance movement.
Darn you Dave. Now I have “Do You Hear The People Sing,” from Les Miz stuck in my head.
Comment by BTL Mom — July 8, 2008 @ 5:32 pm
Member of another union says: I just do not understand how these actors can be members of a union and not support the leadership they elected.
Answer: Because the majority of people on this site are not Actors - just AMPTP trolls pretending to be upset Actors that are mad at S.A.G.
All the Actors I know are supporting their union the SCREEN ACTORS GUILD. Sure they’re some that don’t, but the majority does. Who else in there right mind wouldn’t want the best deal possible. It’s called negotiations and that’s what we’re doing right - even if we’re not at the table it’s all part of the Art of it. We are getting kicked from every angle with no support from our BTL Brothers and Sisters, who are just playing into the AMPTP’s hands - creating all this fear.
Relax people - there will be no STRIKE!
You go S.A.G.
Comment by Steve — July 8, 2008 @ 6:35 pm
Scott,
Once AFTRA takes over and we kick out all of the dead weight, you and the rest of your extra buddies can start your own union and strike all you want.
Comment by LP — July 8, 2008 @ 6:36 pm
Scott-
You know, “LP” stands for line producer. You know the guy that helps decide if the show should be AFTRA or SAG. Keep going and lose TV forever Scott.
Let’s start crewing up those AFTRA shows.
Comment by notgoingtoTip — July 8, 2008 @ 7:23 pm
notgoingtoTip- Man you are green or just plain dumb. When was the last time a PRODUCER went to a his line-producer (hired hand) to decide which talent union his show would be cover under? Never happens. A Line-producer is brought in after the fact - he’s the nut and bolts guy, just working the numbers. The talent unions are being decided way before the line-producer is in the picture. Line-producers have no say over Talent or Unions!
You AMPTP Trolls - Educate yourself before blogging…
Comment by Scott — July 9, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
To Steve and all of the others who talk about “AMPTP” trolls on this site: grow up, shake yourself. The AMPTP has an astonishing amount of leverage. They don’t need to flood this site with differing opinions. If you actually worked on a movie or TV set, you’d know this town, after the fiasco that is SAG, is stridently anti-sag. But I guess I’m just a troll to you and yours. Your loss.
Comment by Scott — July 9, 2008 @ 2:43 pm