“Examples?”

Sure. Allen said “Unions don’t cause strikes….” That, of course, is pure bullshit. Unions are the only ones who cause strikes. Management causes lockouts. Now, clearly Allen was trying to deflect the truth and blame the producers, but couldn’t he have said something that was true instead of bullshit? Makes SAG look stupd and dishonest.

And I think Rosenberg has been itching for a strike ever since he got involved in SAG politics, giving signals about how actors had “special needs” and made ridiculous demands. SAG could have found a way to make a contract happen. I don’t think that’s what Rosenberg (and his mentor Bill Daniels) wanted. Read Rosenberg’s quotes. Ah, but you’ll find a way to avoid what you don’t like. I can anticipate your response already.

Daniels screwed SAG and now Rosenberg is going to do the same damned stupid thing. What arrogance! He calles others elitists yet he is the most elitist of them all! If you don’t like my verifiable and substantiable opinion, that’s your right… not that I care. I have always been allergic to closed minds like yours which is why I have no respect for you.

And you can make that stupid (and totally inaccurate) “studio troll” bullshit claim all you want and you can shove it up your dishonest ass. What you show me is that you’re a brain dead puppet who obediently buys the Rosenberg gospel hook, line and sinker. Should I call you a Rosenberg troll?

I just want to keep on being able to audition and work. Doesn’t look like that’s going to happen for a while, now. Way to go, Mr. Rosenberg. Bill Daniels is proud of you. And so is that actor among actors, Kent McCord. (Okay, now I can’t even say that one with a straight face.)

Okay, now on action, just drink the Kool Aid. Ready? And… Action! Drink it up. That’s right. Drink it all. Ready for take two? Cue more Kool Aid!

Examples?

Or is this just some of YOUR BS that everyone is supposed to cower and believe?

“Legitimate negotiating”??

Are you on the negotiating committee? Have you been sitting in on the negotiations? Unless you can answer “yes” to those two questions, your post is as much BS as you are accusing others of. You know NOTHING and yet imply that you know everything.

Or maybe you’re just a studio troll with a really unimaginative posting name…

They can no more cover any show they want than a plumber’s union can claim to take over electrical work.

The shows cannot go to either SAG or AFTRA. It’s a myth legally although perhaps the rules are not being followed.

Fact is AFTRA and SAG are NOT in competition anymore than a plumbers union is competing with a pilots union for workforce coverage. IF the rules are legally followed. What we may need to have happen is a court case that clearly draws those lines so we can get back to one union covering one worker type in one arena whichever union it may be.

And to all those who voted against SAG joining with AFTRA - do you now see that the result was much worse than the join?.

What I am is a SAG guy who would like some honesty and intelligence from the SAG leadsership. We’re not getting that now.

Some, like David Sobolov (and maybe yourself), will cling to the proscribed and approved party line ’till their/your dying breath. To that, I’d suggest your own words, “You really can’t win with these people.” I’ve learned that it does little good to try to open a mind so firmly and desperately closed. You’ve got all the excuses ready to go. At the same time, I’m not going to sit idly by while dishonest people like him (and you?) rant and rave as if they had a clue or spoke for actors in general. He doesn’t, and he doesn’t. Neither do you.

You already drank the Kool-Aid. My guess is that, given that Rosenberg sees that his bullshit and bluster has not impressed the studios, and knows that he does not enjoy universal support even among SAG members, will finally get down to some legitimate negotiating. Either that, or SAG is effectively gutted and AFTRA will take more and more prime time scripted episodics.

Then who will you blame?

More Kool-Aid?

You must realize that it is not simply a matter of “winning”. I voted for Alan. I voted for Allen. I have been betrayed by them both.

There have been others that declared anything by Pisano/ Gilbert as results from hell.

You couldn’t win with them.

There is no “Aftra-First ” crowd. Doesn’t exist.

Posts like this are just laughable. SAG (nor Alan Rosenberg) can’t win with these people. No matter WHAT happens, they’ll blast SAG. If SAG holds out for a GOOD deal, they’ll moan and cry that SAG is a militant, strike-happy union. If SAG ends up settling for a modest or mediocre deal, they’ll gloat that SAG has “gained little or nothing.”

You really can’t win with these people.

Anyone with half a brain can see that this isn’t about contracts or deals or negotiations. This is about bitter PARTISAN politics - people who are “really really mad that we didn’t get elected and we’re going to stamp our feet and call the current leadership names and waaa! waaa! waaa!!!!!”

It’s just like the Republicans and the Democrats.

There is NOTHING that Alan Rosenberg and SAG could do that would satisfy the AFTRA-First crowd. Nothing at all.

That’s why SAG needs to ignore them and continue to do what it is supposed to do, which is seek out the best deal possible.

To notice that SAG is self destructing is not to be either anti-SAG nor part of any made up “AFTRA Propaganda Ministry” as you dishonestly claim. It would be far easier to substantiate the idea that you are nothing more than a mouthpiece for “SAG Propaganda Ministry.”

Since 95% of my work is under SAG contracts, I am not a blind AFTRA disciple so any claim of yours to the contrary is, of course, bullshit… as is so much of the approved SAG Propaganda Ministry rhetoric you spout. The fact is that I am a HUGE supporter of SAG, SAG actors, and damned proud of my decades long membership. And I resent the fact that the current administrations seem hell bent on SAG’s destruction, even more so than Bill Daniels’ disastrous administration!

My guess is that Rosenberg (not being a stupid man) is going to scramble to try and salvage something from the current talks (and thus save SAG’s existence) and claim victory even when he gains little or nothing. And I think the producers, knowing how little power SAG now has without AFTRA as a negotiating partner, will let him play out his little drama. It is in their best interest to let Rosenberg have his 15 seconds of SAG fame until a more reasonable administration takes the union back for the members.

Clearly SAG is not working with or for its members when it is an incontrivertible fact that Rosenberg has rejected the advice of star actors not to push for a strike (didn’t he tell them to “butt out”?), and rejected as “elitist” the very actors who actually manage to get work in this insane business, i.e., the SAG elite. Personally I’m proud to be among the elite. I’ve earned it.

Since your honesty is clearly questionable (which renders you not worthy of trust), you show my decision to stay anonymous to be a reasonable one.

David, I wouldn’t “dis” your “experience” for the world. Please let me know how you think I have.

I know what you mean about the IMDB, though. There are over a half-dozen major TV credits of mine that aren’t up there. Tant pis.

Then, David - you, Doug, Alan, and membershipfirst have been doing the AMPTP’s work for them for the past year.

The AFTRA propaganda ministry folks use buzz-words and phrases meant to belittle when describing SAG leadership and anyone who is pro-SAG like “learned at the feet” and “jackboots” and “cabal” It’s just hilarious 1950’s era McCarthy-esque language meant to discount the authority of the person posting the information. But it’s much easier to throw stones than to add anything of substance, so I understand.

AMPTP loves loves loves having two actors unions to play against each other. And Chris Grove is dead-on. Corporations only give people money because they have to and with two actors unions, they can divide and conquer ’till the cows come home as long as AFTRA stays in the game making their own discounted deals.

AFTRA is terrified of its membership - thus the tone of the posts by the AFTRA supporters here. It’s angry and it’s defensive. SAG tries to work for and work with performers and protects its members rather than protect ITSELF.

I’ve made a living working on camera principal roles under SAG, AFTRA, and AEA contracts for forty-five years.

Most of what I’ve read from your side of the fence is fiction - an organized, purposeful campaign for over a year to attack AFTRA. I’ve read every contract I’ve worked - be it SAG, AFTRA or Equity. No one has kept me from seeing them. I’ve had input - on a union level - on nearly every contract I’ve worked.

How dare you put yourself up to speak for middle-class performers? You haven’t the experience to be able to do such a thing. I wouldn’t even put myself up to such a thing.

If you don’t like AFTRA contracts, don’t work them. There are contracts in SAG, AFTRA, and Equity that I choose not to work.

AFTRA has had contracts for “scripted entertainment” since before you were born.

Your anti-AFTRA rhetoric stinks of the membershipfirst talking points you have learned at the feet of the present SAG Hollywood “leadership” meeings.