Next SAG-AMPTP Deadline Is July 26th! SAG Presented Counter-Proposal Today; Will AMPTP Negotiate Or Just Walk Away?

48 Comments »

1. I will be heartbroken……… if I don’t ride the crane.

   Comment by #44 — July 10, 2008 @ 7:45 pm

2. This looks like some masterful strategizing and game-playing by the AMPTP. I applaud them for that. SAG’s contract talks, under that Rosenberg buffoon, has been abysmal and embarrassing. SAG should accept the offer. It’s still an increase. At a time when the economy is at near-depression levels and entertainment company stocks are tanking and other Americans are losing their jobs daily in the tens of thousands, it sure is strange that SAG is going to cost them and everyone else such grief. It’s not like “Big Entertainment” is “Big Oil.” If we were fighting Exxon/Mobil or Halliburton I’d be on SAG’s side. The should accept the damn offer and come up with a better, more unified strategy for the next round of talks. Enough already.

   Comment by Pie Bosco — July 10, 2008 @ 7:52 pm

3. SAG=screwed.

   The Allens=guilty.

   Actors=paying the price for Membership First’s stupidity.

   It’s time for them to go.

   Comment by The Obvious — July 10, 2008 @ 7:53 pm

4. Put it to a vote. It’s the only thing left.

   Comment by just a thought — July 10, 2008 @ 7:57 pm

5. Rosenberg needs to nut up, recognize that he’s not going to “win”, take the contract and exit stage left. Quietly. WGA negotiated the actor’s contract already.

   Comment by Topher Long — July 10, 2008 @ 8:01 pm

6. It’s summer, babe. Ain’t nothing going interfere with some studio exec’s summer vacation plans. Especially something as trivia as a SAG negotiations can’t delay that planned trip to southern France or that escape to Bali. Can you imagine the hell a studio head would have if they had to cancel a family getaway? No mere actor is going to ruin those plans.

   Besides, there’s always those low paid AFTRA actors to fill in the gaps (you know the ones: Hanks, et al who pushed so hard for AFTRA and forgot everybody in SAG and how they were important to their career.) But, hey, they’re on vacation too, so what the fuck, let’s forget about these negotiations and let’s have some summer fun!

   Comment by Hank Hollyweird — July 10, 2008 @ 8:07 pm

7. Regardless of how one feels about either side in this standoff, why are more journalists not calling the AMPTP on the erroneous use of the term “de facto strike?” A de facto strike would mean union members choosing not to show up for scheduled work without an official strike declaration.

   Companies electing not to proceed with scheduled productions without a new labor contract represents a de facto LOCKOUT.

   Comment by DLW — July 10, 2008 @ 8:08 pm

8. Well, thank goodness we didn’t play into their hands the entire way.

   Comment by Jenius — July 10, 2008 @ 8:09 pm

9. Per the AMPTP: “SAG’s Membership First contingent unreasonably expects to obtain more in these negotiations than directors, writers and other actors obtained during their negotiations.”

   Well, I’m not “Membership First,” and I too expect more than “directors, writers and other actors” settled for in their negotiations. It isn’t enough and it never was. The contract gruel that was choked down by all the other guilds, that’s what’s unreasonable.

   We simply wouldn’t be here today if the DGA hadn’t taken cuts in line and negotiated a dog-shit contract which was then rubber-stamped in turn by every group of pussies that followed. Damn their eyes.

   Comment by Bye-Bye Residuals — July 10, 2008 @ 8:32 pm

10. If they are all separate unions with different needs, and they all negotiated separately, why are they trying to make everyone take the same deal. In that, I mean jamming it down their throats.

    Comment by summer — July 10, 2008 @ 8:57 pm

11. SAG moved closer on some economic issues, New Media issues, and some other bargaining issues not previously addressed.

    And the AMPTP did not?

    Comment by RayRay — July 10, 2008 @ 9:03 pm

12. Hey guys! I gotta great idea! Let’s blame the DGA! Let’s blame AFTRA! Let’s blame the WGA! Let’s blame the AMPTP! It’s simply not our fault.

    Comment by scott — July 10, 2008 @ 9:43 pm

13. I look forward to seeing next week my union (SAG) send me that AMPTP/SAG agreement so that I as a member in good standing can vote on it.

    Trust me, if you are a good cold reader and have a decent agent you will be a working actor again in Hollywood.

    Remember, if your type isn’t in demand then be the number one thug, pimp, mafia don, rapist on the central casting roaster… oh, yes and have plenty of wardrobe changes ready.

    Rosenberg, my brother from another mother - please just swallow - gulp or slug it down - it’s taste better if you do it faster than prolong the inevitable -

    It’s time to get back to work. WE all have dreams to put on film — don’t stop the love…

    Comment by Chris Jackson — July 10, 2008 @ 10:07 pm

14. WOW…the AMPTP shills are out in fierce numbers tonight! Must be a full moon! Creepy!

    Comment by I SEE YOU — July 10, 2008 @ 10:21 pm

15. I propose, with a fair amount of certainty, that one thing we would all agree on, (including Roberta and Alan apparently), is that it seems utterly ridiculous and nonsensical to have one class of labor, namely “PERFORMERS”, covered by multiple guilds. Of course, different types of performances should be covered under different contracts, but PERFORMERS as a whole should be under one guild umbrella. Not only does this make rational sense, it would increse the leverage that the “single guild of greater numbers” would have during the bargaining process. In addition, the fighting and bitterness that has arisen is a direct by-product of having two separate guilds covering the same class of labor - this type of situation is a natural breeding ground for bickering, battling for jurisdiction (even at the detriment of the constituency) and division. Going forward, we need ONE guild, with ONE elected board, negotiating ONE contract for each type of performer, that way there cannot be two boards who waste more time spiting each other than they do representing their constituency.

    *** LETS EXACT CHANGE ***
    LETS ORGANIZE OUR EFFORTS
    LETS START A MOVEMENT NOW, TO EVENTUALLY REMOVE THESE TWO BOARDS, MERGE THESE TWO GUILDS INTO ONE, AND HOLD AN ELECTION PROCESS TO RE-ELECT A NEW BOARD WHICH WILL REPRESENT ALL PERFORMERS, AND HAVE “A” GUILD WE CAN BE PROUD OF.

    IF WE START NOW - WE CAN MAKE THIS HAPPEN BEFORE THE NEXT NEGOTIATION COMES UP IN 3 YEARS, AND REALLY BE IN A PLACE TO COMMENCE A RATIONAL BARGAINING PROCESS THAT WILL BE ENTIRELY FOCUSED ON NEGOTIATING CONTRACTS THAT PROTECT THE WAGES AND WORKING CONDITIONS OF PERFORMERS, RATHER THAN BEING FOCUSED ON WHICH UNION DID WHAT TO THE OTHER, AND WHICH IS BETTER. THE BARGAINING PROCESS ***SHOULD*** BE ABOUT GETTING THE BEST CONTRACT FOR PERFORMERS, RATHER THAN BEING ABOUT WHICH GUILD CAN CUT A DEAL FIRST IN A RACE TO GAIN JURISDICTION FROM THE OTHER GUILD.

    DIVIDED, WE ARE INDEED FALLING.

    I really believe the root of all of these problems is that we have TWO guilds representing really ONE class of laborers - performers. Remove this problem, and 2011’s bargaining will be between ***THE*** performers guild and producers, NOT between TWO separate performers guilds battling each other while producers effortlessly win in the end.

    By the way, I agree that we don’t want to price ourselves out of a job, but if media conglom profits and CEO compensation packages are any indication, I don’t think they are hurting all that bad.

    All efforts have to start somewhere. ANYONE interested in potentially helping in the beginning ground level efforts to organize a process by which we can get this effort off the ground and taking shape, please email us at info@PerformersUnited.org. You’ll be notified as things progress and as efforts are organized.

    Lets stop arguing about what isn’t working, and instead bring about change to build something that ***WILL*** work.

    Best,

    Chris

    Comment by Chris - Performers United — July 10, 2008 @ 10:32 pm

16. Scott, what’s your point? We’re being asked to accept unacceptable contract terms on the basis that they were good enough for the other guilds. Had the WGA not given up on DVDs, or the DGA negotiated a shorter reuse window, or had AFTRA not broken off to negotiate its contract separately, we would not still today be trying to negotiate up the threadbare hand-me-down of a crappy offer we got.

    If you’re suggesting that the actions of the other guilds had no bearing on our contract remaining unsettled at this late date, you’re wrong.

    Comment by Bye-Bye Residuals — July 10, 2008 @ 10:44 pm

17. Let me put it this way: with SAG meeting next on the 24th, the Friday of Comic-Con in San Diego, any negative outcome that affects the panels at Comic-Con is going to hurt the studios whether there’s a strike or a lockout.

    Us fangeeks aren’t stupid. Whether or not the contract dispute gets settled by then, word will get around the con that it’s the Studios treating the actors the same as they treated the writers.

    Let the studios think that Comic-Con doesn’t mean anything for their prospects for, especially, television shows. If actors don’t show up for any reason other than getting stuck on the 405 (this means you, Kevin Smith), we already know why and the word will spread like a flashfire. Except without all the physically burn-y damage stuff.

    — Rob

    Comment by Rob (ShutUpRob) — July 10, 2008 @ 10:47 pm

18. The grand majority of SAG members get their income from non-acting work. Since they have other income to support them, they’ll vote to authorize a strike with little hesitation, if they feel a bad deal is being shoved down their throats. The current deal would qualify.

    If the AMPTP is smart, they won’t give SAG’s leadership a reason to ask for a strike authorization vote. It will light a fire that will extremely difficult to put out. And what small increases SAG is asking for will be nothing compared to what the studios and their shareholders will lose.

    Comment by George Glass — July 10, 2008 @ 11:09 pm

19. The blame here is all about self importance. My guild is better than your guild. You know what the WGA beef is really with the DGA is, when a film is made and the credits are rolled it’s a film by whoever the director was. That’s the truth of the matter ask any writer.
    Allen is not a stutterer. He suffers from ADD and when pissed off the thoughts come faster than the mouth can say. I suffer from it and I have empathy.
    What I did see was David Allen unshaven going to a negotiation, how shabby. Even I know to shave before I try to make a deal.
    Allen is surrounded by sociopaths that made him believe that he could make a difference.
    When the man holds the cards and we are slaves to the cards, all you can say is can I have a little bit more. Copperfield I think.

    Comment by just a thought — July 10, 2008 @ 11:29 pm

20. Look. SAG had its chance back in the fall and they blew it. As did the WGA. The WGA’s move to strike was the most foolish, myopic thing they could have possibly done. Why? Because that’s exactly what the AMPTP wanted.

    Ask yourself: what would have happened had the WGA worked on their expired contract, shown some patience, and then went on strike simultaneously with SAG at the end of June? And if they’d gotten together with the DGA as well? And AFTRA? That was precisely what the AMPTP did not want. So they shoved the most insulting offer they could possibly keep a straight face with across the table and the WGA took the bait. Cooler heads did not prevail and the strike happened. It was a brilliant strategy by the studios, thus mitigating the financial damage they had to endure in contractual concessions to each union.

    SAG members: what’s done is done. It sucks, I know, but it’s time to cut your losses and move on. The key will be to organize in three years, upon the looming expiration of the new contracts. Secretly approach the WGA, the DGA and maybe even AFTRA if you and they have leaders who can sustain a civil conversation with each other. Talk to them, discuss a radical plan — exercising patience and, rather than allowing your own creative (but nowhere near business savvy) leaders to negotiate for you, have the unions pool their resources to hire professionals. Professional negotiators. Because the people sitting across the table at the AMPTP do this for a living. They’re highly skilled at screwing people over for the sake of corporate profits. And while your leaders have grandstanded away all your political leverage over the past few months, the AMPTP has won this battle.

    There is nothing left to gain by going on strike. Nothing. Because no matter how committed you are, no matter how determined, you simply cannot outlast the studios’ financial reserves and their capacity to endure a strike. And in the end, once you finally demand that your leaders go back to the AMPTP and just take the damn offer because you can’t afford to buy food, you’ll have accomplished nothing but the disruption and destruction of lives (as the WGA did to this city) and public opinion will be turned against you.

    I plead with you — don’t allow another strike to happen. We’ve all just been through a living hell thanks to the WGA’s lack of impulse control and foresight. The city’s economy is already on its knees thanks to the recession (and the fallout of the WGA strike).

    We simply cannot afford another strike.

    There is no honor in forcing others to suffer just to prove a point. But there is honor in learning from our mistakes and living to fight another day.

    Comment by anonymous — July 11, 2008 @ 12:06 am

21. Alan Rosenberg:

    I’ve never met you, but as a WGA member I had the pleasure of hearing you speak at several of our events, and I shared the common reaction that you were far more nuanced in your thinking, and trustworthy in your commitments, than the WGA’s own leaders (if that isn’t damning you with faint praise). Please stand firm. SAG needs to strike, and not return until there is significant movement on DVDs and all the other stuff that the Neville Chamberlains of my own guild–the Verrones and Bowmans and Youngs–so blithely gave away. A SAG strike will be punishing for me, and for so many of us. But it will bring brighter days for sure, and nothing else will.

    Comment by StickingWithMyUnion — July 11, 2008 @ 12:20 am

22. The only people that are getting screwed here are the hardworking below the line people, you remember them right? Those technicians, teamsters, camera people. In this day in age in the economy we are suffering when there is no work available.

    Comment by Unemployed Technician — July 11, 2008 @ 12:35 am

23. @Comment by DLW — July 10, 2008 @ 8:08 pm

    Probably the same reason political grandstanding and ‘buzzwords’ aren’t ever called out by the media: they sound good.

    @Comment by I SEE YOU — July 10, 2008 @ 10:21 pm

    last lament of the lost. this site is RIFE with UNION shills (the blog author included) but nothing wrong with that I guess right? When was the last time SAG was challenged on this site? You won’t find it.
    I have nothing to do with AMPTP, if I did I’d probably have an assistant to type these comments for me, I work in talent rep and I just happen to think SAG is being utterly stupid (same as I though the WGA was being moronic)
    Risking losing $15k+ in lost wages over a contract that expires in 3 f’ing years is just beyond dumb. It can’t even be fully fathomed how dumb of a strategy that is.

    Comment by manny — July 11, 2008 @ 3:46 am

24. Well SAG needs to get over themselves real quick, and take the deal. Try again in three years. All the other guilds are taking the deal, in the end this will make SAG look greedy…

    SAG is not the holier than thou Union they think they are. They are bullies, mean spirited and negative. They are hurting the entire industry at this point, just because they don’t take the deal.

    Not accepting the deal makes them look bad in the eyes of the public, well those that are smart enough to know better.

    Granted the studios aren’t nice either, but the ball was in SAG’s court they could have ended it today. But no they wanted to continue their fight just so they can say were the bigger better union.

    Stupid idiots!

    *shakes head in shame*

    Comment by Enough — July 11, 2008 @ 6:21 am

25. CONTRACT NEWS OF THE FUTURE

    DEADLINE-HOLLYWOOD-GHOST-TOWN

    24 JULY 2017

    In yet another advance for creatives planet-wide, after years of ‘New Media’ study, the AMPTP announced their last, best, final ultimatum to the Creatives Guilds Alliance. The CGA, composed of reps from the WGA, SAG, IASTE, DGA and AFTRA, were gifted at the confab with a 55 gallon drum of Kentucky jelly, to be liberally shared among the members.

    With the contract due to run out on 31 July 2017, AMPTP spokesdevil Santa Spawn commented, “This is a back-breaking opportunity for these unworthy creatives. In the darkness of our hearts we have decided to give up our claims on all of their children, only demanding their first-born. Further, we will now increase their already bountiful rations to include bread with the recycled sewer water we now provide them.

    Asked for comments, at their idyllic island retreat on Alcatraz, a lone dissenter demanded to ask a question. He was immediately shot and run through the Ferti-Loamer machine.

    When questioned, Santa Spawn admitted the incident, “It’s sad, but we must keep the creatives isolated from society, rather than chance that they infect the loyal, orderly, working drones. After all, once they reach 27, 28 years old, they’re over the hill and really only good for plant food. A bit acidic though, I might add.”

    A creatives bystander shook his head and remarked, “He knew better, they told us they would review the New Media provisions back in 2008. Don’t people realize this stuff takes time?”

    Santa Spawn smiled and slapped him on the back, “Sheeply, you’re great! We’re still working on that DVD formula from back in the ‘80s and hope to have it figured out by the next contract.”

    Rumors that Santa Spawn danced off singing “My North Pole Is Gonna Be In Your South Hole” could not be confirmed.

    Comment by Tom Segerson — July 11, 2008 @ 6:35 am

26. The AMPTP doesn’t have to do anything.

    They’re the fat-cat with a big parent company to keep them in kibble, so why even bother opening the mail from SAG.

    SAG will have to take this deal, then get some new leadership who realize that they’re in a business, not a social revolution, ditch the stands based on “ideological purity” and start preparing now for 2011’s negotiations. Negotiations are a form of warfare, and to win you need to prepare, prepare, prepare.

    Because if you don’t AFTRA will be the last union standing.

    Comment by Furious D — July 11, 2008 @ 7:28 am

27. Ok good for Allen, he went in and asked for a better contract and the AMPTP said no again. What did it prove? It proves that he keeps doing the same thing and expecting different results. The very definition of stupidity. He has no new leverage, no new strategy, no new negotiators but he keeps charging at windmills. A tragedy in Quixotic terms. If this were a movie, by the end of the 2nd act he would have come up with a new plan, reinvented himself, struggled to overcome his antagonist and proven himself victorious in the 3rd act. Allen this is not a movie!!! You are not an actor playing a role-this is real!

    July 24th, at the meeting, lets get a quorum together to impeach the Me Firsters. It takes 3 people at the meeting to make the motion. One to propose it and 2 to second and third the motion. Then the room votes. All that is needed in the room is a simple majority. 50.1% Once that is done ballots go out.

    Are there enough people that are fed up with the Me Firsters? Are you sick of the money wasted on diversionary tactics? The late and expensive hiring of a PR Firm? The ineptitude of a leader who clearly knows he’s in over his head, but rather than say, “he lets get some professionals in here!”, he says,”I don’t want to give away any of my lines, I’ll do it myself”. That’s the kind of ego that sacrifices logic at the expense the membership. Don’t we need leadership that can be honest and self aware? We need a president that can be insightful and say, “I am a good president at running the day to day, but as far as negotiating, I recognize that for the good of the members we should get a professional.” It’s done in every single business in the world, yet for some reason that kind of logic and precedence doesn’t make a dent in the thick wall of Alan’s huge ego.

    Make July 24th a referendum for the membership, not for the Me Firsters. Who has the balls to make democracy work for the members and not for the failed leadership?

    Lets organize the recall.

    Chris-Performers United- Are you in? You’ve already got a website and email headed in that direction. Can you lead this? Will you stand up and present the motion? Who will second and third Chris?

    Comment by coup De Tet! — July 11, 2008 @ 7:29 am

28. How many of you SAG-bashers have actually studied the offered terms? Did you know they want to pay actors $25 for a YEAR’S use of an episode on the Internet?

    Is anyone actually saying that SAG should take that “deal”??

    Are you insane?

    Of course, that’s only if the episode plays after the 17-day FREE window that the AMPTP wants.

    SAG, hang tough. You’re the only union with balls left.

    Comment by SAG Actor — July 11, 2008 @ 7:39 am

29. Rosenberg and SAG seem a lot like Hillary Clinton vs. Obama right now. They (SAG) miscalculated their strategy like Hillary did and ultimately did not succeed. But like Hillary, they stubbornly refuse to just accept defeat gracefully and move on, costing other actors and 100,000+ below-the-liners their livelihoods in what is possibly the worst economy since the great depression. The parallels are eerily similar. I agree that SAG should eventually get the deal they are seeking, but it just didn’t work out this time. Now it’s time to move on and let everyone get back to work.

    Comment by Pie Bosco — July 11, 2008 @ 8:01 am

30. Just a thought,

    There are many, many, many more TV writers in the WGA than there are feature writers. And they couldn’t care a whole lot about directors getting the “film by” credit, and certainly would never strike over it. Not as long as writers still get to call the shots in TV, which they do.

    THAT is the truth of the matter. Ask any writer.

    Comment by Michelle T — July 11, 2008 @ 8:12 am

31. SAG, you fought the good fight and lost. take the not entirely shitty deal and live to negotiate another day.

    The poster above who talked about how a SAG strike will affect comic-con is correct, pissin’ off fanboys on their yearly pilgrimage will have MASSIVE p.r. repercussions, and I’m not being sarcastic. You will do serious DAMAGE to your cause and the industry as a whole. You think ratings slipped after the writer’s strike….

    Next, many below the line people who were economically affected by the writers’ strike will again be shit-hammered, all this with $5/gallon gas and a fucked up economy. you go on strike, it will take years before they look kindly upon you

    take your lumps now and play cesar chavez a couple years from now when it’s time to negotiate a new deal and the economic picture isn’t as dire.

    but go ahead…keep blaming dga, wga, and aftra….nothing really new when actors whine and complain about everyone else but themselves

    Comment by drew — July 11, 2008 @ 8:24 am

32. So, the strategy seems to be akin to the senate leader not allowing a vote, because he or she knows it will pass or lose. In other words, stall. Interesting. Think of the AMPTP as Bush and Rosenberg as Harry Reid, full of piss and vinegar, but short on options, and not in control of his own membership. He holds the right to “put it to a vote” and he can choose not to, and, as I understand it, cannot be forced to. So, smoke the suits out for a few weeks and wait until they thrown in the towel, or enough of the towel to, as Nikki says “save face” on both sides and make a deal. If it comes down to a minor increase in DVD, that would be a hollow victory. “Wow! NOBODY got them to budge on DVD!” But, when you run the numbers, it would need to be a substantial increase to make any real difference in the lives of 99% of “working actors.” Historic? Sure. Money in the pocket? Not so much. The real long term substance here is cracking the code on new media, tying the suits to a percentage of ALL revenue, that’s the mother lode. And, of course, it’s entirely fair. Is it gonna happen? “$25 bucks a YEAR - AFTER a ‘free window’” under the AFTRA deal? That’s just silly. No free window and a percentage is where the money is, and if SAG is going to go to war, that’s the hill they gotta take. Seems to me SAG better start focusing on their membership, informing them, educating them, explaining, via, say, various known actors on the SAG site, and in mailers (for the web-un-savy), real world projections that are carefully researched, as to how this AFTRA deal will fuck the working actor both now, and down the road. You gotta give SAG members the chance, away from the fireworks, to check the info out in the privacy of their own space, and give them the chance to mull it over, and go “oh. Shit. I get it. We don’t get this, we’re done. Not now, but 5, 10 years from now when a much larger percentage of content is web originated.” It has to be explained in a way they can wrap their heads around, out of the firework blogs, or the sound bite radio debates (which Rosenberg blew). The facts are on SAG’s side: AFTRA DID fuck them for purely self-serving reasons, and the AMPTP IS looking to fuck actors on new media, and IS portraying SAG as the stumbling block, whereas if the suits offered a fair and reasonable deal, this would be over tomorrow. The actor DOES need better protections than we’re being offered in this deal, or we will go from bad to worse in terms of ability to make a decent living. Make no mistake - the AMPTP DOES want to fuck the actor. The question is - are we ready to say “Uh, I’d rather not be fucked, thank you very much,” or, are we going to take it? Ise ready to go back to work massa!! Let’s get back in dem cotton fields!! I loves my massa!!!

    Comment by Flare — July 11, 2008 @ 10:13 am

33. coup De Tet!-

    “doing the same thing and expecting different results. The very definition of stupidity. ”

    Actually that’s the text book definition of insanity. No matter. This pattern of ignoring what’s actually happening and stating what you want to be true is a tactic that’s been used by the AMPTP since… well as long as anyone can remember. It’s “Counter”-rarian. And it’s worked very well for them. So I think it’s refreshing to see the AMPTP having to deal with their very own operating tactic being thrown in their face.

    And I think Mr Rosenberg is a little LESS stupid than you give him credit for. Patience and time will tell the tale.

    Comment by woody — July 11, 2008 @ 10:27 am

34. ‘the Screen Actors Guild wasted its political capital by losing its campaign against ratification of the AFTRA-AMPTP primetime TV contract, the AMPTP will predictably be taking every advantage of what it sees as its upper hand with the big actors union. (Funny enough, I’m told that the subject of the AFTRA vote wasn’t discussed more than a couple of times today. And one insider suggested to me far too optimistically about the AMPTP, “I certainly think they understand that was no slam dunk for them.”)’

    You’re being kind, Nikki. This person is delusional. AFTRA could have spotted its detractors three touchdowns and a field goal and still won comfortably. Now that the whistle has blown and the goal posts have been torn down, the Hollywood S.A.G. elitists are still floundering about in search of a winning game plan.

    That would exclude, of course, any strategy that includes putting the contract or strike authorization to a democratic vote before the entire membership.

    There have been many good points made in these pages about the weaknesses of the proposed contract. Actors deserve more. There’s no doubt about it. But the leadership didn’t have a workable Plan A, much less a well considered Plan B. Once the writers went back to work, achieving so little (with S.A.G. members watching their backs, no less), it was a whole new ball game. The leadership failed to adjust to the new paradigm and have paid the price.

    Comment by Pat Skipper — July 11, 2008 @ 10:39 am

35. MANNY:

    I actually agree with “I SEE YOU” about the high probability that there are a lot of AMPTP shills here, but for a very specific reason. I have posted a couple of times here now on two different articles an effort to organize a movement to work over the next 3 years to merge AFTRA and SAG under ONE guild with ONE newly elected board. For all the “UNION SHILLS” you claim this site is “RIFE” with, I got….count em…. ONE response from this board. If there were actually SAG or AFTRA performers posting here, I am quite certain they’d be on board, as I am not proposing anything that ANY performer could possibly be against. I don’t know any well reasoned, sound minded performer who doesn’t find it absurd that we have TWO performers unions, actually COMPETING AGAINST EACH OTHER for jurisdiction over work performed by the same class of laborer - the PERFORMER. I’ve not found a single voice of dissent for this idea in the performer community here or anywhere else - yet there was literally only ONE response to my posts from this board - which tells me the performer population on this board is nill. I don’t think this site is as “RIFE” with UNION SHILLS as you contend. In fact, I am starting to think I am the only GUILD member here that is a performer.

    coup De Tet!:

    I agree with some of your assertions, and certianly share your frustration, and there are many out there who do. However, the main reservation I have with your suggestion has to do with timing. The process you mention is completely viable and within our rights, but from a timing perspective, given the fact that negotiations are currently on-going and in process, pulling a move such as this now would likely only serve to further weaken our position in the eyes of the AMPTP, and would be almost as bad - not quite - but almost as bad as AFTRA’s decision to pull out of joint negotiations JUST before they were to begin. As bad as things seem, I don’t think that ousting the current board in the middle of heated negotiations would advance our position, and to the contrary, it might leave us ***really*** powerless, screwed up, and completely disoriented.

    The growing list of performers that are coming on board with the “PERFORMERS UNITED” movement over the past few days (only one of which is from this forum) has it’s sights set on reorganization over the next few years prior to the 2011 contract negotiations, with a demand and direct mandate by the majority of both unions to merge the two, remove both current boards, and hold a fresh elections process to put in place an entirely new board for ONE performers guild, the only rational and common sense thing to do.

    Best,

    Chris

    Comment by Chris - Performers United — July 11, 2008 @ 11:33 am

36. Oh, and, by the way - IF SAG can pull off this 30 foot bank shot by delaying and then building consensus to strike, and then, perhaps, striking if necessary to get a percentage of ALL new media with no free window, a substantial increase in DVD and some of the other ridiculously reasonable, fair, and overdue bumps? Step 2? All dual cardholders tear up their AFTRA cards, refuse to work AFTRA contracts, and let’s de facto merge into ONE powerful union of actors for actors, already called THE SCREEN ACTORS GUILD and shut down the actor part of AFTRA and their pandering, weasely, bullshit for good. AFTRA needs to die for SAG to live. Enough is enough.

    Comment by Flare — July 11, 2008 @ 11:39 am

37. I wish SAG could negotiate a better deal than AFTRA, but its over.

    While SAG is in the right, I blame part of the failure of what’s happened on the SAG actors, mostly in Hollywood, who voted against the merger with AFTRA out of pride reasons, and economically screwed everyone in the process by enabling the producers to use a “divide and conquer” strategy.

    Get over your pride issues or your feelings of superiority. We need ONE unified union for actors, merge SAG, AFTRA and Equity. One union can negotiate diversified contracts as other unions in other industries have shown us. There is room enough for film, television, and stage actors, new media and voice over artists, stage managers, radio and television hosts and presenters under the same umbrella, with one union negotiating all these contract under a unified front.

    Then, in three years, the writers, directors, and unified actors union need to cooperate together.

    This nonsense has to stop. This round is unfortunately lost. Three years from now begins today. I will vote for any pro-merger slate in the next SAG, AFTRA and Equity elections.

    Comment by Dan W. — July 11, 2008 @ 1:09 pm

38. Thank you, Chris, for mentioning Performers United. I hadn’t heard of it until you mentioned it.

    The first step in getting a better deal for every actor in every union is merging.

    Comment by Dan W. — July 11, 2008 @ 1:23 pm

39. Dan W.,

    This round is only “lost” if you vote in favor of a bad contract.

    Your other points are well taken.

    Comment by Writer Bob — July 11, 2008 @ 2:23 pm

40. Dan:

    EXACTLY.

    Comment by Chris - Performers United — July 11, 2008 @ 3:36 pm

41. So the writer’s are the only talent in town with BALLS, who’da thought? Pretty sad when a gorilla forgets he’s a gorilla.

    Comment by Tentoes — July 11, 2008 @ 3:50 pm

42. Bye-bye residuals, I’m not suggesting that the course of 2008 labor negotiations doesn’t have an effect on SAG’s current situation. However, SAG’s inability to look in the mirror: the fact that they misjudged their leverage, the fact that they started the process late, the fact that they wasted time with a misguided war with AFTRA, all of these childish actions along with their finger pointing at others indicate their absolution of responsibility for their current predicament. Of course outside forces framed the conditions for the contract negotiation, but poor leadership has gotten you where you are right now. Which is fucked.

    Comment by scott — July 11, 2008 @ 4:32 pm

43. Anonymous at 12:06 on 7/11 wrote:

    “Ask yourself: what would have happened had the WGA worked on their expired contract, shown some patience, and then went on strike simultaneously with SAG at the end of June?”

    The same thing that happened leading up to the actual strike, only worse. If the WGA worked without a contract during that period, everyone in town would know it to be a move towards a combined union strike in summer ‘08. And the studios and networks would do exactly the same thing — put the whip to every writer under contract to generate a stockpile of material. Except they’d have have had 9 more months to do it. How many episodes of LOST and HEROES do you figure that would have been? How many features greenlit? For the writers to delay while basically announcing “a strike is coming” would have resulted in months of them plaiting a rope for the AMPTP to hang them with.

    “And if they’d gotten together with the DGA as well? And AFTRA?”

    Interesting point, but you’re assuming that all of these guilds have the same agenda and needs. Sure, nobody wants to get screwed by the AMPTP, but there are all sorts of methods and degrees of screwing. And not every guild has a dog in every fight.

    The DGA did have a chance to show solidarity and chose not to take it. They decided to act “like adults” as the party line has become. But this assumes that the DGA is only made up of directors, and that all directors have the same industry concerns as all writers. That’s not the case. There are many positions represented by the DGA for whom residuals are not and never have been an issue. “Screwed on residuals? Who cares? I don’t get ‘em anyway — let’s ratify.” I don’t mean to vilify them. They’re a union negotiating on behalf of their members, not the industry as a whole.

    The WGA has a similar internal schism. The profit models and relative power of TV and feature writers are vastly different. And then there are the disenfranchised animation, reality, and game show writers standing on the doorstep and getting kicked around like a political football.

    As for the AMPTP, they haven’t even shown solidarity with their fellow performers’ union, SAG. They’re already the red-headed stepchild of acting unions with little to lose and much to gain by rolling over for the AMPTP. One would think that SAG and AFTRA would have many more common goals than AFTRA and the WGA (or DGA), so what would the WGA or the industry as a whole hope to have gained by waiting for AFTRA? Are you assuming that AFTRA would have stood shoulder to shoulder with the other unions against the AMPTP? I think that’s doubtful. Because they had the opportunity to do so with SAG and chose instead to take the low route.

    Of course, they’re just looking out for their members, as well, one might argue. Unless those members happen to be dual card holders, it seems. And in my opinion, the actions of AFTRA seem more clearly the actions of a union at war with a rival union and willing to “win” at any cost.

    But to answer the basic question of “What would have happened if the WGA had waited?” I don’t believe things now would be any better, and would likely be much worse.

    Comment by RandomSig — July 11, 2008 @ 5:07 pm

44. Scott, the Screen Actors Guild had no other choice but to try to persuade AFTRA members to defeat the contract because the contract is bad for screen actors. In that sense it’s hard to view the “war” with AFTRA as misguided (and the question of who fired the first shot is open to debate, to say the least).

    And I don’t think SAG leaders misjudged their leverage so much as had it cut out from under them by the defection of AFTRA from Phase 1. But not all their leverage is gone in any event. SAG can still strike, and in my view, should.

    I believe the best course of action is be a selective strike targeting features only, while letting TV production continue. That would shut down the big money pipeline while keeping the town working for the most part and minimizing the risk of losing jurisdiction over new TV shows to AFTRA.

    SAG is only fucked if it accepts the AFTRA deal.

    Comment by Bye-Bye Residuals — July 11, 2008 @ 5:34 pm

45. RandomSig,

    There is a serious flaw in your response to why the WGA didn’t continue working under the terms of its epired ocntract and strike in unison with SAG. You said that the studios would have had time to stockpile scripts in anticipation. Well, they might have but so what? If the WGA went on strike with SAG, THERE WOULD BE NO ACTORS TO READ THE SCRIPTS!!!

    Comment by Intrigued — July 11, 2008 @ 8:34 pm

46. Quoth the AMPTP

    “The last thing we need is a long, hot summer of labor strife that puts even more pressure on a badly struggling economy and deprives audiences of the entertainment they clearly desire in such difficult times.”

    It’s time to take up a collection for carbon credits to pay for all the carbon dioxide and hot air emissions wasted by the AMPTP spokesbots and their cowering craven mogul bosses and contributing hugely to not only global warming with all of their hot air but the ‘long, hot summer of labor strife’. And no, reality TV or these pronouncements from on high you call press releases do not constitute ‘entertainment we clearly desire’.

    Listen geniuses, I’m out here in the audience with millions of other people around the world and I 1000% get that what’s holding up the flow of production of entertainment content FOR A SECOND TIME is you and not the actors. Just like during the 100 day writers you forced on everyone (remember the ‘freeze’ in scripted TV production back in the fall and winter of our ‘dissed content’?) and not just the writers. We fans and viewers are not that dumb…see your declining TV ratings for evidence of how we’re on to you.

    These moguls act like Tom & Daisy Buchanan in ‘The Great Gatsby’, like they think rich greedy media moguls are magically different from the rest of us and immune from negative consequences and can make messes anywhere they want out of everyone else’s lives and then hide from reality by playing around at rich people camps (like Camp Allen) during the ‘long, hot summer of labor strife’. They are about to be woken up from their delusional state and it will not be pretty. Get ready to clean up after yourselves, boys.

    Advertisers and shareholders and oh yeah a bunch of federal legislators and bureaucrats are watching you mini moguls (who save Rupert Murdoch are frankly poor relations when compared to the other mogul campers at Summer Camp for Spoiled Rich Guys and amusingly enough many of whom run the new media style companies where the future lies, a future that does not have to include old media moguls). And we’re going to make sure they rub your noses in this. Because it’s you who are leaving us to our own devices and to entertain ourselves. And this is definitely an option open to us.

    We’re not ‘playing’ at this for just the next quarter…we’re in this for the long haul. And we don’t watch TV & movies to see you, we only want to see the talent. Which means you have to pay them. Fairly. If you can’t or don’t want to do that then be prepared to be cut out from the pipeline. We can now pay them more directly ourselves (hallelujah technology!) without meddling middlemen. Like you.

    That $200,000 a day sweetner for SAG to take your alleged ‘final offer’ before August 15th? Well that’s all of a whopping $1.67 per SAG member per day.

    $200,000 is also only *half* a day’s pay for CBS President Les ‘Moonbat’ Moonves. So it might cost an out of work actor an ‘insult of a tip’ to stay out for a day and not take a bigger financial screwing. But keep this up and we’ll be glad to make sure you all lose more than what Les’s daily salary leeches from shareholders. Every. Single. Day. This. Impasse. Lasts.

    So if you want to get in the game you need to STFU already (ask one of the $8.00 an hour kid interns you toss abuse and an insulting pay at to watch the sites online to explain that abbreviation to you) get in the room yourselves and make a damned deal with SAG already. One that’s not insulting to everyone else watching this process. Or prepare to (for once) suffer the consequences personally.

    We’re so very done with you moguls and your AMPTP flaks.

    The Audience

    Comment by WhyWeWatch — July 12, 2008 @ 4:50 am

47. bye-bye residuals-

    “I believe the best course of action is be a selective strike targeting features only, while letting TV production continue.”

    hahahahhaha

    What features? There are none….When you find one starting up you let us all know.

    Comment by coup De Tet! — July 12, 2008 @ 8:34 am

48. This is a very crappy time for a strike. The economy sucks bad enough as it is and it’s hard enough to get a decent job let alone a job in your industry. The Unite for Strength’s campaign against SAG’s leadership is no surprise to me. The sad thing is, for most people who needed the work, the damage has already been done.

    Comment by Jared — July 31, 2008 @ 2:34 pm

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