I give TV and movie fans a lot of credit: when they get mad, they scare the crap out of the moguls. That's happening at Lionsgate where the studio's phones and email accounts are jammed with angry fans for the past week. They're making a stink because new Lionsgate topper Joe Drake appears to be dumping all of ex-prez Peter Block's movies. That includes Midnight Meat Train, the adaptation of the Barker short story that's a fan fave. Supposedly the trailer tested higher than any film in Lionsgate history. But when Drake took over, he promptly bumped Midnight Meat Train from its May 16th release date. The result was that Rogue Pictures' The Strangers (which was skedded two weekends later) had zero competition in the hard-R category. And guess who was exec producer of The Strangers? Joe Drake.
Then, the websites, Shock Til You Drop and Fangoria found out Lionsgate is planning only a 100 theater run on August 1st to merely fulfill the contractual obligation with Lakeshore Entertainment. The plan is to release the DVD immediately after. So fans are asking if Drake is such a dummy that he'd intentionally sink what to them is a sure-thing hit. And they want to know if the studio that was built on horror gross (both the gory and cash kinds) is going to bite the hand that's fed it so well in favor of four Tyler Perry movies a year.
The result is a lot of anti-Lionsgate blogging in Horrorville by fans, by self-appointed horror flick experts, and also by Barker himself. "I would passionately encourage everybody who cares about my work to use this chance to change the minds of the folks at Lionsgate," Barker, whose Midnight Picture Show company co-produced the film, recently stated on the Clive Barker's Revelations website. "I really think, this late in the day, that grassroots support for our movie could significantly improve our chances of reaching a much bigger audience theatrically." Lakeshore, too, is pushing hard. Midnight Meat Train is described as a cold, unyielding but also stylish slasher film that relishes exploitive gross-out gags. Not my kind of pic, to be sure. Especially when director Ryuhei Kitamura making his U.S. debut promised as much gore, if not more, as Saw and Hostel. So I'd be a hypocrite not to applaud Lionsgate for wanting to move away from extreme hard-R. On the other hand, Lionsgate is far behind in studio market share right now. In the meantime, given the active imaginations of Clive Barker fans, I have this image in my head of Jon Feltheimer under the desk crouching in terror every time the phone rings...
If Joe Drake isn’t releasing it, it’s because he doesn’t think it’s going to serve his company financially. He’s a pro and he’s done a lot of Horror movies. Probably as crappy as its title is absurd.
Comment by tf — June 18, 2008 @ 11:42 pm
This is a really boneheaded move from the studio that released BRATZ on over 1500 screens and still thinks Dane Cook is the Next Big Thing.
MIDNIGHT MEAT TRAIN didn’t cost much ($15m) to make, the script is unsettling, it’s directed by a stylish Japanese filmmaker (he made the acclaimed cult hit “Versus”) and has Clive Barker’s personal seal of approval, something that he hasn’t given in a long time. The buzz is strong in the horror community and for good reason– Barker’s source material is sharp, scary and genuinely unsettling.
I know that companies routinely throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to new regimes, but in a summer when the only true “horror” movies are the dire THE HAPPENING and MIRRORS (the action-oriented HELLBOY II and THE MUMMY III don’t count), this movie — something fright fans have been looking forward to for months — is the real deal. Horror fans are constantly crapped on by narrow-minded producers and idiot executives who think remakes and sequels are all that the genre has to offer. It would be wise if Drake, whose very studio still exists because of its genre offerings and who’s foisting SAW V on us this fall, to treat the fans with a lot more dignity and respect and give this a decent release.
Comment by Jack Burton — June 18, 2008 @ 11:48 pm
It sounds like Joe Drake is suffering from a bad case of Toby Emmerichitis, in which you badmouth (or in this case, short-sheet) horror films even when the genre is your studio’s bread-and-butter and your rivals are raking in the bucks with these films behind your back. Smart move, dude.
Comment by Bebe Rebozo — June 19, 2008 @ 12:06 am
Joe Drake seems to have excellent business sense. Shelving a $15m movie that’s bound to make a profit is the same kind of wise decision it was to paper all of Los Angeles with promo posters for THE SPIRIT, a prloject with absolutely no built-in audience, nearly a year before that movie’s release. I eagerly await BRATZ 2, with supporting roles by Lionsgate mainstays Jason Statham, Dane Cook, Jessica Alba and whatever WWE flavor-of-the-week Vince McMahon foists upon the studio.
Comment by Zach S. — June 19, 2008 @ 1:08 am
@Comment by tf — June 18, 2008 @ 11:42 pm
Oh man, you forgot to add the “/sarc” tag at the end of your post because you can’t be serious.
Comment by manny — June 19, 2008 @ 3:06 am
I saw the latest AFI special the other night, and saw that they went out of their way to avoid giving a Top Ten Horror films list (while including such obscure “genres” as Sports and Courtroom Dramas).Hollywood’s long-standing bias against a “Disrespectable” genre that has been one of it’s financial bedrocks has always been obvious, but it seems to have become moreso lately.(Admittedly, the specter of “torture Porn”- a trend that has already burned out because the FANS have rejected it- doesn’t help the genre’s image; but it’s pure hypocrisy to pretend that the majority of crap turned out by the studios isn’t pandering to one audience or another- from SEX AND THE CITY to LORD OF THE RINGS.) Hollywood would work better-both as a business AND an artform- if these stupid games would just stop…
Comment by cst — June 19, 2008 @ 3:33 am
Would a new exec strangle a rival’s picture to advance himself? “It’s the smart move,” as they say. That being said, “Strangers” is a deeply disturbing experience. If that’s your ‘thing,’ you might see it in a theater where it really works you.
Comment by Still Locking My Doors — June 19, 2008 @ 3:45 am
Nikki, I must say that I’m stunned that you’re giving this story any coverage whatsoever, given your rants and screeds against films like this in the past. Have you seen the trailer for the film, or read anything about it? It’s horribly violent, misogynistic, and flat-out gross. I’m ashamed of you for supporting it in this manner.
Comment by Can't Take it Anymore — June 19, 2008 @ 6:06 am
Now why would Lionsgate limit release a film like this to over 100 cinemas? Of course August is known as the bad hohum month for films but Lionsgate execs should’ve considered a much wider release. Now did finacing have something to do with this? I don’t blame horror fans turning on the company this way. But limit release a film that could be a profitable box office could only make one wonder in this case. I have several wonderful Lionsgate releases in my dvds in my collection.
Comment by chuck — June 19, 2008 @ 6:48 am
Joe Drake is a VERY smart man and terrific sales agent. He knows what he’s doing.
But then again he’s giving Drew Barrymore her directorial debut and made Mr Magorium’s Wonder Emporium, so what the hell do I know.
Comment by RobertNotSoWise — June 19, 2008 @ 7:20 am
“I’d be a hypocrite not to applaud Lionsgate for wanting to move away from extreme hard-R.”
So there’s no room for a genre beloved by fans?
We are a nation at war and, as such, we need the cathartic release only horor can provide. Of course today’s horror is particularly violent, it is a relfection of society at large. Prvious films that “offended” (DAWN OF THE DEAD, THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE, etc) are now not only considered classics, but the remakes of these films are flooding prodco’s with cash and a new audience hungry for new ideas. What will we remake in twenty years if there are no new quality horror films today?
MIDNIGHT MEAT TRAIN is tracking through the roof and a studio is going to dump it out of spite? It’s not only bad business for Lionsgate, it’s bad for Hollywood at large and a real blow to fans.
Comment by Sean — June 19, 2008 @ 7:38 am
SUPPORT ORIGINAL R-RATED HORROR!!
RELEASE MIDNIGHT MEAT TRAIN ON THOUSANDS OF SCREENS!!
BURN LIONSGATE TO THE GROUND!!
Comment by Kayce — June 19, 2008 @ 8:10 am
Drake is a moron who shelved all of the scripts at Lionsgate when he took over. Pete Block was doing a great job there. Too bad they didn’t realize it. I know Feltheimer and can say with 100% certainty that he is a short, Napoleonic, egomaniac.
Comment by J Money — June 19, 2008 @ 8:15 am
A $15m budget on a horror film with such good buzz among horror fans is the perfect recipe for a quick buck as you are going to get. I think there should be a clause in every studio chief contract that any decision that puts ego over money is grounds for immediate dismissal with no golden parachute.
What’s this Drake fellow’s worry, that if the film does well they’ll bring the old guy back or something. You release the film, take credit for its profit, blame any losses on the last guy, and pocket your check.
Comment by Furious D — June 19, 2008 @ 8:27 am
If you were looking for logic in this decision, look no farther than the fact that Drake bumped this horror film to make room for his own, THE STRANGERS. I’ve only worked in Hollywood for a dozen years, so I’m a neophyte compared to Drake, but I have learned one thing: the movie business has nothing to do with the movie-going public, or even the movies themselves. The only think film execs are ever concerned with are their own careers.
Comment by John Crye — June 19, 2008 @ 8:28 am
I’ve seen the film. There is no conspiracy here. It’s unreleasable. Straight to DVD level filmmaking.
Comment by Frank B — June 19, 2008 @ 8:59 am
The trailer tested high? When I saw it in the theaters, EVERYONE wa laughing their asses off. “Midnight Meat Train” may be the worst name ever for a movie. Ever.
Comment by Worst Name Ever — June 19, 2008 @ 9:14 am
The Horror, the Horror.
This is why we end up waiting for good movies to come out on DVD and have to sift through all of the crap they show at the theaters to find a few nuggets. Political maneuvering by executives focusing on their selfish ego, rather than on the quality and merits of their finished products.
Comment by Matt Kagan — June 19, 2008 @ 9:14 am
The actual source of the news is a website called Bloody-Disgusting.com you should probably credit them.
Comment by ben 10 — June 19, 2008 @ 9:28 am
Comment by Conrad Straker — June 19, 2008 @ 9:33 am
Man this sucks. The source story is incredibly scary and Barker’s name is gold to serious horror fans.
I’m sick of horror films and fans getting screwed over– even George Romero’s well-regarded Diary Of The Dead had a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it release. And funny how Drake’s own movie — one that made a lot more than anyone expected — just happened to benefit from him shifting the competition away from its release date. It’s too bad about Creek and The Burrowers– both are supposed to be good.
Comment by Fielding Mellish — June 19, 2008 @ 10:35 am
I know nothing about the movie, but I saw two trailers in the theater, and people laughed at it both times.
Comment by Edie — June 19, 2008 @ 10:45 am
As someone who has seen both the laughably stupid “Repo!” and the kind of “ho-hum” “Midnight Meat Train,” I can honestly say that these would get killed in the marketplace. $15 million for the picture and another $15 million to market “Meat Train” wouldn’t get the thing to $30 million at the box office. Joe Drake is making the right decision by going limited release and straight-to-DVD. Way to go, Joe!
With “Repo!,” Lionsgate did Bousman a solid in return for “Saw IV,” but they knew from the “songs,” from the pre-production “art” and from the fact that no one would get close to acting it based on script quality that it would not be something they could really get behind with any kind of release.
The so-called “horror press” clamoring for this is the most easily bought-and-sold of all the geek press with standards lower than Harry Knowles. Bousman invites them to a party at his house and they spend the next three years announcing how much of a genius he is, praising the unwatchable “Saw IV.” Bousman is no master of horror, no Cronenberg, more like a latter-day Renny Harlin with plenty of “Mindhunters” and “The Covenants” and re-shot “Exorcist IV’s” ahead of him. That is, if “Repo!” doesn’t completely sink him.
If you don’t believe me, go back into the archives of some of those horror-geek sites and see how much they hyped up the mediocre Eli Roth or the unwatchable “Hatchet” - another movie where a director kissed a lot of ass for positive reviews claiming his movie was “too extreme” to get into theaters, prompting a similar write-in campaign, resulting in a ton of fans realizing they’d been had when they finally got a chance to see the dreadful movie.
“Burrowers” should not, however, be lumped in with those two. Different animal completely.
Comment by Viewer — June 19, 2008 @ 11:29 am
I have seen the film, and not only is it great, but the gore doesn’t come to near the level of Saw or Hostel. It has the pace of a thriller with some intermittent gross out gags, and the end is gory, I will give you that, but they cut a lot of the super-gore out. Why does the industry crap on us true adult horror fans who want to see R-rated films? Look at how well most horror films do, then they crap on the fans who fork over their money to see the films. It’s like being sweet to your girlfriend while you screw her sister behind her back.
Comment by Paula — June 19, 2008 @ 11:39 am
Yeah, they’re all pros. They never make a mistake, or let their egos get in the way. That’s why BRATZ did so well.
Comment by -Leon K. — June 19, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
I am excited for Joe Drake to greenlight a new series of Larry The Cable Guy movies. Hits like Witless Relocation are clearly the real box-office draws, not these silly horror movies like… oh yeah, the Joe Drake-produced success The Strangers.
Comment by El Duce — June 19, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
I too have seem REPO - I however really liked the film, though I would not call it a horror film. I think these ’shelved’ movies are ’shelved’ as they pose marketing problems, not quality problems.
Comment by Anonymous — June 19, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
Yes the title has recieved some titters in movie theaters when the trailer ran (before the highly mature audiences of Rambo…) but that is the original title of Barker’s short story and his most popular and precious amongst his fans.
Don’t know what all these haters are talking about.
I saw the film and the audience stood up and cheered at the end! Seriously! Personally, I thought the script was far more intelligent than your usual fright flick and Mr. Kitamura’s visual elegence was breathtaking. Sure there was blood but the violence was intermittent and served the story well.
The overall effect was very chillng and effective.
But let’s face it, this movie is not made for smarmy executives or whiney Drake worshippers. It’s made for horror fans! And it is these horror fans who are BEGGING to shell out their 10 bucks on opening weekend if the powers that be will let it play in their neck of the woods.
It is irrelevant if the final product is perfect filmmaking. See Joe Drake’s previous titles “Boogyman”, “Messengers”, “The Eye” or “Devil’s Rejects” as examples of this theory! I excluded the Grudge because that movie was actually decent.
The fact is TRUE BLUE horror fans are angry at the lack of adult themed, serious horror in general. And they are more than sick and tired of remakes and PG 13 teeny bopper dreck!
Midnight Meat Train was that rare project that had a long history in the genre (the story has been a cult classic since the early ’80s), a serious pedegre with Barker’s name above the title, a built-in fan base and a visionary director making his english language debut.
They are rightly pissed off that Drake selfishly cleared the market for his own movie at the expense of his shareholders interests!
LONG LIVE THE MEAT!!!
Comment by fair shake — June 19, 2008 @ 12:47 pm
maybe he’ll change his mind and redo it as a pre-teen comedy, Bratz Meat Mall
Comment by ian — June 19, 2008 @ 12:50 pm
My client is in this movie and I will be pissed if it doesn’t get a more wider release. Clive Barker is a great writer and I think it will be a waste. At least his horror stories are original compared to all the other crap that is out there now.
Comment by Agent Girl — June 19, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
I saw the movie and the audience stood up and cheered. Literally. I thought it was awesome. I have read the reviews online and the horror community has vouched for it as well. Does anyone really think that with Barker’s name above the title that Drake couldn’t sell this movie to the core demo? Anyone remember how bad Boogeyman was?
Comment by Meat Lover — June 19, 2008 @ 1:10 pm
They wanted to call it “Midnight Meat Train To Georgia”, but I wouldn’t give up the rights.
Comment by Gladys Knight — June 19, 2008 @ 1:31 pm
Under new management, Lionsgate hopes to shed the stigma of being a horror entity, and start making entertainment the whole family can enjoy. Great move there, Drake. That last Prod. Co. to do that was New Line Cinema. And look where they are now. “The House That Freddy Built” made the same mistake you’re making now, after building a war chest from the revenue stream its horror titles generated, New Line Cinema abandoned the genre for high risk ventures. While the roll of the dice paid off with THE LORD OF THE RINGS films, it certainly didn’t pay off with THE GOLDEN COMPASS, among other flops.
Horror films generate revenue which you can use to solidify your cash flow and take risks on non-horror brands.
No horror films generate no revenue.
And neither did THE GOLDEN COMPASS.
Take a look at New Line Drake… and see if that’s where you want to end up.
One does not need to eradicate their supporting fan base in order to expand their label. To do so is just silly.
–Raider
Comment by Raider — June 19, 2008 @ 1:47 pm
Sorry, Ben 10, you’re wrong.
I read B-D, too, and they never revealed those specific details about its release. They just kept saying “possibly limited.” Finke’s correct in giving credit where credit is due.
I’m still waiting to here what happens to Repo! Long live the Meat!
Comment by Barker Fan — June 19, 2008 @ 2:34 pm
Who’d have thought a Brooke Shields flick would cause such a ruckus?
Anyway, if Lionsgate is going to piss on all the fans that kept them in business for years, then they shouldn’t be surprised if Drake’s flick The Strangers become a reality, doll masks and all.
Comment by Francine Fishpaw — June 19, 2008 @ 2:40 pm
Who put a stick up your ass, ‘viewer’? Hatchet was a solid slasher film that had a lot of good laughs to boot. Repo is the closest thing to an original film we’ve had all year, and MMT is far more than just ‘ho-hum’. And I am one (of many) that gave Repo a good review - but I can’t recall ever being invited to Darren Bousman’s house for a party. Ever stop to think maybe these movies get good reviews from our sites simply because we see a lot of complete garbage that simply recycles shit we’ve seen a million times? Maybe The Burrowers, with its underground monsters (wow, GENIUS!) will save horror, maybe it won’t. The difference is, MMT and Repo have been seen, and enjoyed, and thus we’re trying to help them out for the good of the genre as a whole - not because of alleged “bribes” from the filmmakers. “Petty”, indeed.
Comment by Brian — June 19, 2008 @ 3:51 pm
I was involved in the making of this movie and I have to say that everyone who worked on it was SO DAMN PROUD of what we accomplished.
It is easy to set up a film like PROM NIGHT throw in a handful of faces from the CW and then chop them up one by one. And, yes, I know those films make money.
But as a horror fan from WAY BACK (as in I read the Books of Blood by Clive Barker in paperback, dawg!), it was an HONOR and a PRIVLIDGE to work on this film.
This movie was for the fans from the beginning so perhaps it is fitting that the film’s greatest achievement is in drawing attention to the fickle tastes of the oh-so-brilliant suits with their manicured fingers on the zeitgeist.
As for all of us involved with the project, WE KNOW WE DID A GREAT JOB AND THE FANS HAVE SHOWN THEIR SUPPORT.
My hat goes off to Clive, Lakeshore and all the others involved enduring many years of B.S. to get this film to the big screen. I don’t care if it comes out on one screen in Boise, Idaho…I’ll be there opening night!
LONG LIVE THE MEAT!
Comment by bummed — June 19, 2008 @ 4:49 pm
Look, “real” horror fans. You can complain about PG-13 horror movies all you want, but the well-reviewed-by-the-horror-press film “The Ruins” made $17 million at the box office with an R rating.
The utterly unwatchable “Prom Night” made $43.8 million at the box office with a PG-13.
“The Eye” remake - PG-13 - made $31.2 million. Junk.
“One Missed Call” was cut from R to PG-13 and squeaked by with $26.8 million. If it was R, you’d better believe it might’ve made $8 million.
You’d better believe Warners wishes they could’ve done the same to the “Funny Games” remake. Or “The Reaping” last year, which did okay with $25 million on its R-rating, but cost a lot more with all the reshoots.
“The Mist” - also R - made $25 million. “The Messengers” at PG-13, made $35 million with a $2 million cheaper production budget. Piece of shit? Yes. More profitable than “The Mist?” That, too.
Yes, “The Strangers” is almost at $50 million and climbing with an R rating, but it was a big gamble to release that in the summer.
Look at “30 Days of Night” - HUGE marketing campaign, very expensive, meant to start a franchise to follow-up “Resident Evil,” pushed it out there in October just in time for Halloween. It made $39 million with its R rating. A few months earlier, “1408″ - with its PG-13 rating - made $71 million, which is probably what “Strangers” would be at if it wasn’t R as it had just as great and scary a trailer.
It’s just not good business sense anymore to spend $15 million on “The Hills Have Eyes 2’s” production budget to get a domestic gross of $20.8 million.
If it takes about $15 million for P&A to launch a movie theatrically on over 2,000 screens and horror fans MIGHT bring $15 million in ticket sales, it’s just not good business to spend $15-$20 million - a low-budget in Hollywood terms - to make a movie aimed solely at them (see: the R-rated “Hitcher” remake disaster).
And if you suggest taking indie horror flicks - zero-budgeters like “Hatchet” and giving them theatrical releases - there’s zero crossover appeal as savvy audiences see trailers in the theater that look “cheap” and stay away.
So, until something changes, look for studios to make MORE PG-13 horror films, not less.
Comment by Mo Money — June 19, 2008 @ 5:21 pm
HATCHET a solid slasher film? It said it was a return to harcore American horror and turned out to be a slapstick comedy rip-off of everything, even VENOM. I never understood what all the fuss was about on that one.
Comment by Lee — June 19, 2008 @ 6:53 pm
Re: Brian
I will agree that “Repo!” is somewhat original in its concept, audacious even in its presentation, but also thoroughly ridiculous as a whole. Like the similarly future-set musical, “The Apple,” “Repo!” is just one of those movies that makes you realize the filmmakers were very, very dedicated to a specific vision which is something I respect. But also like “The Apple,” it feels like that filmmaker is Menahem Golan.
Your site looks cool. You probably don’t want me as a reader, but now you have me.
Comment by Viewer — June 19, 2008 @ 7:03 pm
Clive Barker can’t get a fair shake in Hollywood to save his life. He makes HELLRAISER (and after the second one, had nothing to do with the series but cash the occasional check), has his next two features — NIGHTBREED and LORD OF ILLUSIONS — cut to ribbons and everything else he’s been involved with, from New Line’s AMERICAN DESCENT to Paramount’s THE THIEF OF ALWAYS to Disney’s ambitious ABARAT, stranded in development hell. Finally one of his stories is adapted, approved and endorsed by him and it gets tweaked because of studio politics. I’ve met the guy and he’s not just incredibly talented, but exceedingly pleasant and nice. Like the dedicated horror fans Lionsgate is turning on — uh what about those SAW movies, “Mo Money”? — Clive Barker deserves a helluva lot more respect than he’s getting here.
Comment by Jack Burton — June 19, 2008 @ 7:32 pm
I love it when the haters point to box office results to shore up their weak arguments.
Thank you, Mo Money, we KNOW that PG-13 is profitable.
The Ruins sucked that’s why it didn’t do business.
The Reaping was boring that’s why it underperformed.
One Missed Call and The Eye were duds because people are sick to death of J-horror remakes.
Funny Games… are you serious??? It was flat out stupid to expect Haeneke to make a commercial horror film. I love his work but Caché does not make him Wes Craven or John Carpenter.
But 1408 was cool and interesting. And it was a hit.
What people are complaining about isn’t R vs. PG-13… this is about original ideas vs. the same old sh*t.
Meat Train is different than anything we’ve seen in the genre for many years and the fans are hungry for originality.
Based on fan response, if it had received similar marketing to (Drake’s) “Strangers” it would have certainly cleaned up as well.
What’s at issue here is an executive’s conflict of interest and the repercussions it will have for his company’s fan base. Not the state of the genre in general.
Comment by No Mo Money — June 19, 2008 @ 7:56 pm
So many are proclaiming MTT to be “different,” yet offer no examples…no discussion.
Go by the trailer (unfair, but hey, it’s all that’s out there), and I see ANOTHER desaturated, urban decay horror film packed with hacky visual cues, a laughable cast, and the worst title of the last 50 years of cinema.
So…what’s good about it? I find the silence around here very telling.
Comment by Ashby — June 19, 2008 @ 9:03 pm
drake is a dildo. pete block rules.
Comment by brian — June 19, 2008 @ 9:10 pm
Agreed with Brian.
Sorry, ‘Viewer,’ but I call ‘em like I see ‘em no matter how many parties Lionsgate dangles in front of me. Your blanket statement about horror journalists and their supposedly low standards doesn’t hold. “Hostel: Part II”? Roth knows how I feel. “Repo!”? Yeah, I saw it, too, and told Darren and the other creators I disliked it. I stand by what I like, whether it’s “Hatchet” or “Midnight Meat Train” or “Funny Games.” There are some of us out there with a modicum of integrity.
The issue at hand isn’t the endless debate of R versus PG-13 horror; it’s about horror fans across the country being deprived of seeing a long-awaited (by Barker and genre fans) film on the big screen because of a petty personal dispute. And it is personal. If I was some kid living in Michigan - one following what was written about the film in the pages of Fangoria and on various horror sites - I’d be pretty livid.
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, other films under the old regime are going to have problems. I love how “The Burrowers” (which I’m looking forward to) held a cozy spot on Lionsgate’s press page (”Coming soon,” it read) before being taken off completely. “Repo!” “Creek,” “Haunting in CT”…all shoved to undetermined dates mysteriously.
Comment by Ryan Rotten — June 19, 2008 @ 9:33 pm
Viewer:
Hahaha quite the contrary - you and I clearly have different tastes, something I wish I could say about more of my readers. Ideally, half the response to any given review would be agreeable, and half would be opposed. Feel free to ‘argue’ on any film - I read each and every comment posted, regardless of how old the review is.
As for MMT being different, I can offer a few examples. One, its suspenseful, so that’s automatically “unique” in today’s marketplace, where there’s hardly even any ATTEMPTS at suspense (ironically, The Strangers is another exception), let alone successful ones. It’s also very stylish, it has more in common with Argento in his prime than it does the usual music video style of most studio horror. And while it’s not nihilistic like the Hostel films, it’s not upbeat either - prepare for a downer ending that might not be what you expect even with that warning. It’s possibly the best setup for a sequel I’ve seen in ages, due to the sheer amount of possibility as to where they could take it. It’s very much like an origin film, in comic terms, except you don’t realize it until it’s over. Add all that up, not to mention solid acting, and you have yourself, yes, something different. The title may be goofy, but it’s the source material’s title. Shawshank Redemption is a terrible title too, you know?
P.s. i’m not the “drake is a dildo” brian. Just to clear that up. Don’t know the man.
Comment by Brian — June 19, 2008 @ 9:51 pm
12 producers? Wow. That’s a lot of meat.
Comment by BLF — June 19, 2008 @ 10:20 pm
As for me, I love the title. It’s disturbing and evocative. And, as others have pointed out, it’s the name of the source material.
I think the last film Barker was so enthusiastic about (other than his mucked-about “Lord Of Illusions”) was Bernard Rose’s fantastic “Candyman,” which made $25m on an $8m investment back in 1992.
Comment by Mahogany — June 19, 2008 @ 11:58 pm
Meat Train is different from most horror movies in that it has actual CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, GOOD ACTING, UNIQUE ACTION SEQUENCES and INTERESTING THEMES.
Not to mention the best scares I’ve seen in years…
Don’t knock it ’till you’ve tried it, dude.
LONG LIVE THE MEAT!!!
Comment by bummed — June 20, 2008 @ 1:45 am
I for one LIKED the apple. It was so fucking out there you had to respect it. Was it terrible? YES? But it’s a film that took balls to make. the APPLE is not for the masses, nor is REPO. REPO and THE APPLE are musicals about ‘out there’ subject matter. I would take that over another SAW film or remake any day.
Comment by different — June 20, 2008 @ 9:26 am
To the person who said “the last film Barker was so enthusiastic about was ‘Candyman,’” well, that’s because the only other films really were “Hellraiser” and “Candyman” sequels, though Barker certainly championed “Saint Sinner,” his numerous video games, movie projects he was hoping to get going, the “Tortured Souls” toys and so on. I have read every single thing Barker has ever put to paper and am a big fan, but you have to admit the guy is pretty enthusiastic about everything he’s working on and gives interview after interview about even the smallest, odd-ball side project like that CD-Rom or whatever it was that he was doing with the guy from Korn. I believe that he really likes “Midnight Meat Train,” but he ISN’T one to shy from self-promotion, so you might understand how someone could view it as too much hype.
As for anyone who has bought into the notion that this is a Joe Drake vs. Peter Block problem and that “This Time It’s Personal,” you drank the Kool-Aid hook, line and sinker just as you were hoped to.
Comment by Clive Luv-ah — June 20, 2008 @ 9:38 am
>
Care to elaborate, if you seem to know the full story? Unless you were there for the meetings and disputes yourself…
Comment by Anonymous — June 20, 2008 @ 10:22 am
If you think “Candyman” was the last thing Barker got excited about, you’re too young to remember how much he promoted the shit out of “Lord of Illusions” back in ‘95.
Comment by Brainy Smurf — June 20, 2008 @ 11:04 am
I meant that this was the biggest, non-Barker directed/produced/etc. project– i.e. he’s distanced himself from the “Hellraiser” franchise and some of the other adaptations of his work. I thought he was a pretty great director, but he got so burned on “Nightbreed” and “Lord Of Illusions” that he didn’t go back to the well.
Comment by Mahogany — June 20, 2008 @ 12:11 pm
Re: trailer getting laughs due to title,
What to do when youre stuck with a lame title and risk laughs in the theater? Show it up front, first thing or next to first thing in the trailer.
Set it up so people start to laugh or question the title and then bring on the shocking imagery.
Comment by hot tip — June 20, 2008 @ 1:34 pm
Clive Barker’s Karma?
Clive Barker’s second film as producer after THE PLAGUE under his Midnight Picture Show banner, is getting a VERY limited theatrical release before heading straight to DVD.
Here’s where the karma part steps in. Clive and his producing partner, Jorge Saralegui, were largely responsible for having the creative team removed from THE PLAGUE in post production. THE PLAGUE was based on an original screenplay and not on any Barker material. I should know. I was both the writer and director of THE PLAGUE (along with my writing partner, Teal Minton). After we struggled for eight years to get the film made, Barker and Saralegui kept us out of the editing room once our contracts expired and re-cut the film from scratch into exactly the kind of film we were making THE PLAGUE in opposition to. And for their efforts, THE PLAGUE (misleadingly retitled CLIVE BARKER’S THE PLAGUE) was released straight to DVD and became, in many fans’ opinions, an embarrassment for Clive’s new Midnight Picture Show label. Not a great introduction, to say the least. Now that Clive’s second film under his new banner is also going quickly to DVD, he’s decided to start a grassroots campaign to get the film a wider theatrical release! Sound familiar?
Enter a website called spreadingtheplague.com; a site dedicated to getting THE PLAGUE: WRITERS & DIRECTOR’S CUT released. This cut of the film is completely different from Clive’s frame-one re-cut. It is supported by the filmmakers, cast and crew, as well as noted film authors, journalists, film historians and Mr. Bill Butler, the magnificent DP of such films as JAWS, THE CONVERSATION, and FRAILTY (Mr. Butler was not invited by the producers to color-time his own work on THE PLAGUE). Is it possible that Clive’s name above the title and involvement in a film is, in fact, the very reason these films turn out the way they do?
Perhaps taking a closer look at Clive’s producing team, their past histories and reputations, might reveal something of importance and begin to answer this question.
In the meantime, please consider helping to support THE PLAGUE: WRITERS & DIRECTOR’S CUT (and Clive’s karma) by going to spreadingtheplague.com to learn all about what happened on THE PLAGUE and to sign our petition (1235 signatures and counting). This is the cut of the film I’m guessing Clive and his people would prefer you never saw:
http://www.spreadingtheplague.com/
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/plague/
Who knows? Maybe all of Clive’s films will have grassroots campaigns to fight the powers that be. You go, Clive!
Comment by Hal Masonberg — June 21, 2008 @ 9:57 am
But Hal..A different cut of THE PLAGUE isn’t going to make the performances less stilted, is it? Everyone in the film had an incredibly blank expression for the entire running time. After a while my own expression started to mirror theirs. I know it’s the end of the world and all, but c’mon!
If you actually think that Clive Barker was in the editing room re-cutting THE PLAGUE you are sorely mistaken. His name was contractually obligated to be in front of the title even though he, and everyone else, hated the final cut of the movie.
Comment by David — June 22, 2008 @ 8:27 am
I saw the Plague and can concur - there is no “saving” that movie. Nothing happens. The acting is atrocious. For some reason it was shot on widescreen 35 mm film but framed like a TV movie.
I hoped and prayed that all the characters would hurry up and die so I could wash my brain of the hackneyed imagery. Sorry Bill Butler, not your fault and certainly nothing color timing could correct.
Comment by ouch — June 22, 2008 @ 2:49 pm
I assure you Clive and Jorge Saralegui were re-editing the film from scratch. I was there trying to save the film. And I’m afraid to say that a performance can be made or destroyed in the editing room. THE PLAGUE that you saw was re-edited frame for frame. Every performance, every scene was drained of life. I know it’s hard for a lot of people to understand just how powerful editing is. It’s the difference between telling a story with passion or telling it in a monotone voice. Many, MANY of the takes used and chosen by the producers were NOT the takes used and preferred by myself or the actors. Also, THE PLAGUE was never intended to be a Clive Barker-type horror film. That’s just a very different audience. A great audience, but THE PLAGUE -in any form- is not what that audience expects from Clive. His name was contractually obligated to be on the film, yes, as Clive Barker presents, but it was Clive and Jorge who actively kept us out of the editing room and re-cut the film. They are responsible for the film that’s out there. But, of course, I can’t convince anyone that the Writers & Director’s Cut is a totally different experience with totally different takes of the actors, structurally different, and far more frightening than the producers’ cut. But I do suggest you take a look at Christian Divine’s review of the Director’s Cut: http://www.christiandivine.com/DVDDay.htm
and also listen to Dee Wallace on Movie Geeks United:
http://www.spreadingtheplague.com/Text/DeeMGU.html
Listen to filmmaker Janice Findley who was in the editing room WHILE THEY WERE RECUTTING THE FILM: http://www.spreadingtheplague.com/Text/Janice.htm
That’s just for starters. If you’re genuinely interested, you’ll be hearing a lot more very soon.
Thanks again,
Hal Masonberg
Comment by Hal Masonberg — June 23, 2008 @ 9:01 am
I’ve seen the director’s cut of the Plague and it is scary as hell. The imagery is so stylish and chilling. It is also well acted. I loved it and the film has stayed with me. I’m an editor and I can say that two totally different movies can come from the same raw footage.
Comment by Caren — June 23, 2008 @ 2:28 pm
Someone please cure the Plague. I’m sick of hearing about it. This director has been pushing his cut for the last three years… nobody cares. I worked at Sony when this DVD was released, I can assure everyone, Clive Barker had nothing to do with this film. He saw the director’s cut, hated it, walked away and never saw another cut of the movie ever again.
Comment by CurethePlague — June 23, 2008 @ 6:44 pm
I appreciate your comments, Curetheplague. And I’m afraid you’re mistaken on several counts. One, the cut of the film Clive saw that you refer to as the Director’s Cut was not that at all. It was a cut put together by myself and Clive’s producer, Anthony DiBlasi, to try and meet both Clive’s needs and Screen Gems notes. There were 14 producers in all and we tried to incorporate everyone’s wishes. Anthony DiBlasi assured me that Clive would love this cut, even though I had already made some major concessions and the film was still in a very rough assembly form. When Clive hated it, Anthony DiBlasi was stunned and shared his immense surprise and confusion with me by stating that it felt to him as if Clive had never read the script. However, I know he had as I had discussed it with him during pre-production. I returned to the editing room several times to try and save the film and was met with some pretty incredible violence on the part of Jorge Saralegui and Clive’s other producers. They were re-cutting the film frame for frame into what Saralegui called “a killer kid film”. The Writers & Director’s Cut was put together by me AFTER being removed from the film. It is the version of the film intended by the writers, director and actors. Does that make it better? Not necessarily. But that does, I assure you, make it VERY different. Clive did not walk away. Nor did he not see another cut of the film. I’m pretty sure that Clive would have preferred his name to not be on any cut, but I promise you, the cut that’s out there is the way it is because of him and his producers.
As for my continued fight… Yeah, even I get tired of it. I would love nothing more than for this cut to be released and the struggle to end. Hopefully that will happen soon. But when you believe in something and it means more to you than a paycheck or a career boost, you fight for it. I also made a promise to the actors and many others involved that this would not be your typical horror film or a slasher pic, that this would be something stronger, something deeper. I’m still fighting to keep that promise. For as long as it takes.
Thanks for your comments.
Hal Masonberg
Writer/Director THE PLAGUE: WRITERS & DIRECTOR’S CUT
Comment by Hal Masonberg — June 24, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
I would also have you take a listen to Seattle filmmaker, Janice Findley’s interview. Janice was both on set AND in the editing room while Clive’s producers were re-cutting the film.
http://www.spreadingtheplague.com/Text/Janice.htm
Also Dee Wallace’s comments:
http://www.spreadingtheplague.com/Text/DeeMGU.html
Comment by Hal Masonberg — June 24, 2008 @ 1:04 pm
Hal, no offense, but this page is supposed to be about Midnight Meat Train, not The Plague. I understand how, both being Barker-related productions, you are using this thread to discuss/promote your recut of Plague, but it’s moving the comments away from discussion over Meat Train and into your personal propaganda. Maybe that’s your goal, or maybe you’re caught up in discussion over a project you care passionately about…either way, can we please get back to discussing Meat Train, since that’s why people are reading the article and comments?
Comment by Brimmer — June 27, 2008 @ 8:42 am
Well understood. And no offense taken. My initial post was to, yes, spread awareness about THE PLAGUE, but also to point out a possible trend in Clive Barker’s approach to producing films and to raise the question as to whether he’s a victim here or the actual perpetrator. This possibility is certainly suggested by above comments by tf, Frank B (who has apparently seen Meat Train) and some others. My continued comments came in response to comments by David, ouch and Curetheplague. However, I certainly urge people to continue their discussion of Midnight Meat Train. And Clive Barker.
Comment by Hal Masonberg — June 27, 2008 @ 9:18 pm
…all i can say is. this is the sort of movie me and my friends would have gone to see on a lark. we saw the trailer…and were those people laughing. but sometimes an absurd movie is just what the doctor ordered.
be a shame if they shelve this.
…maybe i read the original posting wrong. but really would’ve been nice to have a link…towards sending a note to lionsgate. if you were an interested party.
…a movie like “midnight meat train” is just silly enough to be an entertaining movie outing. and with the state of affairs of most movies… entertaining is sometimes all you can hope for.
torture porn or no.
Comment by stephen — June 28, 2008 @ 6:30 pm
i mean you do know that midnight meat train is free this month on fearnet on demand
Comment by kris-alyx devereux — October 6, 2008 @ 12:10 am