The AMPTP just issued this statement today:
The members of the Directors Guild of America have ratified the sensible labor agreement we concluded. Our negotiations with DGA proved beyond any doubt that when both parties are prepared to bargain seriously, groundbreaking new media labor pacts can be reached without resorting to harmful and unnecessary strikes.
How is that gloating? It seems fairly straightforward–at least towards the DGA.
Now, if the statement read “The members of the sensible labor agreement we concluded–SUCKERS” that would be gloating.
Or “The members of the Directors Guild of America have ratified the sensible labor agreement we concluded, whereas the WGA cost their members 3 months of work by negotiating with AMPTP instead of CEOs while we force majured everyone” that would be gloating.
But what they did say isn’t gloating. Only Nikki’s title is gloating
Comment by Sarcastic Cynic — February 20, 2008 @ 4:23 pm
Well yes, I suppose it is easier to negotiate a contract with a flock of picket-line crossers than with the actual picketers.
Just more AMPTP propaganda.
Comment by writer bob — February 20, 2008 @ 4:25 pm
I think she’s considering it “gloating” because there is definitely a smug overtone about the AMPTP’s success in this matter, while referencing, with malignant pleasure the failings of the bargaining with the WGA.
Look up “gloat” and maybe you’ll have a better idea of what the word means. Nikki’s title is certainly NOT gloating, in this case.
Comment by jesus — February 20, 2008 @ 4:31 pm
“…especially when a third-party is doing the striking for the DGA, making it possible for them to avoid the usual ‘don’t taze me bro!’ negotiating position.”
They edited that part out.
Comment by Simon Jester — February 20, 2008 @ 4:34 pm
Gosh, if the AMPTP is so happy about the DGA deal, then they must be pissing in their pants gleeful at the bag of shit the WGA accepted…
Well, I’m still voting an emphatic “NO!” on the lousy offer. And I know I’m in the minority, but I doing it anyway. I just hope more members wake up and smell the manure before it’s too late.
Comment by Jake Hollywood — February 20, 2008 @ 4:42 pm
Doesn’t seem like gloating, but really - I don’t care.
One strike averted, one potentially settled and one more to go that may or may not go well.
Anyone heard the result of the SAG/AFTRA Washington meeting? If so, url please??
Comment by Sy lrsdy iy'd obrt — February 20, 2008 @ 4:46 pm
The key being “when both parties are ready to negotiate seriously…”
The AMPTP left the table… kind of hard to negotiate with the WGA when you aren’t there and it’s easy to see which side is “serious.”
Stay at the table instead of hiring PR firms.
Comment by brightside — February 20, 2008 @ 4:48 pm
Ooh, ouch.
What a bunch of asses.
Comment by Jane — February 20, 2008 @ 4:56 pm
I am so done with all this attitude. Everyone should just grow up already. You, too, Nikki. Fanning the flames of a rich people’s revolution is unbecoming and tiresome. If it weren’t for the “moguls,” none of us would be working in the industry. The writers have always whined — always. That’s one of their jobs. And I love writers, but that’s the way it is.
Comment by aitchee — February 20, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
Actually it is clearly gloating and is clearly correct.
“,,,when both parties are prepared to bargain seriously, groundbreaking new media labor pacts can be reached without resorting to harmful and unnecessary strikes.”
The WGA was prepared to bargain seriously from the start. The other party, the AMPTP (under the God-awful leadership of Nick Counter,) was not. When Nick Counter was pushed out of the pitcure, and saner heads came in to lead the AMPTP shockingly, a deal was quickly made.
Comment by George Glass — February 20, 2008 @ 5:23 pm
Don’t think we’ve forgotten, Les…
Comment by Danzig — February 20, 2008 @ 5:54 pm
Why is it we can only comment on union or strike-related posts? Come on now.
Comment by Man of Comments — February 20, 2008 @ 6:02 pm
Wow, petulant even by AMPTP standards. Sounds like somebody’s a little miffed Messrs. Chernin and Iger gave him a pat on the head and made him stand in the corner while the real power negotiated with the WGA…
Comment by Ashley Gable — February 20, 2008 @ 6:03 pm
I honestly don’t see gloating, although in fairness I must disclose again that I am an AD member of the DGA.
I object to writer bob’s characterization of DGA members as picket line crossers, as it is both inaccurate and mean spirited. The DGA members of the show I worked on, from the AD’s up through the directors, refused to cross any picket line from the time the strike began. Granted, we were only working for a week and a half before we were all sidelined, but at no point did any of us cross that line, even when the writers from our show appeared on location and picketed our base camp/crew parking starting at 430AM.
The result of our honoring of the picket lines has been to see our show ended for the season, with a minimal pickup for next season not starting until June or July. Since we had 13 episodes unfilmed at the time we were stopped, and since those episodes have been erased by the network, our crew and DGA members have effectively lost upwards of 5 1/2 months of work which will not be replaced. To then accuse us of being strikebreakers is to add insult to injury.
Comment by Kevin — February 20, 2008 @ 6:38 pm
Nick Counter takes great pride in trying to diss the awful horrid recalcitrant commie organizers aka those lousy stinking writers by boasting how easily the far more important but also far more insecure directors knuckled under to the producers demands just so they could wear their fancy tuxedos to the Oscars.
Comment by Anonymous — February 20, 2008 @ 6:53 pm
Nikki is right on.
“Sarcastic Cynic,” you’re a simpleton with comments that contribute nothing.
“Aitchee,” - gotta love people who use the phrase “grow up” and “whiny” when they don’t like what someone says. Pot, kettle.
Comment by mp exec — February 20, 2008 @ 7:24 pm
@Jake Hollywood: nice to see someone not following the herd mentality.
Comment by Chris — February 20, 2008 @ 7:26 pm
No disrespect intended towards actual DGA members, Kevin, but DGA leadership, for going ahead with their own negotiations while we were still on strike.
Comment by writer bob — February 20, 2008 @ 8:00 pm
I don’t view AMPTP’s statement as gloating either. It’s just B.S. spin.
AMPTP’s statement is no different than:
“Let me now address an issue which I know is on the minds of many — our decision to remove DVD from the table, a decision which was met with significant disappointment and even anger from many of our members. The reason for that decision was strategic and followed several back-channel assurances that, if DVDs were dropped, we would be able to make sufficient progress in new media so that a strike could be averted. This offer, combined with our desire to do everything within our power to make a good deal without a strike (by removing management’s strike issue), as well as some small movement at the bargaining table early on Sunday, provoked our decision to make that move. Unfortunately, the response we got was not as promised and management broke off talks before our new media proposals were seriously addressed. Our new comprehensive proposal (including the DVD removal) was presented in an off-the-record session: our new proposal was then rejected. Based on what I saw and heard on the picket lines today, therefore, all bets are off and what we achieve in this negotiation will be a function of how much we are willing to fight to get our fair share of the residuals of the future, no matter how they are delivered.” - Patrick Verrone
I will state one difference between AMPTP’s statements and the WGA’s.
AMPTP doesn’t remove its press releases because they provide a historical record of stupidity.
Check for yourself in the WGA’s 2007 archive. Verrone’s comment about dropping the DVD proposal (which was a shortened excerpt from what is above) is gone. Soon it will be like there was never a DVD proposal at all.
I’ll give AMPTP credit for standing by its “assholishness.” The WGA, on the other hand, is attempting revise its history.
There will be additional historical “corrections” by the WGA to make the strike appear successful in the future by revising what was originally contained in WGA proposals.
Hey! Looks like the WGA contract was an amazing product of skillful negotiation after all!
Patrick Verrone, you’re a pus-filled gonorrheic penis.
Even John Wells took his lumps. He does additional things AFTER THE FACT in an attempt to make himself look better. He doesn’t attempt to revise what he already did.
Comment by Harold — February 20, 2008 @ 8:13 pm
@Kevin: YOU object? I OBJECT! To those pansy-assed directors who took the easy way out, agreeing to a deal when their contract wasn’t even up for another six months, and who undercut the WGA writer every fucking chance they get. I object to those directors who claim story credit on a film they can’t even spell the title of, let alone not having anything at all to do with writing the script. But I resent even more your indignation at being called a scab and denying that directors crossed the picket line. You and I both know that’s a fucking lie–because we both know that some did. Insult to injury indeed.
@Chris: Thanks, I think. I’m pretty sure no one will ever accuse me of having my wool sweater pulled up over my eyes.
Comment by jake Hollywood — February 20, 2008 @ 8:14 pm
Wow. This is… WOW.
Amazing. The strike is over and yet for some reason the AMPTP felt the need to publicly give the WGA the finger. “Immature” doesn’t even come close to covering it. I truly wish it did.
Comment by Marc Guggenheim — February 20, 2008 @ 9:06 pm
aitchee — “If it weren’t for the moguls, none of us would be working in this industry.”
… and if it weren’t for the writers, there wouldn’t be an industry for the moguls to work in.
Comment by K — February 20, 2008 @ 9:26 pm
Word inside Fox this afternoon was that Chernin was LIVID at that statement and did NOT see it beforehand.
Comment by current man — February 20, 2008 @ 10:18 pm
writer bob, I disagree with you that the DGA leadership was crossing picket lines by starting their negotiations. They held off on doing so for more than 2 months, specifically saying in public that they were giving the WGA and the AMPTP every chance they could to find a way to settle the strike and come up with a new contract. When it was clear that the AMPTP was not going to return to the table, and that the WGA was prepared to stay out for several months longer, the DGA did what it could to break the impasse. The result is that both guilds now have new contracts and the strike is over. You can argue that the DGA got additional leverage because the WGA had gone out. But saying that the negotiations were a form of strike breaking doesn’t make sense. If we followed that logic, the strike would be continuing all the way to the summer and beyond.
Jake Hollywood, let me first say that I understand and respect your anger, since my understanding of your posts here and elsewhere is that you are a working member of the WGA and, understandably, you disagree with this deal and are voting against it. I can respect that, since you very much have something at stake here. But I still disagree with you, and my post certainly did not earn the vitriolic response you gave it. I disagree with you that the directors are pansies or that they “took the easy way out”. The DGA was preparing for these negotiations for over 18 months with the study you’re aware of, and with months and months of planning for what everyone knew would be a difficult series of discussions. The DGA has negotiated early for the past 20 years, specifically to avoid the problems we run into every time the contracts come up and the whole industry goes into overdrive and creates a de-facto strike once the contract is done. (as happened in 2001, for example) This is not a matter of undercutting other guilds, although I understand you may disagree with that.
Your post indicates you have some issues with directors taking story credits. Which directors do you mean, the ones that can’t even spell the names of their films? I have worked both in features and in television. On one feature, the director wrote the script. On another, the director actually co-wrote the script with the credited screenwriter and the two of them collaborated on set. On every television series I have worked, the directors have deferred to the writers, since they are the producers of the show and usually outrank the directors. So our experiences sound a bit different from each other.
As for your next comment, you are incorrect to refer to me or the DGA team I worked with as scabs, and I’ll be happy to read your apology for that. Unless “scab” now also applies to people who don’t cross picket lines and then potentially lose their livelihoods over the following six months while they wait for the strike to end, and then for their show to return. I don’t deny that there are some individual directors and some individual ADs who crossed WGA picket lines. I objected to what I saw as a blanket statement characterizing DGA members as picket line crossers, when that wasn’t my experience or that of my team. writer bob has clarified his intentions there, and I have responded to that. And I stand by my objection, regardless of your resentment of it. I should note that in addition to the individuals who crossed the picket lines from the DGA, there were also individuals who crossed from all levels of the crew, including the Teamsters, and including members of the WGA. I hope that you’re able to acknowledge that. But I don’t issue blanket condemnations for all those guilds and unions, and I would hope in the aftermath of this strike that even the hardliners would learn to similarly refrain from that.
Comment by Kevin — February 21, 2008 @ 2:31 am
Writer Bob and Jake Hollywood — you two are jerk-offs. Ever hear of the ‘no sympathy strike’ aspect of almost all contracts in this town? And why shouldn’t the DGA negotiate regardless of how much is left of their previous deal? Since the genius brain trust at the WGA was doing so well bargaining why shouldn’t the DGA look out for their own interests? Here’s the bottom line folks — the AMPTP knew the WGA was angling for a strike waaaay before anybody started talking. The AMPTP (who are major greedy assholes) started negotiating with the WGA knowing it would fall apart. Yes, they wanted to deal with the DGA all along. No, the DGA didn’t roll over and it’s impossible to quantify how much, if at all, the WGA being on strike made a DGA deal easier. I tend to think not. I defy you to tell me how the new WGA and DGA pacts differ in any way not related to job description. They are virtually identical. What started out as a just and meaningful strike became an exercise in ego and futility that saw general WGA membership (mostly) blindly follow their leadership off the cliff of wasted time, money and opportunity.
Comment by Frustrated Worker — February 21, 2008 @ 8:19 am
Kevin….
Just one example of DGA crossing a picket line….JJ Abrams, Director and member of the WGA… can you say “Star Trek”. I do believe there were picket lines at Paramount. But, I’m sure there weren’t any re-writes going on, I’m sure the script was shot “as is”, yea, right. The DGA wasn’t on strike, so they had every right to work….. just don’t act as though everyone supported the writers.
I think this statement from the AMPTP, shows how much these studios don’t care about ANY of our unions, or ANY of the people who work so hard to make their product. I find this statement to be a slap in the face to the WGA. I think the writers are the most important element in the process of what we create. I think they got screwed, the WGA talks about new media, but the new ticket is “Blue Ray”, so hows that 4cents per DVD working out for you? I see all this arrogance and I want to scream. I have this fantasy that the next time a union is getting screwed by the AMPTP, that every person just walks out, no matter which union you belong to, no matter if you have a no strike clause…just walk out…all of us. I remember the day when you would get whatever you needed to do your job… well, those days are gone.
O.K., I’m done ranting
Comment by btl teamster — February 21, 2008 @ 10:40 am
As usual, you nailed it dead on Nikki!
Comment by I love Nikki — February 21, 2008 @ 10:47 am
jake Hollywood said:
@Kevin: YOU object? I OBJECT! To those pansy-assed directors who took the easy way out, agreeing to a deal when their contract wasn’t even up for another six months, and who undercut the WGA writer every fucking chance they get. I object to those directors who claim story credit on a film they can’t even spell the title of, let alone not having anything at all to do with writing the script. But I resent even more your indignation at being called a scab and denying that directors crossed the picket line. You and I both know that’s a fucking lie–because we both know that some did. Insult to injury indeed.
So, Jake, what i hear you saying is that you, and the WGA are victims. VIctims of the AMPTP, the IATSE, the DGA, the Gov’t, the economy, victims of pretty much anything except for the misguided policies of the WGA leadership.
Early negotiations have been going on for years. In fact the WGA started them. To feign surprise that the DGA entered into and completed negotiations prior to their contract expiration is amateur hour. To have expected them to wait until the WGA came to some kind of resolution w/ the AMPTP is just plain bizarre, unless there had been some kind of agreement stating that the DGA would, prior to the WGA striking. Same thing as far as support from the IATSE and other BTL unions, to show up on the picket line and expect any kind of support from unions under contract, w/ no strike clauses, WITHOUT first reaching out to those unions is asinine. To blame anyone but yourselves is even worse.
To claim to be victims of the AMPTP is just as odd, since the WGA decided to not start negotiations early, but instead waited to minutes before the contract expired, and since both parties were at the table when the WGAe left negotiations by beginning their strike.
The WGA unilaterally took on the AMPTP, trying to force major advances and changes, without having nearly the leverage to succeed. To blame anyone else for that is just plain silly.
Comment by Dan — February 21, 2008 @ 3:07 pm
btl teamster, you hit the nail on the head. much as the WGA members have argued that this was a strike for “all of us” (and as an indie producer, i don’t even have a selfishly motivated guild to promote my interests, so i’m mostly jealous of writers) there never was a real ahead-of-time effort to make this strike universal.
of course, per your comment, a true universal walk-out (one i would have joined even from my precarious perch as an indie) would have SHUT THE TOWN DOWN. and we would all have been in the same boat, fighting to make a rising tide lift us all. but that was never what this was. it was simple: a group of people in hollywood (and an indispensable one) tried to get some more “feather their own nest” money from the greedy bastards who own the town. that’s it. it’s not exactly Matewan, now is it? i for one don’t really get why anyone would think anything else. the WGA fought for its members, and if there were other casualties along the way, fuck it, c’est la guerre. given this, it is the height of inept illogical stupidity to complain that the DGA did the same thing–looked after their own. dude, you’re a teamster. you are in a real union. you guys do this the right way. you’re in the wrong town if you think anyone else is going to give a shit about you.
Comment by robert green — February 21, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
This isn’t about “sympathy strikes,” Frusto, ol’ buddy. What the DGA did by jumping in six months early and negotiating when they did was nothing less than undermine the strike action of another union. It’s a betrayal of one of the fundamental labor organizing principles — fellow unions are expected to support each other.
And I’d be careful with the name-calling. It has no impact on me, but it exposes you as incapable of sticking to the actual points of an argument. Plus, I’m waaay bigger than you.
Comment by Writer Bob — February 21, 2008 @ 4:38 pm
btl teamster, as I said before, I wasn’t making a blanket statement that every single member of the DGA, WGA or even of the Teamsters honored the picket lines. I was objecting to the blanket statement that sounded like someone thought that every member of the DGA was crossing the picket lines. writer bob clarified that he did not in fact mean that. Such a blanket statement would be as incorrect as saying that since JJ Abrams crossed the picket lines at Paramount, that therefore the WGA members could be described en masse as people crossing their own picket lines. Calling the DGA and its members a bunch of names does not change the fact that on my show, the DGA team really did honor the picket lines, all the way up to the director of the episode in progress at the time. A blanket condemnation ignores the people that were trying to do the honorable thing. As for supporting the strike, that’s a different matter. You don’t have to agree with a strike to honor a picket line.
I agree that the no-strike clause in all of our contracts is truly an albatross. I asked our negotiating team to move ahead with the same conscience clause that the Teamsters have, but my request was clearly not followed. I was similarly hoping to see the WGA go for that clause, but that was apparently not done. The only movement I saw in that respect was an attempt to remove the no-strike clause itself, which hasn’t been a possibility for any other guild or union in this town.
Comment by Kevin — February 21, 2008 @ 4:47 pm
Writer Bob, I need to ask if you have a response to my comments to you. What would have been your solution given that no negotiations were taking place, or were likely to take place any time in the near future? By opening negotiations, the DGA broke through the impasse between the AMPTP and the WGA and established a pattern that could be followed by the other guilds, one that establishes distributor’s gross as a basis for residuals. The result is that the strike is over and many writers are now back to work. Would you have preferred to stay on strike through the summer? Would that have gotten the WGA a better deal somehow? I’m assuming that like Jake, you have a regular WGA job you’re returning to, or have already resumed. Keep in mind that for many of us, our jobs have simply disappeared for the duration. (And this has nothing to do with being prepared for a couple of months of unemployment per the usual hiatuses. I don’t know too many people who prepare to be unemployed for upwards of six months at a time.)
The DGA was under no obligation to hold off on its negotiations, but it did so for two months out of respect for our sister guild, as Michael Apted publicly stated. Once it was clear that negotiations were not going to be happening with the WGA, the DGA stepped in. This wasn’t to undermine the WGA strike, and to my understanding, it did not do that. In fact, many WGA members have publicly stated here and at United Hollywood that they believe that the DGA benefited from the leverage of the WGA strike, and that the WGA in turn benefited from the DGA leverage. Michael Apted made clear that the DGA had waited as long as it could, but it could not jeopardize its own membership any further by waiting on the sidelines. When the talks started, several hardline WGA members here, at United Hollywood, and on several of their own blogs, made comments that they anticipated that the DGA talks might break down due to the intransigence of the AMPTP. When the talks instead quickly led to a new contract, many of those same voices made comments that the DGA must have sold out. (Note the same premise fueling both sets of comments - the AMPTP won’t make a good deal, therefore the DGA will either walk out of the talks or they’ll “fold like pup tents.”) What about the possibility that the DGA may simply have prepared well for the negotiations and been able to secure a new contract in spite of the obvious challenges? It again saddens me to hear the anger of the hardliners continuing. When my show finally does come back up, it will be hard enough for us all to try to work together without that.
Comment by Kevin — February 21, 2008 @ 6:10 pm
Writer bob says:
It’s a betrayal of one of the fundamental labor organizing principles — fellow unions are expected to support each other.
I’m sorry, Writer bob, but that’s pure unmitigated bullshit.
What about fundamental labor organizing principles such as not raiding the jurisdiction of other unions? The WGA has spent the last 3 years trying to organize bargaining unites that, right or wrong, are traditionally covered by the IATSE, animation and editors.
And, as I noted earlier, in our industry, a ‘labor principle’ has been early negotiations to attempt to ensure continuing work. No matter how the WGA and it’s supporters decide to parse the new contract, IATSE members that work in the episodic TV market will never recoup the money they lost during the last three months.
Contrary to conventional wisdom here and at UH.com, a large portion of IATSE membership work steadily, logging 45 -50 weeks a year, either on TV shows and pilots, or like myself, going from one movie to another. It is NOT common to be out of work for 3 months.
You want unified industry unions? then, best reach out to them, not shit on them and/or raid their members. The leaderships of each union, at best, answer to their members, not the members of other unions.
Comment by dan — February 21, 2008 @ 6:13 pm
you know what’s “pure unmitigated bullshit”, dan, and others?
it’s spouting off on this and other forums anonymously. if you are trying to poison our town for the foreseeable future, where all of us are wondering “is that the guy who said that really vicious thing?” than by all means, continue to post anonymously. and dan, i don’t mean to call you out–everyone (other than a few bloggers and as far as i can tell only me in comments thereon) does it. and it sucks. my imdb page is easy to find–look under “robert green”.
otherwise, dan, i think your analysis is spot on. kevin as well.
writer bob, if you are so big, do tell–what are you working on these days?
Comment by Robert Green — February 21, 2008 @ 6:26 pm
@ Kevin:
Since you’re a little hung up on being singled out–but how could I do that since I really don’t know who the fuck you are–I’ll clarify:
Every union cocksucker who crossed a picket line is a scab. Period. I’ll exclude those BTL folks who would’ve surely been fired for not crossing the line to do their job because I understand just how much a paycheck means to you (though you have to wonder If nobody went to work how quickly a contract would’ve been in the offing)–however, for those two assholes who were on their way to work and tried to run my ass over while picketing (yeah, they were BTL people), anytime, anyplace motherfuckers. Just get out of the car…
Who am I’m ranting at? Writers, directors, and actors–if you’re in a Guild, you had a choice. And you made the wrong one, if you crossed the picket line, in my opinion.
There are writers–writers I know personally–who refused to picket, who had secret meetings with studios, who did scab writing–some of whom were close friends and associates, I’ll never speak or work with them again in any capacity. I find scabbing to be that personally offensive. There were directors and actors who crossed the line to work, which I find to be a indirect level of “scabbing.”
All I know is, if SAG goes on strike I won’t cross their line (in fact, I’ll walk beside them). If by some miracle, come next contract the DGA goes on strike I’ll walk beside them–even if, overall, I find their leadership gutless.
I know that no one can force me to go against my conscience. No studio, no member of my own Guild, no individual. When I look at myself, I want to be able to say to myself, and to anybody else who cares, that I stood up for the right principle. And scabbing, whatever form it takes, is the wrong principle. And I’ll never do it.
Kevin, I don’t know you personally or maybe I do, but I’ll say this to you: if you’re offended by my “blanket inclusion” regarding my definition of scabbing, then so be it. Only you know if you scabbed in the technical sense or not. But in my mind if you crossed a picket line and worked, and you had a choice not to, that makes you a scab. The choice made makes all the difference.
Comment by jake Hollywood — February 21, 2008 @ 6:46 pm
@Frustrated Worker: Jerk-off? Is that the best name-calling you can do? I’m disappointed in you. Give me your address and I’ll send you a dictionary and a thesaurus. You can look up some really cool insulting words to toss around. I look forward to your new vocabulary skills.
Re: this gem re the DGA/WGA contracts — They are virtually identical. After you get the dictionary, look up “virtually,” please FW? I’m pretty sure you’ll discover that “virtually identical” is “virtually” impossible.
Make no mistake though, FW, both deals are crap. It’s just that the DGA deserves it and the WGA didn’t want to be left out of the taking shit department so the leadership settled before they had to. I’m guessing SAG won’t be so stupid.
Comment by jake Hollywood — February 21, 2008 @ 7:24 pm
Just one more reason this writer is glad to have voted NO.
Hope I have plenty of company.
Comment by lb — February 21, 2008 @ 10:19 pm
Kevin, as far as the “impasse” was concerned, the correct “solution” for the DGA was to stay out of our shit. Period.
“Many WGA members have publicly stated here and at United Hollywood that they believe that the DGA benefited (sic) from the leverage of the WGA strike.” Well, yeah, under the circumstances, what else could they say?
Dan, our organizing proposals in animation only extended to writers not currently covered by a union contract. There was no encroachment on IATSE’s Animation Guild territory — having said which, animation writers should ultimately be allowed to choose which of the two unions (or both) to join.
Robert, since you asked, I’m currently doing a Page 1 rewrite on one film and a polish on another, neither of which I’m the original writer of. Deadlines are tight thanks to the strike, so the odds are good I won’t be rewritten before shooting. By the same token, I won’t get a final crack at a script I did originate, which is painful. In my spare time I’m practicing Tae Kwan Do and bike-training for this summer’s San-Francisco-to-L.A. AIDS ride.
It’s easy enough with the info I just gave you to find me through WGA circles, but given all the lingering animosity I choose not to abandon my anonymity further — I’m listed in the phone book, for crying out loud.
I agree with Jake; the 2008 MBA is a crap deal and should be rejected, however unlikely that possibility seems now. But if by some miracle it doesn’t pass, the WGA has shown strength enough that negotiations could be reopened without resuming the strike, something I hope my fellow writers are aware of as they vote.
Comment by Writer Bob — February 21, 2008 @ 11:09 pm
dan, the WGA has spent years trying to organize bargaining units that don’t want to be covered by IATSE and would prefer to work under the WGA contract (just ask ‘em). I’m sure many IATSE members are really happy, but many others kind of would love to be represented by a union that has a strike fund and whose leader doesn’t have his lips surgically attached to AMPTP members’ asses (unfortunately for the most part that’s impossible due to jurisdictional issues, but I hope they get liberated from their own sucky leaders, no one deserves being stuck in that position). It’s not a matter of poaching, it’s a matter of wanting to work under a union contract that benefits them, not the AMPTP and their favorite stooge.
Comment by Yeahwell — February 22, 2008 @ 12:58 am
Jake Hollywood, I’m not completely certain how to handle the additional vitriol in your response. Do you really need to know my exact identity, since you have not revealed yours? And since your position is an above the line one, whereas mine is below the line, it sounds like you are asking me to risk my career while you pontificate about it. So I’ll stand by to hear exactly who you are and what your credits are before I expose myself to potential major career jeopardy.
You sound like you don’t like BTL people, of which I am one, as a DGA AD, as you already know. For myself, I only know that I never crossed a picket line in my life, including the WGA ones that existed for the week and a half that my television series filmed during the first two weeks of the strike. And I know that nobody on my DGA team crossed the WGA line, and this included a day where the picket line followed us to location. Your judgment on this appears to condemn us all as what you perceive as “scabs” if we weren’t walking your picket line, rather than simply refusing to cross it. I can’t tell - your anger over this issue makes it hard for me to tell your position. But calling people from any guild names tends to detract from your ability to maintain a logical position. What I do know is that the end result is that my entire DGA team has lost what will amount to about six months of work while we honored your picket lines, and this income will never come back. And by way of thanks, I can now enjoy the insults you have piled upon the injuries thrust upon my staff.
Writer Bob, you still have not provided a solution other than telling the DGA not to negotiate their contract. Please tell me what your solution was to the fact that no negotiations were happening between the WGA and the AMPTP. Or would you have preferred that the strike simply continue for the next five to eight months while everyone tried to find a way to save face? As you know, the DGA was not involved in your business. The DGA was trying to negotiate its own contract, and held off for over two months out of respect for the WGA. When it became clear that no negotiations were forthcoming, the DGA did what it had to do to protect its members. Please read Michael Apted’s statements again if there is any confusion for you. You still have not addressed my questions, and I am still waiting for your response.
And I’m sure you’re aware that if the WGA were to reject the current offer, we’re looking at a labor stoppage that would extend all the way into and past the summer. You still have not responded to my question of whether this is your intention.
I appreciate your support for the AIDS Ride - I have sponsored riders in it several times in the past, but cannot this year due to the lost income from the strike. And I appreciate that you are being paid to rewrite other WGA members as we speak. I am currently waiting to hear when I may be employed again - a delay that will likely extend for the next three months, thus extending the work stoppage for me for upwards of six months when I could have been employed for most of that time.
I appreciate your correction of my spelling, almost as much as Harlan Ellison appreciated the correction given to him at United Hollywood. But you still did not address my questions with anything other than vitriol. Like I said, when we finally return to work on my show, the situation is going to be uncomfortable enough without hardliners from either side trying to make the situation any more difficult. I hope that your on-set experience will tell you the same thing. If it doesn’t, that betrays an above-the-line attitude that can be quite counterproductive when we work to film the scripts that you write.
Comment by Kevin — February 22, 2008 @ 2:36 am
Jake Hollywood:
vir·tu·al·ly — for the most part; almost wholly; just about.
Random House Unabridged Dictionary
virtually — In fact or to all purposes; practically: Almost but not quite; nearly.
American Heritage Dictionary
Thanks for the union lesson WB. Did you or Jake H. speak up about your misgivings re the contract at the meeting at the Shrine? I didn’t observe any major opposition at that time. Why aren’t more WGAers being vocal about their problems with the agreement? Maybe you’re all too busy blaming everyone else for your “crap deal”.
Comment by Frustrated Worker — February 22, 2008 @ 8:03 am
Jake, have you noticed these guys’ practice of reasking the same questions you’ve just responded to, then criticizing you for never having answered their questions? Me too. Done playing now.
Comment by Writer Bob — February 22, 2008 @ 4:29 pm
@FW: very good. Now that you understand what “virtually” means, could you please explain how something could be “virtually Identical” (the operative word is “identical”)?
Did I speak up at the meeting? You probably missed it (I’ve done nothing but expressed my views on “the deal”), I mean, since I’m so quiet and all.
@Kevin: Really, I don’t actually care who you are. I’ve already stated, rather emphatically, too, I might add, my view of scabbing. But here’s a refresher: If there’s a picket line and you crossed it (and you’re in a union) you are a SCAB in my book. This may differ slightly in the technical sense (the rules are more forgiving than I am personally), which allow people to cross who aren’t actually part of the striking union. and if you didn’t cross the picket line, you’re not a scab. Got it?
Except…
You have admitted that you worked during the strike: And I know that nobody on my DGA team crossed the WGA line, and this included a day where the picket line followed us to location….Ummmmm…if you were followed by a picket line, doesn’t this mean you worked during the strike?
Ooooooo…I get it. You didn’t cross the picket line (and by default and your logical thinking process you’re not really a scab), it followed you, so how could you cross it, right?
Except…you were a scab (in my book anyway).
You’re seeking some sort of justification (look how much money I lost), doesn’t wash for me. I’ve already said what SCAB is in my book–and you qualify.
So, now every time I work with somebody named Kevin, they’ll be suspect. And it’s YOUR fault.
And, Kev? The DGA (of which I’m a member too–and yeah I’m against our deal too) leadership always acts in their own “best” interest. And Gil Cates (as I’ve said to him personally) can kiss my ass. The best thing that could happen to the DGA would be a change in leadership–some leadership with balls and who can see the BIG picture not its own myopic interest.
So we’re clear, Kev, since you’re so obviously confused, I didn’t criticize every member of the WGA, SAG, or the DGA–I just bitched about those individuals who crossed the picket line. It’s THOSE people who I (me, myself, I) consider SCABS. Technicalities aside, that is. So, if the band aid covers it, let thy scab weep.
@Writer Bob: Yep. These fuckers are exhausting.
Comment by Jake Hollywood — February 22, 2008 @ 8:36 pm
Writer Bob, the problem is that you actually haven’t been answering the questions I have asked you. Your only response was for the DGA to “stay out of our ****.” You still have not answered my question about how you would have suggested that the impasse be broken. You also have not answered my question about whether your preference would be for the strike to continue through the summer. So my comments stand - I’m still waiting to hear what you have to offer as a positive solution. That’s not an insult or a criticism - it’s a genuine request for a logical, non-vitriolic answer.
And while I don’t agree with the practice of name-calling by anyone, including Frustrated Worker, I think he has a genuine point. If this deal is so horrible, why wasn’t there an outcry at the Shrine to demand a better deal? Why has that outcry only appeared anonymously here or at United Hollywood, when it could have had a real effect at the meeting? I don’t think FW should be calling you or Jake names, and I agree with you that it’s both rude and doesn’t add to the discussion in any positive way.
On the same subject, I am continuing to await Jake’s apology for calling me a scab, particularly after I have repeatedly stated that my DGA team honored the WGA picket lines, even when the rest of our crew crossed them.
I don’t see this discussion as “playing”. This is quite serious business, and it has resulted in 150 people on my crew being unemployed for what will be at least 6 months for the vast majority by the time we get back to work. (I acknowledge that a small number will be able to get day assignments or land on this or that pilot, but most of our group has continued to be unemployed since we shut down in mid-November.)
Comment by Kevin — February 22, 2008 @ 8:55 pm
Jake, you’re clearly still quite angry, and the vitriol is continuing.
I completely disagree with your assessment of me and my crew, but I will not resort to the name-calling of which you seem to be fond. As I said, I respect that you and Bob are actually working WGA writers who actually have something at stake here rather than people cheering from the sidelines.
So we’re clear, the WGA put up their picket lines AFTER we had gotten to work for the final episode we finished after the strike began. So there was no line to cross. And when the line was put up on location, I and the other DGA members didn’t cross it. Instead, we parked outside and spent that part of the morning talking to the picketers (who were comprised of our own writers and producers.) The picket line was taken down within two hours of our crew call, and the picketers left the location. The shoot continued for another 12 hours or so with no picket line present at any point. So no, my team did not cross the line, however you wish to view it. And I get the impression that you don’t care about the collateral damage of lost wages and work - which is truly unfortunate if you really think that way. As a working writer-director, I cannot believe that you would dismiss your crew that easily.
You indicate that you now wish to hold every Kevin you ever work with as suspect. I truly hope that this is your anger speaking. If you are a writer-director that makes decisions on that small of a basis, that’s a truly unfortunate way to work. And I hear you that you don’t like Gil Cates or Michael Apted. I recommend that you vote Apted and the others down in the next DGA election, and better yet, that you run for office yourself. And I hear you that you’re not criticizing EVERY member of the guilds - although your own admission that you now find everyone named Kevin seems to contradict that.
If you’re truly that exhausted, I strongly recommend basing your arguments on reason rather than anger.
Comment by Kevin — February 22, 2008 @ 9:10 pm
Kev, Kev, Kev.
So, Kev, you’re still upset that in my opinion you’re a scab. and you’re awaiting my apology. Ummmmmm…I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you.
Read on:
I’m not angry, and my argument is based on reason. And here it is. Again. And Again.
MY VIEWS ON SCABBING: A person is in a union and let’s say they’re in a union (or a Guild), and that union is divided up according to job title. Now let’s say ONE of those guilds/unions goes on strike because they think they’ve been treated unfairly. Now let’s say the other two unions/guilds KNOW that that the first guild/union has gone on strike. And certain members of the other guild/union crosses the picket line (whether one is present or not, in a physical sense) to go to “work.” Now let’s say, they go to “work” because they want a paycheck, think they might get sued, disagree with the principle of the strike, etc. etc. etc. Pick a reason–doesn’t really matter–I’m sure justification is easy enough for some people.
Now let’s see how this idea applies to you and your situation. Ummmm…let’s see. There was strike and you knew about it. There was a picket line and you waited for it to disappear before crossing it. YOUR OWN ADMISSION PROVES THIS AS TRUE: So we’re clear, the WGA put up their picket lines AFTER we had gotten to work for the final episode we finished after the strike began.
You do see the words “picket line” and “strike” and “WGA” in that sentence, right Kev? You KNEW there a strike, right?
So maybe you’re not a scab according to the rule book. BUT we ain’t talking about any rule book. We’re talking about MY rule book. And in it you’re a SCAB. Easy enough to understand, right Kev?
I mean, I know you don’t like my rule book, but it is what it is. And you still want me to apologize? Ummmmm…no I won’t do that.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: if the roles were reversed, and the BTLers went on strike or Ralphs/Vons/Albertson or SAG or god-forgive the DGA (the earth would probably stop spinning if that happened), or anybody else, I WOULD NOT CROSS THEIR LINE either in practice or in spirit. I’m not built that way.
I wouldn’t do it even it meant losing my house, future employment, my car, and everything I own. I am no built that way. I’d shovel shit against the tide for a living, but I’d never cross a picket line and I wouldn’t support in any fashion anyone who did.
That’s just me.
And not to speak for WriterBob, but my answer as to what the DGA should’ve done re their contract: I would’ve waited (and consulted with) the WGA leadership (as opposed to being in management’s pocket) until they and SAG (who also have a stake in all of this) figured out their maximum leverage point and then went from there. BUT what I wouldn’t have done is allowed my people to sell out another Guild by undercutting <their negotiations, even if I disagreed with their methods. Especially if I had six months before my deal expired.
That’s just me, though.
As to dumping Cates and Apted - I’ll do my level best to unseat them.
And, Kev? All the Kevins are suspect now because of you. Since I don’t know you personally, I now have to look at every Kevin I run into as if they’re the one who knew there was a strike going on and tried to justify his behavior by saying that because the was no actual picket line present that it was okay to go to work and crossed the invisible line.
And, in my rule book anyway, that’s a big no-no and qualifies that person as a scab, even if in the technical sense they may not be a scab.
We’re talking about MY rules, since they’re the only ones I live by.
Got it now, Kev?
Comment by Jake Hollywood — February 22, 2008 @ 10:55 pm
Jake, first, you can do the courtesy of calling me by my name, which is Kevin, and not some shortening that you seem to enjoy using.
Second, you should know that I disagree with your assessment of this situation, and that your attempts at justification do not bear scrutiny. Your latest post only shows an additional amount of anger and vitriol. A review of your posts here and elsewhere shows that you have been repeatedly asked to deal with this, even by John August, to whom you admitted your issues in this area. I have only asked you to think logically, and instead you have responded with further anger. I regret that I may have inadvertantly provoked you into further expressions of this, but I had hoped that you would act with more rationality.
Apparently, according to your emotional appeal, I should have simply stayed home as soon as the WGA walked out on Sunday the 4th. The problem here has to do with both my assignment and the DGA contract, which, like the WGA contract and every other guild and union contract in Hollywood, contains a “no strike” clause. This means that guild and union members don’t get to choose what they will do without retaliation. I was certainly prepared to face that, as I told our showrunner and the head writers/producers of our series when I talked with them at the picket line on location. I was prepared to honor any picket line and did so by not crossing. But given that no picket line was present when I or my team arrived for work on the few days that we had before the show was shut down, I was never given the opportunity to make that choice. Under your feeling, I would apparently be compelled to simply not appear for work, given that the WGA had announced its intention to walk out. And by doing so, I would be violating my contract with with the DGA and subjecting myself to discipline for that, as well as other consequences from the DGA. Had a picket line been present for me to deal with, I would have instructed my superiors that the line simply couldn’t be crossed. But since no line was present, I couldn’t make that argument. And since there was no line to cross, I couldn’t tell my employer or my guild that I was unable to appear for work. This is simple logic, and it’s surprising that you are unable to grasp it. When the picket line appeared on location, I refused to cross it but instead spent the time talking with the writers and producers of our show, who were quite reasonable and understanding of everything that was happening. Had you been there, you could have seen this for yourself. (The picket line included several people who were not from our shows, but were similarly decent and friendly people who showed none of the rage you have demonstrated here.)
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I do not accept your practice of name calling and vitriol, particularly at this stage, when many other members of the WGA are trying to end this situation with a degree of calmness that you appear to not wish to demonstrate. From your prior posts, I understand that you have admitted that you have issues in this area and I understand that this may be a problem for you. Be aware that in spite of your attempts to bait or use name calling, I still refuse to follow suit. Instead, I continue to ask you to act with rationality and with regard to the idea that you will need to work with not only the AMPTP but also with other crew people who do not agree with your hardline position. If you are incapable of doing this, I strongly suggest that you rethink your choices.
Your blanket condemnation of everyone with my name is curious. You have not given your name. Further, your own blogs indicate that you do not work regularly in this business. Writing and directing the occasional indie film is a great opportunity, but it’s not quite the same thing as working regularly in the field of film or television. Your interactions indicate to me that your experience may not be what you have presented here and at United Hollywood. For the record, I have worked in the business as an AD since 1994, when I began as a DGA Trainee. I have worked in episodic television as a 2nd and 1st AD on a regular basis since 1996, following nearly 2 years of constant employment as a Trainee. I worked on one series for approximately seven of those years. When this strike began, I was employed on a network series which had been picked up for a full season but had that season foreshortened from 22 episodes to 9. I am told that we will be returning to work in another 3 months or so. When that happens, I will return to the set and continue to do my job. I need to ask, quite seriously, what you have been doing in this respect, and what you will be doing come June or July of this year. (I am following the advice of friends who are active SAG members on the various committees, who believe that negotiations with AMPTP will lead to a new contract before July rather than the strike for which the hardliners have been yearning.)
I understand now that your rule book precludes any of the logical arguments I have presented to you, and that you wish to continue on the path you have chosen. You are more than welcome to do so. I strongly hope that you will appear at the annual DGA meeting that will happen this May. As you should know, there is an open microphone period following the committee reports. I look forward to your public comments at that time, and I will be happy to speak with you as soon as you complete your statements to Michael Apted and Gil Cates. I ask only for a few minutes to discuss these matters with you in an open and friendly environment. If you truly are a WGA/DGA member who works regularly, this will not be any inconvenience.
Comment by Kevin — February 23, 2008 @ 2:43 am
@Kev….err…Kevin,
Frankly dude, you’re boring me.
Once again (and this seems really difficult for you to grasp) I’ll explain my view: Simple really. If there’s a strike and you’re in a guild/union and you cross the line, whether or not there’s actually a line present, then you’re a scab in my opinion. In my opinion being the operative phrase. You may not be a scab in the technical sense, but in my opinion (there’s that phrase again) you are. That’s just me.
Oh, and thank you for allowing me to have my very own opinion - it means sooooooo much to me that you give me your blessing.
I’ve NEVER missed a vote at any Guild meeting. I may not go to all the meetings (frankly those meetings full of people that like being self-congratulatory bore me too), I’m not much on the camaraderie in the film community - I like being a sort of outsider. I tend to work with same people over and over again: BTLers and actors on the films I make. I prefer making friendships and relationship that go beyond the business (they tend to last longer)…
Hope this clears things up for you.
Oops. One more thing. I’m successful (as successful as I want to be, which by anybody’s definition is, very) enough to work on my own terms, so your career advice is both unwanted and unnecessary. So fuck off.
Oh, and one last thing, Kev…err…Kevin…YOU might want to see a professional regarding your incessant need to be liked. Seriously, dude, why the fuck do you care what <i<anybody thinks of you, especially somebody you may or may not know personally or even met.
Think about it, please.
Comment by Jake Hollywood — February 23, 2008 @ 7:37 am
Jake, I realize that you’re sitting on a lot of anger, but the vitriol and the attacks do not help make your point. It really doesn’t matter what you think of me as an individual, but I again point out that the name-calling is both rude and unproductive.
I do have one question for you. Can you explain the following post, which you put on Ken Levine’s blog on November 26: “…Until then as a non-WGA writer I’ll stay on the line and support the cause because it’s the right thing to do.”
Are you or are you not a WGA member? And at the same time, are you really a DGA member? If you aren’t, then I believe you have some explaining to do.
Comment by Kevin — February 23, 2008 @ 5:25 pm
Wrong Jake, Kevin. Not only am I a WGA member, I’m also a DGA member.
I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.
And, more importantly, YOU keep insisting that I’m angry (which I’m not) just because YOU don’t like my definition of scab.
You’ll get over it.
Comment by Jake Hollywood — February 23, 2008 @ 9:10 pm
I’m not convinced, Jake. To believe you now, I must believe there are two Jake Hollywoods posting on the various blogs with your voice, and that the other one has a blog with your voice. (thecurmudgeon inthecorner.blogspot for anyone who wants to find it. Just add the .com at the end)
You see, the post at Levine’s site links to that blog, as does the Jake Hollywood who posts at United Hollywood. Both of those Jake Hollywoods are identical to you in their posts and in the varying levels of vitriol. Are you denying that you are the Jake Hollywood posting these items and that blog? If you’re doing that, there’s a more serious problem going on here.
How do you explain this?
Comment by Kevin — February 23, 2008 @ 11:07 pm
…a more serious problem goin on here?
Oh, no. Not that!
Possible serious problems:
The internet has been taken over by terrorist?
You’re doing drugs. Again. And hullucinating. Again.
SAG will think you’re a SCAB, too.
Golly, Kev. How do YOU explain it?”
Or maybe…
I’m just fucking with you because you’re a self-absorbed asshole.
Yep. That’s the serious problem, isn’t it?
You ask a lot of questions (with not much point to any of them), but you never answer any…
You seriously, and I do mean seriously need to get over yourself.
PS: I’m the one and true Jake Hollywood (WGA/DGA member–though neither a Jake or a Hollywood–big shocker, huh?–are my real names. They’re close, though).
Comment by jake Hollywood — February 24, 2008 @ 7:10 pm
Jake, you appear to be dodging the issue. And this isn’t about me - it’s about your actions and statements, which do not make sense when put together.
Rather than address the questions, you pulled down your curmudgeon blog today, presumably after I called you on the fact that your comments discussing your non-WGA status link to it. This is apparently not the first time you have removed a blog after being challenged.
Based on the posts you have placed on this blog, at United Hollywood, and apparently at multiple blogs where you have spoken with a consistent voice, you are presenting yourself as a WGA member while admitting that you are not one. This is a very serious issue, and it calls into question the very basis for most of your posts.
Your actions and your rhetoric contradict each other, and continuing to attack me will not erase that problem for you.
I strongly urge you to think about these issues and present a better explanation. If you don’t have one, then I don’t understand how you can continue to claim moral or guild authority.
Comment by Kevin — February 24, 2008 @ 9:53 pm
Kev? Kev? Kev?
Anybody home in your head?
I’ve answered your moronic questions, only you appear to be too stupid to comprehend the answers.
And Kev? I don’t have any problems. YOU seem to have them all.
Bye-bye now, I think it’s time for you to go back to your padded cell.
Comment by Jake Hollywood — February 25, 2008 @ 7:33 am
Jake, your refusal to answer these simple questions can only mean that the suspicion I have presented here is true. Running away from the situation and calling people names does not change the facts - that you admitted that you are not a member of the WGA, that you have repeatedly started and pulled down blogs when confronted over your statements, and that you are unwilling the change the vitriolic tone of your statements, even when asked to do so, not only by me but by WGA members like John August on other sites. Your inability to even address this points to a more serious and deep-rooted problem that I strongly suggest you examine before launching any further attacks.
By all accounts, you are not a member of the WGA and probably not a member of the DGA, but you are posing as one online for your own purposes. This fatally compromises your credibility and your moral standing. I have no need to continue this discussion, as I’ve proven my point and your reaction has confirmed it. But if I come across further attacks by you here or elsewhere, I’ll be sure to remind you and the other readers of the reality of your situation.
Comment by Kevin — February 25, 2008 @ 11:05 am
I see that Jake deleted his admission that he is not in the WGA on Ken Levine’s blog. What is he hiding? Poor Jake, It must be hard keeping track of so many lies.
Comment by DGA Guy — February 25, 2008 @ 4:12 pm