First, here's the AFTRA's press release with that guild's statement by president Roberta Reardon. Then below it is SAG president Alan Rosenberg's statement. At the very bottom is the AMPTP's statement. (I'll have my own analysis later...)
From AFTRA tonight:
LOS ANGELES (July 8, 2008) – The American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA) announced today that AFTRA members ratified a new three-year primetime television agreement (Exhibit A of the AFTRA Network Television Code) reached with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP) by a 62.4% margin.
AFTRA—the nation’s second largest performers’ union—represents more than 70,000 actors, recording artists, broadcasters, and other talent working in the entertainment and media industries.
AFTRA National President Roberta Reardon made the following statement: “Today’s vote reflects the ability of AFTRA members to recognize a solid contract when they see it. Despite an unprecedented disinformation campaign aimed at interfering with our ratification process, a majority of members ultimately focused on what mattered—the obvious merits of a labor agreement that contains substantial gains for every category of performer in both traditional and new media.
“Clearly, this was not a typical ratification process, and it would be disingenuous to pretend otherwise. To those of us for whom labor solidarity is more than just a slogan, the idea that politically-motivated leaders of one union would use their members’ dues to attack another union is unconscionable. Working people do not benefit when their union is under attack.
"For the sake of our members, organized labor must be united, especially in a world of ever-increasing corporate consolidation. Given this, AFTRA leadership is eager to focus on several important initiatives in the months to come: Building on the suggestion of our valued supporters, we will seek to organize a summit of top actors, performers, and union leaders to engage in a thoughtful, constructive discussion of how we can achieve unity among performers—and ultimately, if feasible, merger of the performers’ unions.
"Given that working men and women accomplish more when we work together with trust and mutual respect, we will ask the leadership of the AFL-CIO AEMI ICC unions, the DGA, WGA and others in the labor community to come together well in advance of the next round of contract negotiations to explore ways of maximizing the leverage of entertainment industry workers.
"Finally, I intend to promptly review with our National elected leadership and the Presidents of all AFTRA Locals the conditions needed to restore trust to re-establish joint bargaining on our respective commercials contracts.
“I sincerely appreciate the committed work of the negotiating committee, elected leaders, the labor community, and individual activist members of AFTRA who worked tirelessly and publicly to secure this solid contract for television industry performers. I am especially grateful for the support of many joint members of SAG and AFTRA—such as those in Chicago, Florida, Houston, Nashville, New York, Portland, San Francisco and Seattle—who displayed courage in the face of potential retribution, by taking a stand against disunity with the power of truth and solidarity.”
Negotiations with the AMPTP over the AFTRA Primetime TV contract began on May 7. They concluded on May 28 with a tentative agreement that was unanimously recommended for approval by AFTRA’s 31-member negotiating committee. The AFTRA National Board of Directors overwhelmingly approved the primetime television contract on June 7 and recommended the deal to members, which was ratified today. The new contract is effective from July 1, 2008, through June 30, 2011.
And here is SAG prez Alan Rosenberg's statement:
Los Angeles, July 8, 2008 -- Screen Actors Guild National President Alan Rosenberg released the following statement today: “Clearly many Screen Actors Guild members responded to our education and outreach campaign and voted against the inadequate AFTRA agreement. We knew AFTRA would appeal to its many AFTRA-only members, who are news people, sportscasters and DJs, to pass the tentative agreement covering acting jobs. In its materials, AFTRA focused that appeal on the importance of actor members’ increased contributions to help fund its broadcast members’ pension and health benefits.Screen Actors Guild is the actors union with more than 95% of the work under this contract, jurisdiction over all motion pictures, and over 4 billion dollars in member earnings under the SAG agreement over just the last three years.
We thank the over 4,500 proud SAG members from all over this country who have signed the “SAG Solidarity Statement,” in support of their negotiators. The Screen Actors Guild national negotiating committee remains committed to our core institutional mission to improve the lives of actors and their families.
We will continue to address the issues of importance to actors that AFTRA left on the table and we remain committed to achieving a fair contract for SAG actors.”
And, finally, this is what the AMPTP has to say:
We appreciate today's vote of confidence by actors in the agreement we reached with AFTRA, and hope that it demonstrates to SAG's Hollywood leadership that there is support for the new economic relationships we have built with writers, directors and actors -- and not much support for a strike, whether de facto or real.With this AFTRA ratification announcement, our industry has now achieved four major labor agreements within the last five months. These agreements -- which offer both meaningful economic gains and groundbreaking new media rights for directors, writers and AFTRA members -- are the result of difficult negotiations and many compromises by all sides. We hope that SAG's Hollywood leadership will allow SAG members to vote on AMPTP's final offer - which would give SAG members more than $250 million in additional compensation and important new media rights.
(See my two SAG/AFTRA/AMPTP articles in LA Weekly: here and here.)
Well, the big money studios beat the little guy again.
This contract MUST change drastically in 2011.
Comment by actorjames — July 8, 2008 @ 6:42 pm
Prediction: In the bizarro world that is SAG, they’ll claim this as a victory.
Comment by Scott — July 8, 2008 @ 6:47 pm
This is all the goddamn DGA’s fault. They’re the ones that set the precedent of letting the AMPTP successfully pit one union against another, to the detriment of all.
Hold strong, SAG! Do not give up in your push for what is right and fair! Just because five other guilds ate a crappy deal does not mean you should too.
Comment by Scott — July 8, 2008 @ 6:48 pm
Well SAG the ball is in your court now. What are you going to do?
Comment by RTA — July 8, 2008 @ 6:49 pm
Hey Scott, you’re an embarrassment to the name. Don’t blame the DGA for being the adults.
Comment by Scott — July 8, 2008 @ 6:55 pm
Actually this isn’t DGAs fault at all. This is the fault of Rosenberg and Verrone not communicating with each other and the WGA not waiting for SAG to strike and a host of other ego related moves by union presidents. You want a better contract? Elect a better union president, SAG members. That’s what the WGA better do.
Comment by ShutUpItsMine — July 8, 2008 @ 6:56 pm
Shocked! Shocked, I say.
AFTRA those purveyors of all that is good and wise negotiated such a wonderful deal even the DGA is envious. And that’s saying something.
Now SAG and AFTRA will bury the proverbial hatchet (of course there’ll be the inevitable temptation to kill each other) and then fall in love with each other all over again…
Not.
All I hope is SAG has the courage of its convictions. Some guild in this town should.
Comment by Hank Hollyweird — July 8, 2008 @ 7:00 pm
So that means that almost 40 percent rejected the contract?? That is a huge rejection number in a union vote where leadership has recommended a yes vote. Most likely actors rejected the contract and all the weathermen and disc jockeys and newscasters voted yes so the actors would keep filling their pension funds.
How about a vote of ONLY AFTRA’s actors? They would never allow that.
All actors should be only covered by SAG and that’s it.
All dual cardholders should tear up their AFTRA cards and withdraw.
Comment by SAG member — July 8, 2008 @ 7:01 pm
And so begins the near total collapse of SAG’s negotiating power with the AMPTP.
Thanks almost totally to the hubris and incompetence of SAG’s current negotiating team.
Exhibiting the most destructive kind of leadership, they try to decimate anyone who disagrees with them. And here’s what we have to show for it: A weakened and divided union. A shattered alliance between two acting unions where there should be unanimity in the face of powerful media interests. And a studio power structure that couldn’t have imagined a better scenario if they’d paid for it.
Negotiating with the heads of global, diversified entertainment corporations needs a calm, steady and professional hand. We have been ill-served by the school-yard amateurism of our leadership.
SAG’s leverage has been reduced to this: “We’re going to strike guys.” Two problems: the AMPTP doesn’t care (and they can do an end-around with AFTRA). And (and I think the AMPTP knows this as does SAG’s leadership) Alan Rosenberg et. al. probably can’t even get a strike authorization from the rank and file now. Wow.
For the current SAG leadership this must surely (hopefully) be the beginning of the end. Let’s just hope for all us “middle class” actors this is the end of our beginning.
Comment by Christopher Grove — July 8, 2008 @ 7:03 pm
SAG has to take the deal now. If they don’t watch all tv shows switch from film to HD and all AFTRA.
Scott-
This is actually all the WGA’s fault. They should have stayed out and gone on strike with SAG but David Young’s strategy failed again. That’s 0 for 2 Young.
And SAG can start accepting responsibility now. Read this article http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117988607.html?categoryid=18&cs=1 in Variety by Cynthia Littleton.
Everyone can say its only 62% but its ratified and producers are ready to make shows AFTRA rather than deal with drama from SAG.
Hold out and watch SAG lose TV forever. That includes made for DVD features-same contract(TV Long form).
Comment by notgoingtoTip — July 8, 2008 @ 7:03 pm
While I’m sure all you impotent doomsday naysayers will get up and scream “SEEEEE!” I would say 38% of the membership against the contract is a positive sign that the labor force in America is not as willing to roll over and play dead as some would like to believe. I would also say divide and conquer is a useful technique throughout history in winning battles and AFTRA’s eagerness to play into it is surely a sign they will give in to AMPTP in the future to undermine the better working relationship SAG is working toward. For those of you who are struggling to make it on SAG wages, wait till you see the day rate on “DIRT”–oh, canceled I think? (How will Courtney pay for that HUMMER? The same way Arquette does, silly-the money from FRIENDS.)Well how about the new “90210″ or Sony Picture TVs “Drop Dead Diva” both primetime shows AFTRA has poached. Thanks for the crappy contract AFTRA membership! And please check my other pockets.
Comment by zackery — July 8, 2008 @ 7:03 pm
OK, the current SAG leadership lost. They had only one strategy and it failed. It’s time for the adults on the negotiating team, if there are any, to make a deal. Take the AFTRA deal, work out force majeur, and get what you can on the feature side.
With luck, the next SAG election will put people in charge who understand why merger is the only sensible option.
Comment by Another Working Actor — July 8, 2008 @ 7:04 pm
All unions must make a pact for 2011 to work together … after this is over.
Comment by Working Actor — July 8, 2008 @ 7:07 pm
SAG Negotiators: Listen to the membership. Settle, stop the intra-union war, and get on with the business of being a great union instead of being hornswoggled by a bunch of punch-drunk has-beens who are going to be voted off the Hollywood SAG Board in 60 days for the waste they’ve charged to members.
I can only guess at how they’re dreaming of spinning this 62.5% mandate to stop being stupid.
Comment by Working SAG/AFTRA Actor — July 8, 2008 @ 7:11 pm
Hold your head up high, Reardon, you pulled in a whopping 62%. Thank God weathermen in Peoria were able to vote on our acting contract. You sold us down the river. You’re weak, inneffectual and a tool of the studios. But, hey, you got that contract passed, so you must feel awesome.
Hopefully SAG will kick AFTRA out of the offices they own. Or up the rent, so the 2nd rate undermining union will be forced to stand on its own - seeing how it is so powerful.
Comment by David Anthony — July 8, 2008 @ 7:13 pm
Hey Scott we are in bizarro world. Did you check out Allen’s statement. Where do SAG go from here.
Comment by just a thought — July 8, 2008 @ 7:14 pm
Let the nightmare end.
I voted NO on the AFTRA contract. The membership has spoken and ratified our contract. Now SAG, my other union must do the right thing and not inflame the situation by going at it all alone. Pretend to make nice to AFTRA, while building up a war chest to prepare for a battle to the death with the AMPTP in three years. Be the MOSES here and let my people go. Back to work.
Take the contract back to us, SAG members and let us vote on it without your strong recommendation, in fact don’t give a recommendation just let us decide now.
This way our leaders will be back in pocket with the strength of its membership and not what everyone else speculates us to do. That will protect SAG leaders from any fall out.
We will vote in the contract and be back to work by July 23, 2008.
Comment by Chris Jackson — July 8, 2008 @ 7:15 pm
Well, if this stands as is, actors can bend over and kiss residuals as they know it goodbye.
Viacom is in a legal fight right now to gain access to all Youtube members records. why? to look for copyright infringement, the business model of lots of these sites (clips of TV shows, whole episodes, clips of movies, whole movies). And Viacom will win. The courts are leaning heavily towards copyright protection in these type cases.
BUT - Viacom is already making its library available to sites like Veoh, Hulu, MySpace, etc., to run entire episodes of its shows. The sites are ad-suppoted, money goes to Viacom. I have a series I did for four years running 24/7/365 on all these sites. I wasn’t asked, let alone paid.
Translation: Viacom sues Youtube for copyright infringement, then Viacom gives away previously protected content of actors without paying the actors, or even asking them.
The other issues were all reasonable and overdue, but they’re all peanuts compared to this one, and the AFTRA deal cites a “mechanism” by which AFTRA and the AMPTP will work this out. Here’s how it will work out - you watch. AMPTP neither asks nor gives any residuals to actors for internet clip use. They’re already doing it folks. AFTRA has a “sunset clause,” after which they can go back at the issue of clip consent. Here’s how that will work out - you watch. The sun will set, and it will get very dark for actors.
hollywood reporter:
Still, some industry watchers view AFTRA’s clip consent agreement to be irrelevant.
“The actors don’t actually have any meaningful way to not consent because the negotiation takes place at the same time they’re hired,” Handel said. “If there’s a deal and the studio says ‘We want your consent’ and the actor says no, the studio can say: ‘Fine. We’ll hire someone else.’
“The actor has no leverage,” he added. “It’s a fig leaf put over the issue.”
Comment by actor with sore ass — July 8, 2008 @ 7:17 pm
If AFTRA had merged with SAG then none of this would happen and Rosenberg wouldn’t find himself in such an untenable position. SAG can’t blame AFTRA for acting in its own best interest, not after spurning their desire to join forces and merge unions.
Comment by Tom — July 8, 2008 @ 7:35 pm
Well SAGsters, time to think about what you can gain next time your contact is up. Probably best to begin by canning the current SAG leaders and negotiators and find some who are able to negotiate and bargain through intelligent research and early planning. Let Alan Rosenberg star in the Barretta Movie and Allen to make another crappy sprOts deal (NFL) and see if you really can get some true solidarity going in the industry between now and then.
As for anyone claiming victory from the 37.6% no vote, a no is a no and the AFTRA deal is ratified by the 62.4% yes. No victories here - just a deal in place for 3 years when they can try again.
I’m almost sure that the SAG negs will try and pull one more rabbit out of the hat but unless they truly think they can get a 75% strike vote the rabbit will be a face saving capitulation.
Comment by TranspoBill — July 8, 2008 @ 7:36 pm
Remember when merger failed by just a narrow margin, less than one percent, and the same MeFirsters called themselves SAVE SAG?
Back then they claimed defeating merger by less than one percent was a huge margin of victory. Now they’ve lost two to one and they’re saying they won.
They can’t get their story straight, they can’t get a contract straight. They’re idiots who’ve led us into a war against ourselves, and it’s time for them to go.
Comment by The Obvious — July 8, 2008 @ 8:01 pm
Although the deal for AFTRA and proposal for SAG is just another example of corporate greed it is in everyones best interest to get a deal done with SAG now. Until the unions learn to work together , negotiate as a group, and understand that the Rupert Murdochs, Sumner Redstones and Brad Greys of the world play hard , than they will always be on the losing end. The producers backed them into a corner because SAG never has a strategy and can’t negotiate at this level. In there defense the producers are the best in the world at negotiation. The unions now need to consider working together for a real deal in three years. It was over when the producers successfully divided Aftra and Sag.
Comment by Stephen Rice — July 8, 2008 @ 8:09 pm
After being a production assistant for longer than I care to say and now finally a member of the DGA (and also SAG,) I’ve seen the inanities of SAG upclose: from their silly “three voucher” rule for background to join, which, by the way is dubbed the “blow-jobs for vouchers program” on a lot of sets I’ve worked on, to the ridiculous popularity contests for board membership conducted in background holding areas. The reason SAG is going to lose this battle; and they will lose is because they conduct themselves like a high school clique than a professional organization of craftsmen.
Sure you can blame the DGA for settling their contract quickly; how dare they come to the table armed with facts! Or you can take it out on the WGA for not waiting to negotiate their contract with SAG, and after seeing the way SAG has conducted themselves in regards to AFTRA, can you blame them? But the problem solely rest with SAG. How can you take this Guild seriously when so many of its voting members and so many on its negotiating committee haven’t worked in YEARS? If SAG wants to be taken seriously it needs to take itself seriously first.
And by the way, I can’t wait to find out which way the 100+ Skid Row residents who became SAG members on The Soloist are going to vote on the contract. Mr. Rosenberg, start courting the “junkie-block.”
Comment by Topher Long — July 8, 2008 @ 8:10 pm
“How about a vote of ONLY AFTRA’s actors? They would never allow that.”
Funny–wasn’t it the SAG leadership that opposed “affected member” voting?
“If AFTRA had merged with SAG then none of this would happen and Rosenberg wouldn’t find himself in such an untenable position. SAG can’t blame AFTRA for acting in its own best interest, not after spurning their desire to join forces and merge unions.”
Sad but true.
Comment by Sarcastic Cynic — July 8, 2008 @ 8:13 pm
62%?
There is support for a strike in this town. SAG, you are the most powerful union in Hollywood. Don’t be afraid to do what you have to do.
Comment by John — July 8, 2008 @ 8:16 pm
Sorry, but 62% is not a narrow margin of victory. Is it as high a percentage as it probably would have been without SAG’s interference? No, but it’s still a pretty significant margin of union members who essentially said that they wanted to continue working, period. End of story.
Comment by TJ — July 8, 2008 @ 8:23 pm
Deadlinewashingtondaily November 7, 1972
At Least It Was Close
Today Richard Nixon defeated George McGovern in a close election, winning by a margin of 60.7% to 37.5%. Nixon won only 49 states. He edged McGovern in the electoral votes by 520-17. McGovern took solace in the closeness of the vote.
“Good thing we spent that extra $150,000, because we might have lost D.C.,” said Gary Hart, McGovern’s campaign manager.
******************************************************
Hey, come on. Let’s spin this as a victory. They’ll blame DJ’s and weathermen, but how many of those people actually voted on a primetime TV contract? I’m guessing very few. It doesn’t effect their lives. No, this vote was a vote by dual card holders from across the country. It was a message to the leadership. Get it done.
So, if S.A.G. decides to drag this out, I say let’s have a strike authorization vote. Let’s see where we stand.
Comment by pat skipper — July 8, 2008 @ 8:27 pm
It’s called a Super Majority.
The same that would have created a merge of SAG and AFTRA.
Hello? Are we ready?
Comment by Tom Ligon — July 8, 2008 @ 8:32 pm
I realize these are Hollywood types and not English teachers or statisticians, but the wording on the vote is confusing. 62% margin of victory means 62% more people voted for the contract that voted against. A 62% positive vote would be something else. It would mean that 38% voted against, making the margin of victory something less than 62%. So which is it? Because a 62% positive vote is hardly an overwhelming embrace of the new contract.
Comment by rosettaresearch — July 8, 2008 @ 8:38 pm
Hey there Nikki. Thanks for the information and the great forum of ideas you provide…
The REAL ISSUE of this particular negotiation should be glaringly obvious.
No matter what the RESULT of the various eventual ballots in this negotiation with the AMPTP… As important as the terms of this new deal and contract are, there is something far MORE IMPORTANT.
It should be OBVIOUS TO ALL REASONABLE AND INTELLIGENT PEOPLE, that there should NOT be TWO SEPARATE ENTITIES NEGOTIATING the SAME AREAS of work FOR ACTORS or ANYONE who PERFORMS SCRIPTED OR IMPROVISED MATERIAL for RECORDED MEDIA… or LIVE MEDIA for that fact.
Performance means just that, PERFORMANCE! Stunts, Dance, Singing, Background Work by Professionals. Voice Over, whether for Commercials or Animated Feature productions or on the radio, a pilot who carries out the maneuvers of a plane as indicated in a script… Puppeteers… Body Doubles… they are all acting to fulfill a creative vision that’s targeted at presenting a certain story to the public.
ONE VOICE needs to speak for all.
That is the task that should come from these negotiations, whatever the outcome, so that in the future, there is no haggling by labor over uncertain jurisdictions and the ability of unions to undercut one another for the same areas of work.
On the day that MEMBERS of these Acting Organizations REALIZE that the NEED for ONE GREAT ALL ENCOMPASING UNION speaking at the table for ALL ACTORS is more important than anything that might keep them APART, then and only then will ACTORS have the ability to truly MAXIMIZE their POWER in negotiations.
A House DIVIDED amongst ITSELF cannot stand… and is fodder for it’s ENEMIES. Especially when it’s enemies are ITSELF!
Nothing that has happened in these past few months between AFTRA and SAG was not predicted. Both of these GREAT UNIONS… and yes… they ARE UNIONS… have had the opportunity to join together. They had that GLEAMING HOPE. PHASE ONE… Negotiating TOGETHER was a part of that process.
However, if JOINING TOGETHER is NO LONGER the IDEAL… It becomes the FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY of BOTH PARTIES to FEND FOR THEMSELVES and KEEP THEIR COFFERS and MEMBERSHIPS STRONG. BOTH UNIONS MUST FIGHT TO GAIN EMPLOYMENT for their MEMBERS, fight to PROTECT and INCREASE their JURIDICTIONS, and not SUBLIMATE their needs for the NEEDS of the GREATER WHOLE… Is it not OBVIOUS that this is what is happening?
The AMPTP has been given even MORE POWER at the table than it actually has, because of the INFIGHTING between the UNIONS. It’s gotten to the point where one cannot claim one’s SUPPORT FOR ONE UNION without ATTACKING THE OTHER. SUPPORT MOM and to HELL with DAD.
What a perfect position to place the AMPTP in. They are having their difficulties also in light of an uncertain future. They don’t know quite where their FUTURE MONEY is coming from… BUT ONLY A BLIND MAN can’t see that it’s coming. OF COURSE ACTORS, WRITERS, DIRECTORS and BELOW THE LINE PEOLE should SHARE FAIRLY in those profits with their Producer BROTHEREN. What is Fair? That is ALWAYS HAMMERED OUT AT the NEGOTIATION TABLE. And also in the CRUEL MARKETPLACE.
But… If you are going into a GUNFIGHT with a six shooter, and you only have THREE BULLETS… Shame on you…
I am reminded of a slogan the colonies used in shoring up their numbers to face the presumed overwhelming power of the British Army and Navy…
JOIN or DIE
As a dear friend of mine, Julie Michaels has said, Actors MUST form a LIKE MINDED FAMILY that SPEAKS with ONE VOICE.
Go Forward with Passion!
Comment by Raymond Forchion — July 8, 2008 @ 8:39 pm
Congrats AFTRA on all your hard work and I truly believe that if you are a paid member of ANY UNION you have to right to vote on anything that comes to you for a vote
So stop knocking broadcasters and dancers they are major part of our industry too
Comment by John — July 8, 2008 @ 8:40 pm
Maybe SAG should conduct a poll to see how many dual members didn’t receive ballots.
PPS
Comment by Paul Satterfield — July 8, 2008 @ 8:44 pm
I have to agree with those that believe that merger would have been the answer to this infighting nonsense. If all recorded actors were represented by the same organization, actors would have much more negotiating power.
Comment by Scott2 — July 8, 2008 @ 8:45 pm
Raymond Forchion for president!
Comment by LP — July 8, 2008 @ 9:13 pm
Boo Hoo. Should of could of.
The me firsters put themselves first and the membership second. Justine must be cussing up a storm. Potty mouth to say the least. Where does Francis weigh in in all this bulls@@t. Silence is golden that’s why we don’t hear from them.
You know when you bluff and get called on it you either call or fold. I say ask your members for a strike vote and see if it’s call or fold.
To respond to various posters.
You don’t need to go HD to get a AFTRA contract. The very best HBO series were shot on film. It’s all about where it’s shown.
The AMPTP with a small modification of this new agreement with AFTRA can cover film and it will pass by the same margin.
The truth is that you will never know voted for this contract. It’s anon.
So smoke the herb and drink the kool aid
Comment by just a thought — July 8, 2008 @ 9:29 pm
i’m sick to death of this insanity. i just don’t give a shit any longer about this fucking strike. nobody and i mean NOBODY can afford to stay out of work AGAIN. Other than the 6 or 7% of the top players in this business. I realize how utterly nonconstructive and selfish this sounds but there you have it.
this is a game that will never be won. the producer-company players are too deep pocketed.
flame away….
signed
long time cranky below the liner
Comment by scott3 — July 8, 2008 @ 9:39 pm
It’s amazing how bad most people are when it comes to math.
“The American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA) announced today that AFTRA members ratified a new three-year primetime television agreement (Exhibit A of the AFTRA Network Television Code) reached with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP) by a 62.4% margin.”
The margin was 62.4% Which means that 81.7% of the votes were to accept the deal. That means only 19.3% were against it.
Get this thing over with SAG. Some of us that actually work in this business, would like to sell our product.
Comment by Brick — July 8, 2008 @ 9:45 pm
Scott 6:55 p.m. said, “Don’t blame the DGA for being the adults.”
Scott, the DGA had to be adults, for the AMPTP’s sake. It’s illegal to bone children up the ass like that.
Comment by Ruthie — July 8, 2008 @ 10:05 pm
I truly haven’t gotten an answer to some things I just don’t understand:
Since the AFTRA contract doesn’t lock down clip consent, why do the AFTRA supporters think they have a good deal? There are already sites running online that show episodes of TV shows, without paying or asking the actors. How is the AFTRA contract going to stop what is already happening? They have agreed to a “mechanism” that will be discussed with the AMPTP to work clip consent out, and a “sunset clause” to go back and revisit the issue in 3 years. Do any AFTRA supporters really think, after the DVD debacle that cost actors hundreds of millions of dollars, that the AMPTP isn’t laughing because they got serious wiggle room on clip consent in the AFTRA contract? What if an actor doesn’t agree to clip consent when they sign on a job? What’s to stop the producers from firing him or her? Isn’t this really, really important for where ALL future residuals are headed, and didn’t AFTRA fail to lock this down? Why is AFTRA trusting these bottom line businessmen to play nice, given their precedent for screwing actors (dvd) out of massive amounts of money, as if “we’re in this together?” These are tough take no prisoners guys. Isn’t it naive to approve the contract by the vastly smaller, weaker union? Does anybody really think the producers won’t exploit that first chance they get?
Didn’t AFTRA fail to lock down jurisdiction, giving producers wiggle room to make shows cheap on the internet using non-union actors? They can try out pilots this way. There are so many ways to exploit this to the detriment of the union actor.
And the free window? What if theaters begin taking feature films off a server (some theaters are already doing this) and screening them onto a traditional movie screen? If the free window is 12 or in some cases 24 days, don’t we stand to lose an enormous amount of money if we’re in a hit film?
Why would AFTRA give up on a DVD raise, since residuals affect actors so differently than the DGA (1 director) and the WGA (1, maybe 2 writers)? With actors, it’s 12 cents per DVD (?!) split between 10,20,30 actors,and the rate was agreed to nearly 30 years ago when the producers also promised to “revisit” the issue and never did, losing actors hundreds of millions of dollars in residuals. As you all know, actors LIVE on residuals. Can an AFTRA supporter make a fact based argument as to why the weak AFTRA protections on clips and the giving in on a long overdue DVD raise won’t really hurt actors? Why would you support these give-aways? I don’t get it.
A substantial raise in primetime minimums, which, as we all know, have become maximums. It’s overdue, and since producers no longer honor quotes, shouldn’t we be insisting on compensating by a substantial raise in minimums? The AFTRA 10% raise is less than the 4% per year consumer price rise. That’s a give-back, not a raise, yes?
Why would AFTRA supporters go for the weak product placement giveaways in the AFTRA deal? You’re on a TV set, or a movie set, and the producer wanders over and says “listen, we want to change your line - where it says ‘the wheels on my new truck are awesome!’ (stupid example, I know, but you get my meaning) to ‘the Michelin tires on my new truck are awesome!’ and we want you to be squatting by the tire so we can see the logo when you say it.”
What does an actor say to that? If he or she says “I’d rather not do that - it wasn’t in the script I agreed to and I feel stupid and exploited saying it,” what’s to stop the producer from saying “o.k. - you’re fired,” under the AFTRA contract?
Why, when SAG covers 100% of movies and 99% of primetime TV, would dual card holders go for the weaker AFTRA deal and not support SAG? Is it because people are still upset about merger being voted down? Twice? Is it because SAG suggested proportional representation, to change AFTRA having 50% of the seats on the negotiating board, when SAG has 100% of movies and 99% of primetime? Why isn’t proportional representation more fair and reasonable given those overwhelming numbers?
I honestly don’t understand the AFTRA supporters viewpoint. Anybody?
Comment by Huh? — July 8, 2008 @ 10:27 pm
Yes, the work of anchormen & reporters is so demeaning to the craft of acting… The Fruit of the Loom guys must be especially insulted
Comment by RBP — July 8, 2008 @ 10:28 pm
Oye… what a mess. Why the DGA, WGA, SAG, AFTRA didn’t just wait until June 30th to jointly go out on strike, I’ll never know. This whole thing would have been over in a week. Can’t we all just get along? Yes, I know, I’m just a naive knuckle head. Guess I’ll never get elected a guild president either. We count our blessings where we find them.
Comment by Jeff Lyons — July 8, 2008 @ 10:40 pm
What a sad, sad time we live in. We have to endure 8 years of a Bush administration and now we have to watch as the Hollywood system crumbles before us. Thanks to AFTRA. How much do you want to bet president Roberta Reardon will be working for a studio in the very near future. Can I say cunt on here or is that one of those 7 words you can’t say on DHD?
What happens now, Nikki? Can you save us?
Comment by Pissed off — July 8, 2008 @ 10:58 pm
The margin was 62.4% Which means that 81.7% of the votes were to accept the deal. That means only 19.3% were against it.
Yeah, that’s just wrong. Despite the awkward wording, it means that the percentage of those who voted yes is 62.4%. Which means 37.6% voted against. Not even AFTRA is disputing this.
Brick. you are bad at English, Math, and Show Business.
Comment by Dave — July 8, 2008 @ 11:23 pm
SAG is the largest union in the industry.
SAG can offer the AFTRA contract, but we will vote NO. If we accept it, we create a precedent the producers will not allow reversal of in future negotiations.
We can and must STRIKE, thereby denying all SAG and AFTRA productions of SAG actors, then and only then will the AMPTP see that AFTRA cannot carry out what it promised when selling actors out, because dual union cardholders (who voted against the contract) will not work ANY bogus AFTRA production. A strike will not only shut down Hollywood, it will shut down AFTRA in prime-time. We still have the power, AFTRA can NOT end run around SAG, because they CANNOT populate thie sets without the all important dual union cardholder (who will be on strike for a month to prove it to them). In a SAG strike, we can picket every AFTRA production studio, picket Central Casting for trying to shaft SAG background actors by hustling up as many AFTRA clones as they can, and show the town AFTRA is nothing when it comes to trying to operate without SAG. If we settle for a crap contract, SAG will instead be breathing life into AFTRA instead of choking it out of prime-time as we need to. And we will give up too easily on the important issues of residuals and new-media, when SAG is the ONLY union that can win them. If we don’t strike now, no future strike will ever reclaim the lost territory.
Comment by Beck — July 8, 2008 @ 11:23 pm
Sorry, I had a typo. It’s 81.3% to 18.7%.
Comment by Brick — July 8, 2008 @ 11:25 pm
AFTRA National President Roberta Reardon made the following statement:
“Clearly, this was not a typical ratification process, and it would be disingenuous to pretend otherwise.”
YEAH! EXACTLY. FIRST BIT OF TRUTH YOU’VE STATED. IT’S DISINGENUOUS TO HAVE REPORTERS AND WEATHERMAN AND DISC JOCKEYS VOTING ON A CONTRACT THAT HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH THEM!
“To those of us for whom labor solidarity is more than just a slogan, the idea that politically-motivated leaders of one union would use their members’ dues to attack another union is unconscionable.”
SPARE ME THE FALSE CHIVALRY ROSIE. I SUPPOSE THOSE PRETTY COLOR FLYERS THAT WERE SENT OUT TO COUNTERACT SAG’S “ATTACK” WERE ALL BOUGHT WITH MONEY DONATED FROM NORMA RAE AND SGT. JOSEPH GETRAER? YES, THAT’S IT- ALL THE MONEY YOU AND AFTRA SPENT ADVERTISING FOR A “yes” VOTE CAME FROM UNUSED SAG RESIDUALS THESE ACTORS JUST HAD LYING AROUND WAITING TO BE DONATED FOR YOUR USE?! PUH-LEASE.
“Working people do not benefit when their union is under attack.”
NOR DO WORKING PEOPLE (WE’RE KNOWN AS ‘ACTORS’ ROBI!) BENEFIT HAVING TO PAY DUES TO A PATHETIC SECOND RATE UNION THAT THROWS ITS MEMBERS UNDER THE BUS IN ORDER TO GAIN POWER.
CONGRATULATIONS ON HELPING ST.NICK COUNTER MAKE THE FINAL TWIST OF THE KNIFE IN ACTOR’S BACKS COMPLETE.
Comment by AntiAFTRA — July 8, 2008 @ 11:41 pm
Both of these shows will likely fail. I don’t know about Diva, but I believe the only person crying out for a new 90210 was Dawn Orsoff.
Besides, all is not lost. Radio DJ’s and hosts should be in their own union as should be weathermen, dancers, and newscasters. Finally, SAG could ask for a recount and ask for a rep to be there when the recount happens.
Comment by Jessy S. — July 8, 2008 @ 11:55 pm
Buy the way math is math 63 up 37 down what does that tell you. 2 to 1. Two thirds passes a constitutional amendment. so where are you.
Comment by just a thought — July 9, 2008 @ 12:17 am
what an idiot jessy. why can SAG ask for a recount when it isn’t their union?
Comment by Laughing at the idiots — July 9, 2008 @ 12:48 am
So when can we get to the brass tacks and focus on the negotiations between SAG and the AMPTP instead of trying to place the blame on the WGA, DGA, AFTRA and any other organization/guild that isn’t SAG?
Negotiations are tough, across the board whether you’re a performer, broadcaster, hotel employee, farm worker or teacher. No employer just gives out of the goodness of their hearts. I’m sure SAG as an employer were tough in negotiations with their staff employees who are members of the Teamsters and the Office Professional Employees International Union. Doug, Alan and the board should’ve stayed focus on their negotiations instead of wasting time and money fighting another organization’s deal. They can still stand firm on their commitment to strike—but not in a way that will affect those waiver agreements that they signed because we don’t want to weaken our stance, now do we?
Comment by realunionist — July 9, 2008 @ 1:08 am
Put together your minds and develop a fail safe strategy; not this insane frustration. Work together not against each other about who said what..blah..blah..blah..Yes, SAG has the most inept way of allowing people join their union. 3 vouchers if your lucky doing background…yet, you work on legitimate SAG Indie contracts and can’t get a single voucher for playing the lead opposite James Russo; that is ass backwards..but not completely relevant to these negotiations..The two unions need to come to an understanding and become one. It is that simple. One acting union that represents every entertainment/actor across the board..If we’re united as one then we are powerful. Fair and reasonable contracts negotiated by fair minded people…
Comment by Chris — July 9, 2008 @ 1:14 am
Hey Just A Thought,
Math is not hard. You don’t round up .4. You round that down. So, 62.4% is actually 62% - which means the vote is close to 60% to 40% - since you’re using liberal mathematics. That’s not 2/3s. Sorry about the math lesson, but you arrogance was annoying. Oh, and you were wrong.
As far as this AFTRA deal goes - the time has come for all of us disgusted with AFTRA to go fi-core en mass.
Comment by Working actor #274 — July 9, 2008 @ 1:36 am
@Comment by Beck — July 8, 2008 @ 11:23 pm
You are everything that is wrong with SAG.
How much do you think you are going to gain this year? Only one studio has seen a gain in their stock shares and other than Disney, all the rest are down more than 15%.
How willing do you think SHAREHOLDERS (re: not people in Hollywood) are going to be to throw more upfront money at actors, writer etc than what they are already throwing?
This whole notion that no strike now is ‘unfixable’ by a future strike is utter nonsense.
Ya know who else had the same attitude you had? The United Auto Workers of America. Ask them how great they are doing these days. You’ll get a nice glimpse of your future there. There are plenty of foreigners who can pull off credible American accents, chief.
Comment by manny — July 9, 2008 @ 3:08 am
We need a proportional merger of SAG and AFTRA. The membership of AFTRA is only about 2/3 that of SAG, so any combined union’s power structure should be closer to a 3:2 SAG-to-AFTRA ratio in whatever governing board emerges.
If you want to make some extreme concessions to the egos and career interests of AFTRA’s current leaders, make it a 5:3 SAG-to-AFTRA split in governance. Under NO circumstances can we afford a 1:1 SAG-AFTRA board, especially when AFTRA’s membership is relatively much smaller and its leadership has proven way more willing to suck studio dick, as in this latest debacle.
We don’t need 50% of the new union’s board to be these AFTRA studio shills. It’s a laughably piss-poor limit, but wouldn’t you at least say that studio fifth-columnists controlling 40% of a merged labor union is plenty?
Comment by actorjames — July 9, 2008 @ 3:55 am
To Manny —
Comparison to UAW is not fair. Outsourcing of auto jobs didn’t happen in a vacuum, and wasn’t inevitable like we’re made to believe. At every step, the destruction of the U.S. auto industry was LEGISLATED in Washington at the behest of multinational corporations (e.g. NAFTA). UAW never asked for anything more radical than a less-rapid deterioration of their standard of living. “Please, just ruin our lives a little slower!”
Plus, acting is among the least fungible trades there is. Truth is, there aren’t “plenty of foreigners” to do the acting work as you claim. There’s Vancouver and Toronto, and that’s about it. That’s actually a major bargaining strength: that our work cannot be thrown open to the same overwhelming competition as other industries, mostly due to cultural barriers.
Comment by actorjames — July 9, 2008 @ 4:13 am
If I was a AMPTP negotiator, sitting across the table from SAG, I’d be feeling pretty frisky about Thursday.
In fact, I might consider taking Rosenberg’s balls, or whats left of them, and fitting them in a nice vice and listen to him cry, just for the hell of it. I mean, why should the AMPTP do anything to make him save face at this juncture? AFTRA’s deal is virtually the same deal as the WGA and DGA deal. Why would any good business person give SAG more than they got?
SAG leadership and the National Board must be held accountable for a complete and utter failure at the bargaining table. It is time for responsible and fair-minded members to step up and take SAG back!
SAG and AFTRA must mend this divisive and harmful behavior. Merger has always been the answer to strength. When 2011 comes around let us have one union take ALL performers into the 21st century.
Comment by Mark — July 9, 2008 @ 5:45 am
Extrapolating further on working actor #274’s logic…. He’s right, 62.4 IS very close to 60% And if you think about it, 60% is very close to 50% so when you reason it a that way the vote was really a 50% to 50% tie, right?…. moron.
Let’s face it, SAG leadership blew it by ostracizing AFTRA to the point that they felt they had to walk away and go it alone. SAG leadership dug there own hole. They were cavalier and they still don’t get it. We need to get these MeFirsters out next election, realign the unions and try a united front next go-around…. and please — Let’s MERGE.
Comment by Kevin dual holder — July 9, 2008 @ 5:55 am
(Both of these shows will likely fail. I don’t know about Diva, but I believe the only person crying out for a new 90210 was Dawn Orsoff.)
I highly doubt that as the blogs are buzzing over the spin off. It’s The CW’s only sure thing. If it doesn’t pass, the network is toast.
Comment by B- — July 9, 2008 @ 6:12 am
Question is now this: is the Screen Actors Guild headed into strike territory? I’ve wonder about this now since the Aftra agreement was agreed upon.
Comment by chuck — July 9, 2008 @ 6:27 am
The problem with Beck’s argument is that he doesn’t understand the need to get 75% membership approval for a strike. Calling for that vote and not getting that number would be a historic failure that I strongly doubt Alan Rosenberg wants as the mark of his leadership. Further, a failure to reach a contract leaves AFTRA open to take over more and more prime time contracts - something that SAG will not want to risk. Rosenberg and Allen could certainly still opt to try to go down fighting, but the consequences now just get worse.
I still hope that the discussions starting again on Thursday will quickly lead to a contract that SAG can accept. I believe that Rosenberg and Allen will recommend the current contract with caveats about the force majeure situation, and that they will simply put the blame on AFTRA for the need to take that contract.
The upcoming SAG meeting should be instructive about how the membership feels about the direction things have taken.
Comment by Kevin — July 9, 2008 @ 6:58 am
LMAO! Did Jessy S. say SAG can ask for a recount???? I know he routinely makes dumb statements, but geez.
You do realize that SAG has no legal standing to be involved in any AFTRA voting process??? How would SAG ask for a recount?
Comment by Any common sense? — July 9, 2008 @ 7:33 am
SAG lost. End of story. If Rosenberg and Allen thought they could get a strike authorization they would have asked for it. Luckily for those of us who actually work in this business the only votes he could get are the loudmouth ‘Unionists” on this board.
As for all of those complaining that D.J.’s and Weathermen got to vote maybe I should complain that my friends mom gets to vote on my SAG contract because she said one line in two different movies five years ago. Yeah, she should have a say. The greedy corporations didn’t win. People who want to work did.
Comment by Allswell — July 9, 2008 @ 7:35 am
The AFTRA “deal” was crap and everyone knows it. AFTRA has a perception problem - they come off as Skid Row prostitutes who talk desperately and ridiculously in Bush-speak.
I love the crews but AFTRA negotiated away future earnings from residuals for actors - perhaps permanently. That is unacceptable.
I hope that SAG and other high profile players can be clever and effective in pressuring the studios through PR and back channels into a fair deal.
If not, see you on the picket lines.
Comment by Working Not — July 9, 2008 @ 7:42 am
OH NO. Will SAG now have to agree to what the WGA and the DGA negotiated? How will the actors survive?
I love how this is all painted as the ultimate screwing over and now they will have to take what is offered. What is offered is what was ALREADY struck over, and what has been negotiated with other guilds.
I cannot believe the arrogance.
Comment by Unbelievable — July 9, 2008 @ 8:34 am
When will SAG realize enough is enough? Everyday they dont make a deal they are costing SAG members and countless others in the Entertainment community jobs.
They are proving that SAG is terrible at negotiating and a narcissistic, selfish organization that only cares about it’s own arrogance and greed. They have turned the Industry against SAG.The Majority of SAG members dont even support their leaderships strategy. Dont they get it? I guess not. dont get me started about the stupidity of a strike. Can SAG be that dumb? lets hope not.
Comment by Steve — July 9, 2008 @ 8:43 am
What have we learned today, Children? Well . . .
SAG -DAMN IT- MAKE SURE YOUR CONTRACT E-N-D-S BEFORE THE WGA, THE DGA, AND ESPECIALLY AFTRA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU DON’T WIN BY BEING THE LAST DAMN CABOOSE OF A TRAIN!!
CHANGE YOUR CONTRACT’S END-DATE AND LET’S CUT THE OTHERS TO RIBBONS NEXT TIME!!
Comment by John Chambers — July 9, 2008 @ 9:27 am
So, it’s essentially a 60/40 split, right? When contracts are usually approved 90% or higher? I’d say SAG’s education campaign was working, the clock just ran out. When AFTRA left joint bargaining for the first time in 27 years (why? miffed? still pissed merger was voted down? Twice? didn’t want to give up a 50% say at the negotiating table, when SAG covers 100% of movies and 99% of primetime? Why so bitchy AFTRA? What’s best for actors? - clearly not achieved in this contract - or because of anger over feeling marginalized as a small, weak union, which you are?) made their deal with the devil, SAG had to spend some time waiting to get to see the AFTRA deal, work the numbers, then, decide to launch a campaign to encourage dual card members to vote “no.” It took time and money to get through the AFTRA propaganda (a “no” vote is a strike vote” - no it wasn’t - that was a straight-up lie!) and lay out the issues, which can be confusing, to the dual card holders, and still - a 60/40 split? I hear SAG is going to turn down the AMPTP Thursday. Good. Then, let’s launch a little campaign of our own to further educate members about why this AFTRA deal weakens SAG and is bad for the union actor, ten put it to a vote to strike. Is SAG going to go down to AFTRA? Little, pain in the ass, bitch, moan, stamp her feet, Roberta Reardon? Na… let’s see what happens.
Comment by cat — July 9, 2008 @ 9:32 am
Please, people! All this in-fighting! No wonder ALL the unions failed to make any substantial gains and the AMPTP just plain WON! Just because we are all frustrated by the PATHETIC, ARROGANT and CHILDISH behavior of ALL THE UNION LEADERS, doesn’t mean we have to behave like them.
If we all play nice and try to come up with a decent plan for SAG, now that they are between a rock and a hard place, then we could set a precedent and bargain collectively in 3 years and actually make some gains because we would have some power.
Right now we are bargaining against ourselves when all the unions are divided by job category. We only have power when we are united.
And right now every last Union leader should be ashamed of themselves and every member disgusted. Let’s refuse to be pawns to our leaders egos.
Comment by disgusted — July 9, 2008 @ 9:45 am
Scott 6:55 p.m. said, “Don’t blame the DGA for being the adults.”
Ruthie said: Scott, the DGA had to be adults, for the AMPTP’s sake. It’s illegal to bone children up the ass like that.
So the anti-DGA trolls are vicious sadists as well. Nice effort Ruthie.
Comment by Scott — July 9, 2008 @ 10:07 am
Uh, do the math folks…but do it sensibly. 62% YES does not mean 30-something NO. It means 62% of the TOTAL MEMBERSHIP of AFTRA voted YES. The rest includes those who DID NOT VOTE AT ALL. These things are not a vote of majority of voters, but a plurality of membership ELIGIBLE to vote….so before you SAG die-hards crow about your brave stalwarts in defeat, better re-count the numbers and consider realty….IF you are capable of that.
Simple truth: DGA (like grownups) WGA (like Beverly Hills Bolsheviks, but eventually bowing to reality) and AFTRA have all dealt with the issues at hand and made a deal. Its a deal for 3 years, not 3 centuries. SAG, like a bunch of spoiled nincompoops, continues to diddle, twiddle, and fiddle…at the EXPENSE OF ITS MEMBERS and the rest of this town.
There’s no honor in being dramatically, pseudo-heroically, and utterly defeatedly WRONG. Grow up. OR vote in some grown-ups to run the show. 150,000 mostly-waiters-and-clerks “on strike” is nonsense, as usual….and the FIRST order of business SHOULD be to insist on “vesting” by actual minimal WORK in RECENT times to VOTE on contracts, as was proposed in the past.
Or didn’t you want to be taken seriously again after all?
Comment by JohnWayne — July 9, 2008 @ 10:20 am
Somebody ’splain this to me, willya?
Why is it wrong for newscasters, dancers, or others who actually WORK and give a PERFORMANCE and get paid for it to vote on a contract for a union that covers such work…..
But RIGHT for people who NEVER work and have NEVER worked in YEARS in ANY capacity that’s professional and gets paid for TO VOTE on a contract for a different union that covers such work?
Oh.
Wait.
I’m asking for sense.
I forgot. We’re talking about a bunch of actors who think they’re political geniuses because they auditioned to play one once on TV.
Never mind.
Comment by TruthHurtsSoWhat — July 9, 2008 @ 10:33 am
“As far as this AFTRA deal goes - the time has come for all of us disgusted with AFTRA to go fi-core en mass.”
What a load of crock! You want to kill ALL unions go Fi-Core! Yeah, remove yourself of the ability to vote, and shit in the throat of all the union members that went before you and sacrificed work so that you could get health coverage! You are a disgrace to the craft and to the very concept of solidarity!
Comment by Michael — July 9, 2008 @ 10:48 am
What’s a good deal? Is it one where everyone in the union has the right to make more and more money? Or is is one that encourages the studios and producers to hire more and more union actors?
We’re missing the real and gigantic issue here….
The real problem with SAG’s current deal is not wages or jurisdiction or gas money…it’s the fact that more than 85% of the union cannot get enough work to live on! SAG work is well compensated already…there’s just very little of it.
That’s the real problem. And fixing that might involve more cooperation and creativity than posturing and strike threats.
Comment by think about it — July 9, 2008 @ 10:55 am
Okay, here is what should happen. Accept the deal and then work like hell to decerify AFTRA for all actors. Every actor I know would vote to have SAG as their only union. Everyone now knows that AFTRA poaches shows and gives away residuals. Time to get rid of AFTRA. Let the broadcasters have it to themselves since they love to work non-union. Let’s get the ball rolling and get a petition out there. Once all actors choose SAG as their only union to be represented by then all the shows will have to have SAG contracts or get no actors. Although, they could choose to let radio jocks play the roles.
Comment by pepper — July 9, 2008 @ 11:00 am
Just to set things straight - the 62.4% yes vote was of the people voting, not the total AFTRA membership. I didn’t see any figure for the no vote but it would have been very close to 37.6% (since the only other option would have been to submit a blank ballot). Certainly not an overwhelming victory but not a squeaker either. SAG has only two options as I see it - (1)continue negotiating, get a few crumbs from management, cave in but call it a victory or (2)strike. First one seems much more likely than the second
Comment by richard — July 9, 2008 @ 11:07 am
AMPTP wrote: “which would give SAG members more than $250 million in additional compensation and important new media rights.”
While I understand $250 is a lot of money at most of our houses if delivered in a lump sum, how can the AMPTP tout it as some windfall for all SAG actors or even as fair compensation across the industry? The AMPTP shells out $20 million with ease to “Actor” Tom Hanks per picture, so how is a mere 12.5 times one person’s salary a fair compensation package for the other 119,999 members–even if it is an “increase.” In a world where $100 million budgets for ONE film are not uncommon, how is a $250 million increase for the entire membership something to brag about? And that’s just some random film numbers, let’s talk about TV. It’s insulting that the AMPTP comes up with such a weak figure and then thinks they can use it as positive PR. Don’t let them.
Comment by zackery — July 9, 2008 @ 11:11 am
It’s obvious to all but the self-deluded that Merger of SAG & AFTRA would have prevented and will ultimately prevent this kind of avoidable intra-union debacle that has screwed us actors royally this year.
But the majority of our Hollywood SAG “Membership First” negotiators are ANTI-MERGER (or say nonsense like “we want merger, just not THIS merger = elitist has-been hogwash.)
To steel your resolve even further to vote these “Membership First” nincompoops off the SAG Board in September, here’s what our current SAG Nat’l Exec Dir. ex-NFL’er Doug Allen said about merger at last Summer’s SAG Hollywood Membership meeting: “Merger is sort of like world peace. People like the idea, but the question is how do you go about it?”
Fire up that Search Committee, Kimosabee.
Comment by Ichbin Auch Einwerkungactor — July 9, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
Put it to a vote!
SAG’s negotiating team should present two options on a ballot upon which the general membership should vote.
l.) The AMPTP’s “last best final offer (whatever that means) with NONE of the additions that the SAG negotiators would like to see added.
2.) The AMPTP”S “last best final offer” WITH a list of revisions that they would like to have added to the contract.
Each SAG voting member should then be allowed to vote for #1 or #2. If they vote for #2, then they would be allowed to check in boxes of the additional terms that are most important to them (these would be amendments).
SAG leaders can tally the votes. If everyone votes for #1, then it is over. If the majority vote for #2, go back to the AMPTP with the results and a list in order of demand of the amendments the majority of members wanted added.
That way, SAG leaders put in the hands of all members the final outcome of these negotiations. This may help alleviate the obvious anger that some members are feeling toward their leadership and give the members back some control. That way SAG will get the contract its general membership feels it deserves. No more carping!!
Comment by democratic theory — July 9, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
Kevin dual holder,
Actually, that was the point I was making. I was making fun of the guy and his math, using something called “exaggeration.” Because he was just randomly choosing the numbers he wanted. But then you thought I was being serious and made fun of me - and called me a moron. Welcome to the world of irony, Kev. Good work.
You’re a special one.
Comment by Working actor #274 — July 9, 2008 @ 12:57 pm
SAG’s lack of empathy, fellow feeling, or even the barest historical understanding of AFTRA would be hilarious if it wasn’t so tragic.
But it does explain why SAG wasn’t able to negotiate together with AFTRA. And why AFTRA wisely decided to go their own way, get it done, and get their members back to work.
Comment by a suit — July 9, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
This is off topic a bit, but we’re so sick of seeing the same tired faces over and over in movies - Tom Hanks, George Clooney, Brad Pitt. We can’t even name a woman we’re sick of because women are ridiculously underused in film - though Jolie is fast approaching tiresome.
It would be nice to see new faces, interesting faces, spread the wealth , spread the opportunity, spread the creative possibilities.
Studios keep returning to the same overpaid stable of faces despite diminishing returns.
Even a rat knows not to keep returning to an empty source of food once it’s been tapped out.
Comment by 18-49 — July 9, 2008 @ 1:02 pm
Michael,
Yeah, I am going to go fi-core. I’m as union as union gets. I walked the line every day during the writer’s strike. I went to every rally. I marched downtown with the other unions.
But when a union becomes a tool for the business they are supposed to be fighting against, they cease to be relevant. AFTRA is no longer a useful union and actually do more harm than good for the middle class actor.
So, it’s time to go fi-core. And I’m not just going to stop with myself. I’m building a website as we speak and will be starting a movement to try to get others to join me.
Comment by Working actor #274 — July 9, 2008 @ 1:06 pm
I guess I too must be a vicious sadist, because I unequivocally agree that it was the “adult” DGA that showed the AMPTP how to screw the writers in the ass.
Comment by Lew Wasserman's ghost — July 9, 2008 @ 1:06 pm
Guess what? Actors, Writers-not-on-staff, and Directors and all their various covered positions are FREELANCERS, folks. They just work via collective bargaining to standardize their returns and get better benefits than they would in an every-person-for-themselves universe.
To say “The REAL PROBLEM is not enough work for all the members” or to complain because a few high-profile stars get big bucks which take up the lion’s share of all actor-employment revenues is just plain foolish.
Not only that, it ain’t gonna change. Anyone who joined a union in this town and paid an initiation fee and got a card and a book of rules and thought “Wow! I’m fixed for life with steady work now! I’ve arrived!” was delusional, and to whine because that isn’t what got negotiated is downright asinine.
As for this issue of multiple unions representing the same job function, mergers, etc. etc. sure…it would be a simpler, neater world if it wasn’t so, but it is also the real world we inhabit. I will remind you that in the past the DGA was the Screen Director’s Guild and merged with the Radio/TV folks who once had their own club. I will remind you that various job functions arising from new technology or practices have been bitterly fought over re. jurisdiction within the IA all through the history of our industry. I will remind you as well that an arbitrary, theoretical elitism that says that somebody who “performs” the “news” (which is mostly entertainment now anyhow, not news) for a regular paycheck and is seen by millions is somehow less legitimate than somebody who is an “actor” who got barely enough gigs to be Taft-Hartley’d and then slipped into oblivion except for freebie movie screenings and vocalism during contract talks is….well, ridiculous.
Since about 80% of everything online and in “new media” is done totally “non-union” independently anyhow, maybe the answer for SAG or AFTRA members who feel slighted by the rules agreed to in negotiations such as these is to quit their guild, work independently, or even buy a camera and some lights and a URL and put your own brand of genius out there for yourself? After all, it is what the music industry is coming to and what is killing off the major music labels and wiping out the ranks of their executive suites and A&R folks….you know, those evil exploiters of the artists who got villified all the time by music types once upon a time?
You might make zero from your craft that way–which for most of you is what you’re making now as you pursue your “day job” or do free or low/no pay theater. But you MIGHT just become the next viral video superstar, or get a gig making commercials out of it, or figure out a way to monetize your website via click-thru ads or….???
In short, the way the system works is the way it works. If you can’t stand that, go outside it and reinvent your OWN version of the wheel. Pick. Choose. But please, please, please, for the peace and quiet of our already disrupted and fractured town and industry AND to keep from further embarassing yourself and giving your profession an even worse reputation for unprofessionalism and childishness…..
STOP THE WHINING!
And GET REAL.
Thanks.
Comment by RealityCheck — July 9, 2008 @ 2:41 pm
A question for all you people strutting around and talking about going financial core in protest to this deal:
Why don’t you just RESIGN? Why the hedge of fi-core? Why haven’t you REALLY got the courage of your convictions? Nobody forced you to join ANY guild. Nobody’s forcing you to stay if you are that opposed to the way the club is run.
In fact, that’s the real solution: Everyone who is so absolutely sick and fed up with the leadership/direction of ANY of these guilds should just up and QUIT!
It will winnow out the whiners, reduce the percentage of unemployed, and generally focus the remainder into people who actually WANT to WORK and NEGOTIATE and make REAL progress for themselves, their families, and their industry.
But meanwhile, to quote the great performance moment in which Eli Wallach, as Tucco in “The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly” kills a procrastinating, whining, blabbing opponent: “IF you’re going to shoot, don’t talk, SHOOT!”
Quit. Or make it BETTER. Those are the only two HONORABLE choices.
Fi-Core is Whining is dishonorable is cowardly. Period.
Comment by Seeing Cowards — July 9, 2008 @ 2:56 pm
Anyone catch Rosenberg on The Business? What a stuttering, petty, useless twat. He can’t even admit to contradicting himself on qualified voting. Again, hope the junkies from The Soloist get active soon!
Comment by Topher Long — July 9, 2008 @ 3:00 pm
I guess I too must be a vicious sadist, because I unequivocally agree that it was the “adult” DGA that showed the AMPTP how to screw the writers in the ass.
Comment by Lew Wasserman’s ghost — July 9, 2008 @ 1:06 pm
No, just ignorant.
Comment by scott — July 9, 2008 @ 3:04 pm
This is just another “burst” from cyberspace, which amounts to nothing really except it gives me a chance to speak my peace. I have been a member of both AFTRA and SAG for over 30 years…a working actor for most of that time (really!). I am also a producer who has known how what it is like to work with SAG on deals and it is not fun, believe me..but I digresss. While I do not think the AFTRA deal was the best deal in the world, I voted for it. Here’s why? SAG has flat out blown this negotiation. They started by mouthing off to AFTRA oer a year ago, telling them they were bigger and deserved more say in negotiations. They didn’t keep their “enemy” close and now they have paid the price for it. “David” protected himself from “Goliath”. To say that AFTRA is a pawn of the AMPTP is pure bull. The pawn of the AMPTP as it turns out,is SAG. They came in like bullies, showed their colors right away and have no one but themselves to blame for what has happened. They were obvious. When more moderate working members tried to talk to them about affected voting so that those with the most to lose could have more of a say, these brilliant negotiators at SAG would not even let the people in the board room (bet a lot of you didn’t even know that). So it’s not WHAT SAG has fought for that has screwed them. It’s HOW they have gone about it. Whether you agree with the deal they struck or not, the DGA never acts like a bunch of kids throwing a temper tantrum and blaming everyone else when things go wrong. They know how to speak the language of business and they get it done. The WGA “patterned bargained” and followed suit and so now has AFTRA. DVD’s are DEAD in five years. Why are we even bothering talking about them? Why are we even focusing so much on dollar amounts of compensation we should received when we should be concentrating on ways to MONITOR usage so that we can even get those amounts. We were supposed to get that with the commericals strike and I’ve still not heard of its full implementation. Alright, I’m almost done..I’ll just say this one last thing. You don’t go into a gunfight with a knife. Translation: You don’t go into a negotiation without unity. It is no secret that SAG is an utter mess inside, administratively and politically. AFTRA has their own issues but SAG is the one gunning for people all over the place when they don’t have their own house in order. Fix that, then maybe the WHAT can take precedence over the HOW. Alright..commence firing on me now. I’m expecting it.
Comment by Are we there yet? — July 9, 2008 @ 3:23 pm
Seeing cowards,
Comment by Working actor #274 — July 9, 2008 @ 3:46 pm
“Are we there yet?” Is obviously an AMPTP troll. Who else would come up with such an elegant argument against SAG leadership? The SAG members on this site are like the Arabs who insisted that Israel hit the twin towers, cause, after all, how could we be sophisticated enough to do that? Face it SAG trolls, the smart people see that the emperor has no clothes. Name calling without facts to back it up; well, it’s what children do. Grow up, your Union needs a few adults.
Comment by Scott — July 9, 2008 @ 3:57 pm
Are we there yet?-
Amen brother!
SAG needs to take responsibility. It’s THEIR negotiation with THEIR elected officials. AFTRA, DGA, WGA, and IA didn’t elect SAG leaders,
SAG did.
I think that the membership should boot leadership out right now. Who cares if they have another election in a few months. Start cleaning house and start right now. Why wait for them to screw something else up? They have done nothing but harm the union and the industry.
The entire membership is complicit if they do nothing but wait for another election. At least it sends the message , “yeah we’re gonna take the deal, but we are NEVER going to let this happen again!”.
The membership wont do it though. They don’t have the balls to stand up and take responsibility. They’ve already proven that.
Comment by Coup De Tet! — July 9, 2008 @ 4:20 pm
The person posting as Lew Wasserman’s Ghost is an idiot. In no way did the DGA “show the AMPTP” how to “screw the writers in the ass.” By boning the writers, the DGA showed AFTRA how to screw SAG in the ass. The AMPTP was merely the beneficiary of all the hot guild-on-guild action.
Comment by Walter Reuther's ghost — July 9, 2008 @ 4:21 pm
if sag goes on strike, which one of the newscasters or djs that are covered by the aftra deal actually cover their whining?
Comment by aaron — July 9, 2008 @ 5:07 pm
100% of film, and, 95% of primetime. SAG requests (bullies?) AFTRA to maybe agree to some form of proportional representation - a little reality check perhaps, given the numbers? - to not take up 50% of the seats at the negotiating table. AFTRA throws a hissy fit. AFTRA trumps up SAG “raiding” “The Bold and the Beautiful” in a completely transparent attempt to create a conflict (why would SAG want to organize a soap when they cover 100% of film and 95% of primetime?) where there wasn’t one. AFTRA has been looking for a way to screw SAG for a long time. Two lost merger votes, despite the millions of dollars of members dues money spent by SAG (Melissa Gilbert) and AFTRA to push it through. SAG members listen to the interminable pitch, and vote it down, Twice. Seems they want to be a union of actors for actors. Who knew? So, AFTRA does an end run, right into the AMPTP’s best laid plans, and the AMPTP delivers a quick easy contract. Surprise! The holes in new media, which the producers will begin to exploit immediately, eventually threaten residuals as we know it, the DVD residual cave, the inferior minimum raises that don’t track the consumer price yearly rise, the meager protections on product placement, the list goes on.
Since we’re all on this particular blog, I suggest some people go back and read parts 1 and 2 of Nikki’s posts regarding the whole debacle. To say her reporting was damning to AFTRA is putting it mildly. Are we going to engage in some serious revisionist history now? That kind of thing will come back to haunt you, once the “we fucked SAG!” celebration cools. Then you’ll all be left with the cold hard reality that you screwed SAG with underhanded tactics and accepted an inferior deal with holes in it a mile wide, while totally conceding on other points.
Basically a 60/40 split? Sounds to me like SAG just ran out of clock in their rushed effort (because of AFTRA’s behavior) to educate dual card holders why this was a shitty deal and should be voted down. I bet if they had another couple weeks, this would have very possibly turned out another way. And, I have a strong feeling SAG’s not going to let AFTRA fuck them without a fight.
Congratulations AFTRA! You’ve screwed the pooch! Have a good time doing your end zone dance, cause a reckoning is coming.
Comment by Voice of D — July 9, 2008 @ 5:31 pm
Voice of D-
Gosh if they only had a few more weeks….. Maybe if they started on time instead of stalling?
Sag has 95% of prime-time. You mean they USED TO HAVE 95% of prime-time. Studios are right now telling producers to go AFTRA.
So wait around and screw this one up too. Screw this one up by looking at everyone but yourselves. Screw this one up by letting the same failed leaders take you down with them. Screw this up by blogging instead of getting a quorum together for the meeting so you can oust the bums!
Guess what you need 75% to get a strike authorization but you can’t get it. The numbers aren’t there! You don’t need 75% for a quorum to get them out of office. The only opposition is the 4500 who signed onto the websites propaganda.
You keep right along blaming everyone else. I now know what “ME FIRST” really means, “Screw Me First!”. Everyone who continues to let them negotiate even as much as how drinking water is delivered into the building is a sucker.
Comment by coup De Tet! — July 9, 2008 @ 6:06 pm
Good post, Voice of D. Assertions backed up with historical examples. But I must disagree with the fact that AFTRA is responsible for this mess. SAG leadership, at some point, must take responsibility. Constantly blaming others is what losers do.
Comment by scott — July 9, 2008 @ 6:32 pm
So the AFTRA deal stands, and from this Background Actor’s perspective it sucks. Unless SAG is willing and able to negotiate for some MEANINGFUL concessions for Background Actors…$250 for 8 (that’s less than $1M off a major movie-take it out of Clooney’s $20M), double time at 10, significantly more guaranteed slots for movies and TV (not one more-thanks a lot AFTRA), nighttime and weekend bumps, featured bumps, and a realistic mileage allowance, I say send out a STRIKE VOTE…I’ll vote yes!
Comment by Robert — July 9, 2008 @ 7:04 pm
Never mind dual card holding. I’m glad I got dual citizenship. So while everyone here is having employment problems, I’ll go work somewhere else. Enjoy your summer everyone.
Comment by sam — July 9, 2008 @ 7:37 pm
Robert-
$250 for 8 and double time after 10? Are you dreaming? You want $31.25 an hour to have social time while we are setting up shots only to be told to be quiet for the 5th time? $31.25? The film loader doesn’t make that, and they are in charge of the negative for the days work. Grips don’t make that but they are in charge of safety rigging that huge silk over your head from a crane. The production coordinator doesn’t make that, yet they organize all the elements for the days work.
Background is the most easily replaceable on the set. Even PA’s are harder to replace. Those PA’s bust their ass and work twice the hours you do for a flat rate. You just stand there and most of the time you slow production down, not make it more efficient. Why do you think we “hold” you outside the set until the last minute? But you think you should make more than the crew? For what? Talking during shot set ups? Trying to get phone numbers like its some big dating service with a catered lunch? Go F yourself!!!
Comment by coup De Tet! — July 9, 2008 @ 7:50 pm
Hey Robert
Your dreaming. Did you think that this contract was going to help the poor background artist in any way.
When there was a screen extras guild their own excesses doomed them. A eight by ten walking glossy was making much more than a crew person on a day. Sad it was.Then again that was the 80’s
Comment by just a thought — July 9, 2008 @ 7:59 pm
Robert must be Jessy S
Comment by just a thought — July 9, 2008 @ 8:03 pm
coup De Tet!,
The only thing I know for sure is that when you BTL guys are looking for support, don’t look this way. I’d say if you ever strike, but with Tommy Short as your leader, you’re worse off than anyone in this business.
Keep talking about the other presidents. Tommy’s the worst. I think he actually may live inside Counter’s colon.
Comment by Working actor — July 10, 2008 @ 2:10 am
Blaming AFTRA! Calling for a strike! Demanding a public debate! Blaming the DGA! Calling for new leadership! Blaming the WGA! Going fi-core! Demanding more respect for extras!
Exciting dramatic stuff!
Way more interesting than just sitting down with the big dogs, hammering out a deal, and getting back to work.
Real life sucks.
Comment by a suit — July 10, 2008 @ 8:41 am
working actor-
Get you head out of your ass. This isn’t about any other union but SAG. This is about your deal going on right now. IA has already made their deal, so has every other union in the business. You keep looking at other people and blame them. You can’t accept responsibility for what YOUR union has done to YOU. If everyone went away and no other person blogged about this issue, take away the trolls, shills, and bloggers you would still be standing there with your pants around your ankles. Now that you’ve got your pud in your hands, who are you going to blame now? Don’t tell me that SAG ran out of mirrors!!!!
Comment by coup De Tet! — July 10, 2008 @ 9:24 am
Hey Working Actor, so the best you can say about your leadership is that Tommy Short is worse? You must be very proud.
Comment by Scott — July 10, 2008 @ 10:56 am
those figures you quote..100% and 95%. well aftra has a deal and you don’t and those numbers just changed and now there are choices for the producers to make and the only ones writing here will be the disgruntled SAG actors that did not get the part at the audition.
Comment by Laughing at the idiots — July 10, 2008 @ 12:16 pm
Scott and coup De Tet,
First, Scott, I never said any such thing. Your spin is boring and ignorant. Besides starting too late in the process of organizing, I don’t have a big problem with Rosenberg. I support the attack on AFTRA’s shit contract and I personally asked Rosenberg to move to have AFTRA thrown out of SAG’s offices. If AFTRA is such an awesome union, it can survive without handouts.
I’m a member of three unions, WGA, AFTRA and SAG. I work regularly as an actor and writer. The only president and union that regularly accomplishes nothing is AFTRA.
Coup,
I’m not blaming anyone. I work under AFTRA contracts and they are shit. I, because i am not retarded, recognize that this was a fight for the long term, not the short. This was about the internet. What AFTRA just gave up will devastate actors for years to come. Reardon is a waste of skin. It’s not “just about SAG” because AFTRA just failed actors like myself miserably. Something you are used to working under contracts “won” by Tommy Short.
Comment by Working actor — July 10, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Working Actor Said: “Tommy’s the worst. I think he may actually live inside Nike Counter’s colon.”
Then I said: “Hey Working Actor, so the best you can say about your leadership is that Tommy Short is worse?”
Then Working Actor Said: “Your spin is boring and ignorant”.
Hey Working Actor: I, boring and ignorant? Do you ever re-read the crap you spew on this site?
Comment by scott — July 10, 2008 @ 3:16 pm
working actor-
Say what you will but heres some reality for you. Sag will take this contract wether or not they strike or not. It’s just a question of when.
If you want to follow Alan as he stutters your way to absolute unemployment then go right ahead. Strike and get more shows to go AFTRA plus send more shows to Canada. When have the actors EVER been succesful in any strike action? NEVER!!! The commercial strike was a laughable failure. Go right ahead. Im sure Alan is your secret weapon, a man so competant that you blindly follow him into oblivion.
Im prepping a feature to be shot in Canada right now. Where should i send the postcard?
Comment by Coup De Tet! — July 10, 2008 @ 4:35 pm